12a CarTech drawthrough HELP!!
02-04-09, 10:52 AM
#101
It RUNS!!! ... kinda
Got it running tonight. Used an old carb which I think needs to be rebuilt... it ran pretty rough. Might stick my Carter carb back on it as I know it ran OK.
I had to cut my warm up short as I have a massive oil leak. I was afraid it was my oil return, but, looks like my new Mazda OEM oil pan gasket split... GAH, I must have over-tightened. The Anti-Christ of an oil pan strikes again... DAMN I hate taking that thing off. I think I'm gonna replace it with a Black Dragon gasket as they have a metal "insert" to prevent splitting. That's what I had before and it worked great.
Under idle/no load, will you get positive pressure? Or just vacuum? Even when revving it...
Does the car need to be under load to build boost?
Got it running tonight. Used an old carb which I think needs to be rebuilt... it ran pretty rough. Might stick my Carter carb back on it as I know it ran OK.
I had to cut my warm up short as I have a massive oil leak. I was afraid it was my oil return, but, looks like my new Mazda OEM oil pan gasket split... GAH, I must have over-tightened. The Anti-Christ of an oil pan strikes again... DAMN I hate taking that thing off. I think I'm gonna replace it with a Black Dragon gasket as they have a metal "insert" to prevent splitting. That's what I had before and it worked great.
Under idle/no load, will you get positive pressure? Or just vacuum? Even when revving it...
Does the car need to be under load to build boost?
Nice to hear U got it running! Got a tip on the oil pan. Mine has been holding solid for 4 years now. The torque on the bolts is VERY low. 3.6ftlb or something like that. When I had the pan removed I tapped it out as straight as possible with a hammer and bucking bar. (U may have to do this again if you gorilla torque’d it.)
Then roughed up the mating surface of the engine and pan with some 140 grit sand paper. Clean both surfaces (extremely well, no oil!) with brake cleaner. Then put a light bead of 100% silicone on both sides of the gasket before installing. Torque in X pattern all around to 3-4ftlbs. Let sit for 24 hours.
02-04-09, 01:55 PM
#102
OK...
Oil pan gasket ordered from Black Dragon - $21
Carb renew kit, secondary metering block gasket and vacuum springs ordered from Summit Racing - $69
... GAH... Another $90 sunk into this project and I still need to buy a case of brake cleaner to clean the oil pan and carb.. LOL
Oil pan gasket ordered from Black Dragon - $21
Carb renew kit, secondary metering block gasket and vacuum springs ordered from Summit Racing - $69
... GAH... Another $90 sunk into this project and I still need to buy a case of brake cleaner to clean the oil pan and carb.. LOL
02-04-09, 02:45 PM
#103
OK...
Oil pan gasket ordered from Black Dragon - $21
Carb renew kit, secondary metering block gasket and vacuum springs ordered from Summit Racing - $69
... GAH... Another $90 sunk into this project and I still need to buy a case of brake cleaner to clean the oil pan and carb.. LOL
Oil pan gasket ordered from Black Dragon - $21
Carb renew kit, secondary metering block gasket and vacuum springs ordered from Summit Racing - $69
... GAH... Another $90 sunk into this project and I still need to buy a case of brake cleaner to clean the oil pan and carb.. LOL
02-04-09, 06:02 PM
#107
8007 Holley specs
Just dug through all my material to find the carb jet specs.
Primary Jet 051
Secondary Jet 054
Power Valve 8.5"
I don't know which Holley rebuild kit you should buy, the Holley website should tell you exactly which one to order.
I'm just using the timing recommendations listed on the Cartech instructions.
System runs very well and is almost factory smooth when warmed up. I don't know where you live but even in the summer her in Toronto you have to bring the car to operating temperatures before you can drive off smoothly. In colder weather I plug in the oil pan heater to shorten that time and make starting easier.
Jim
Primary Jet 051
Secondary Jet 054
Power Valve 8.5"
I don't know which Holley rebuild kit you should buy, the Holley website should tell you exactly which one to order.
I'm just using the timing recommendations listed on the Cartech instructions.
System runs very well and is almost factory smooth when warmed up. I don't know where you live but even in the summer her in Toronto you have to bring the car to operating temperatures before you can drive off smoothly. In colder weather I plug in the oil pan heater to shorten that time and make starting easier.
Jim
02-04-09, 09:06 PM
#109
I need a new user title
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Yaizu, Japan
Posts: 2,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alright, I should have said "to reach full boost".
On the other hand, revving it in neutral does put some load on the engine. What I said was technically correct, just not very useful.
On the other hand, revving it in neutral does put some load on the engine. What I said was technically correct, just not very useful.
02-04-09, 09:47 PM
#110
Like I said earlier, it sounded like my wastegate was opening at partial throttle. I'm thinking i need to adjust it. Anyone know about how much force it should take to push open the swing arm on the wastegate valve if i'm targeting 6-10 psi?
Maybe i should wait to see what happens once I get everything back together and on a test drive.
Maybe i should wait to see what happens once I get everything back together and on a test drive.
02-08-09, 09:57 PM
#113
Its alive!!!
Well I put a new oil pan gasket in and rebuilt the carb.
Got it started today and the damn thing wouldn't idle. I tried about everything. I finally threw my old Carter 500cfm carb back on it and ***purrrrr*** runs like a kitten. Damn Holley, wish I knew what was wrong... runs the same now as before the rebuild. Like the idle circuit isn't working. Guess I need to rebuild the Carter now.. grrr
Also... NO OIL LEAKS.. Woot!!!
I locked the dizzy at 10-12* Leading and 0-2* Trailing.
I still need to install my new fuel pump and filter.
THE BAD... when installing my boost/vacuum gauge my friend dropped it and the needle went to ~4 psi.. so, its all out of calibration. I called Summit and will be ordering an Autometer gauge.
Hopefully by the end of this week I will be tweaking my wastegate linkage to dial in some boosty ;p
Got it started today and the damn thing wouldn't idle. I tried about everything. I finally threw my old Carter 500cfm carb back on it and ***purrrrr*** runs like a kitten. Damn Holley, wish I knew what was wrong... runs the same now as before the rebuild. Like the idle circuit isn't working. Guess I need to rebuild the Carter now.. grrr
Also... NO OIL LEAKS.. Woot!!!
I locked the dizzy at 10-12* Leading and 0-2* Trailing.
I still need to install my new fuel pump and filter.
THE BAD... when installing my boost/vacuum gauge my friend dropped it and the needle went to ~4 psi.. so, its all out of calibration. I called Summit and will be ordering an Autometer gauge.
Hopefully by the end of this week I will be tweaking my wastegate linkage to dial in some boosty ;p
02-10-09, 10:32 AM
#114
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delhi, CA
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
turbo VW
More info specs on the setup please!! What is the engine size?
That looks like a 3310 Holley 750cfm with vac secondaries. Any issues with it?
What is the turbo? How much boost are you running? Any water injection?
What is the coolside shaft seal?
Looks like open exhaust! How loud is that puppy??
Looks like a very well thought out system.
That looks like a 3310 Holley 750cfm with vac secondaries. Any issues with it?
What is the turbo? How much boost are you running? Any water injection?
What is the coolside shaft seal?
Looks like open exhaust! How loud is that puppy??
Looks like a very well thought out system.
I know this is not a rotor motor bt it is a draw through setup. I can say from experince that the intake charge is ICE COLD on a cold start up. I am in Midland GA about miffle of the state and you could not touch the intake between the carb and Turbo and this is even after drivinig it for a while... Here is a pic of my turbo beetle.. Made 471 rwhp when it broke the right rear axle in a 3rd gear dyno pull at 5500 rpms.. Could have made 500.. And as far as putting an Intercooler on a draw through... No way in hell I would do that.. It is a bomb waiting to explode with fuel sitting there.
02-11-09, 08:48 AM
#115
update - 2/11/09
Well, I've had the fuel pump/filter (boy, that was fun installing) and choke cable hooked up for about 2 days now. It's SOOOOO much easier to start with a choke... I would say it starts up VERY easy now. And... still no oil leaks.. Woot!! LOL
I should be getting me replacement boost gauge from Summit today and I will be installing it this afternoon. I know she is boosting... it pulls like a Son-of-a-bi-Ah-tch.
I will update once I know exactly where my boost is...
Laterz
I should be getting me replacement boost gauge from Summit today and I will be installing it this afternoon. I know she is boosting... it pulls like a Son-of-a-bi-Ah-tch.
I will update once I know exactly where my boost is...
Laterz
02-11-09, 10:23 AM
#116
Well, I've had the fuel pump/filter (boy, that was fun installing) and choke cable hooked up for about 2 days now. It's SOOOOO much easier to start with a choke... I would say it starts up VERY easy now. And... still no oil leaks.. Woot!! LOL
I should be getting me replacement boost gauge from Summit today and I will be installing it this afternoon. I know she is boosting... it pulls like a Son-of-a-bi-Ah-tch.
I will update once I know exactly where my boost is...
Laterz
I should be getting me replacement boost gauge from Summit today and I will be installing it this afternoon. I know she is boosting... it pulls like a Son-of-a-bi-Ah-tch.
I will update once I know exactly where my boost is...
Laterz
U get your WB02 installed? What do your A/F readings look like under boost?
U know harbor freight sells boost guages for $18 now!
I'd hold off on the boost. Not knowing what your boost is sounds like a good way to pop that little motor quick!
02-11-09, 02:35 PM
#117
Wideband installed... Runs pretty rich on WOT ~11.5-12.5:1 clear to redline. Cruise ~15:1
Ordered an Autometer 2 1/16" ES vac/boost gauge and should be getting it today.
Didnt know about harbor frieght... Dont think i want to trust boost to an $18 pos gauge though.
Ordered an Autometer 2 1/16" ES vac/boost gauge and should be getting it today.
Didnt know about harbor frieght... Dont think i want to trust boost to an $18 pos gauge though.
02-11-09, 10:48 PM
#120
update ... 2/11/09
New Boost gauge installed. Tweaked the carb and now running 10.5-11.5:1 @ WOT. Was hitting about 10-12 psi once spooled. Almost hit 15psi so I decided to go home and check my wastegate swing valve as I could hear a lot of noise from the dump pipe.
GAH... My wastegate swing valve is sticking again. I live close to Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR and plan on hitting them up for a replacement swingvalve assembly or repairing the one I have.
GAH... My wastegate swing valve is sticking again. I live close to Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR and plan on hitting them up for a replacement swingvalve assembly or repairing the one I have.
02-12-09, 03:01 PM
#121
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delhi, CA
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
drawthrough
Sir:
First thing is to use the search button.
Next would be buy Hugh Macinnes's book "Turbochargers".
Then buy Corky Bell's book"Maximum Boost".
Once you have the basics and have a plan for what you want the car to do you can narrow down the type of system you want.
Many choose to do a blowthrough system with a boost prepared carb.
Blowthrough with fuel injection would be ideal, but you would need a megasquirt or other standalone FI controller.
Both the above can be used with an intercooler while a blowthrough is not generally intercooled for a number of reasons (see the books).
Drawthrough can be done more cheaply and is a bit more simple.
You will be limited to about 7 pounds of boost (possibly 10 pounds with an alcohol/water injection system). Custom turbo manifold will be needed along with suitable intake and air ducting. THERE IS NO "KIT" FOR THIS
See table 8 on page 59 of Hugh Macinnes's book for a comparison of Blowthrough to Drawthrough systems.
Hope this helps
First thing is to use the search button.
Next would be buy Hugh Macinnes's book "Turbochargers".
Then buy Corky Bell's book"Maximum Boost".
Once you have the basics and have a plan for what you want the car to do you can narrow down the type of system you want.
Many choose to do a blowthrough system with a boost prepared carb.
Blowthrough with fuel injection would be ideal, but you would need a megasquirt or other standalone FI controller.
Both the above can be used with an intercooler while a blowthrough is not generally intercooled for a number of reasons (see the books).
Drawthrough can be done more cheaply and is a bit more simple.
You will be limited to about 7 pounds of boost (possibly 10 pounds with an alcohol/water injection system). Custom turbo manifold will be needed along with suitable intake and air ducting. THERE IS NO "KIT" FOR THIS
See table 8 on page 59 of Hugh Macinnes's book for a comparison of Blowthrough to Drawthrough systems.
Hope this helps
02-12-09, 03:20 PM
#122
Although there are no currently available kits, there are still some vintage drawthrough & blowthrough kits which were sold in the '80s... They are getting hard to find.
The old drawthrough kits generally come in two styles. One which utilizes the stock intake manifold and one which doesnt (see above posts in my this thread for pics)
I know that CarTech also made a BLOWTHROUGH KIT back in the day... I have only seen a couple of old ads for these and they are pretty rare
The concensious generally is if you have a 1st gen turbo, there is some considerable custom fabrication involved.
02-13-09, 05:58 AM
#124
New Boost gauge installed. Tweaked the carb and now running 10.5-11.5:1 @ WOT. Was hitting about 10-12 psi once spooled. Almost hit 15psi so I decided to go home and check my wastegate swing valve as I could hear a lot of noise from the dump pipe.
GAH... My wastegate swing valve is sticking again. I live close to Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR and plan on hitting them up for a replacement swingvalve assembly or repairing the one I have.
GAH... My wastegate swing valve is sticking again. I live close to Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR and plan on hitting them up for a replacement swingvalve assembly or repairing the one I have.
02-13-09, 11:33 PM
#125
Problem Solved
Wastegate problem fixed. The flapper is welded to the shaft which was making a fix more complicated.
I ended up taking the wastegate swing swing valve housing to Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR. They cleaned it torched it to burn out any rust and let it soak overnight in acid to get rid of any corrosion. This morning (after soaking in a neutralizer) they bead-blasted the gate, re-torched it to burn-out any bead media which might have worked its way into the shaft than oiled it.... Flops around freely now... WOOT!!!
They also trued up my mounting surfaces while they were at it.
I am very pleased with their work.
Without an the exhaust leaking past the valve, the car sounds SOOO much better and you can hear the turbo whine a bit when it spools with a load WOOSH when the wastegate opens
I adjusted the wastegate linkage to let-off at 10psi and tweaked the carb again to run at 11.5-11.8:1 at WOT.
I ended up taking the wastegate swing swing valve housing to Bell Turbo in Corvallis, OR. They cleaned it torched it to burn out any rust and let it soak overnight in acid to get rid of any corrosion. This morning (after soaking in a neutralizer) they bead-blasted the gate, re-torched it to burn-out any bead media which might have worked its way into the shaft than oiled it.... Flops around freely now... WOOT!!!
They also trued up my mounting surfaces while they were at it.
I am very pleased with their work.
Without an the exhaust leaking past the valve, the car sounds SOOO much better and you can hear the turbo whine a bit when it spools with a load WOOSH when the wastegate opens
I adjusted the wastegate linkage to let-off at 10psi and tweaked the carb again to run at 11.5-11.8:1 at WOT.