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Hello
I am a longtime observe / reader of the forum but just joined up to hear the opinion of the collective.
I am looking at a 1980 RX-7 with 100,000 miles. The gentleman selling it is an older retired engineer and he has owned the car 31 years. He has the manuals etc and has obviously taken good care of the car. In fact I think he was offended by some of the questions I asked. The car is in excellent condition. $2000 Totally original with the exception of a K&N style unshrouded air filter and a Racing Beat header / exhaust. It has been in storage and off the road for 3 years..
He has it parked outside the storage facility and I have been able to look it over without any supervision. When the owner and I went to see the car together the engine would not turn over. The owner hooked up to his own car to the RX-7, bypassing the battery, lights went up and down, horn worked etc . When the key is turned there is a click and nothing happens. The owner took out the spark plugs but still nothing. Back story, the owner of the storage facility drove the car a few hundred feet to where it is parked now. He used his own battery and said the car drove fine.. Since that day, the owner has installed his own battery freshly off a charger which he had at his home but still no luck getting the engine to turn over.
Would you buy this or take a pass. ? I have done some research and see it could something very simple but maybe not. Of course I have not seen or heard engine run but this man is very honest and says all is good. I know there will be some suggestions of doing some form of diagnosis or mechanical checks but I do not feel this man will be open to that. He is a bit elderly, a proud engineer and getting rid of this car is a big milestone in his life. He just wants to sell and be done with it.
i appreciate all opinions!
thanks
Post some pictures. It might be worth the asking price even with a bad engine. When buying a car, the only thing you can be certain of is the cars current condition as it sits. Without being about to do any type of troubleshooting, your options a limited.
Hi and Welcome
I am assuming at this point that when you say the engine "won't turn over", you mean the starter is not cranking it? Where I am going with this is to see if the engine itself will even ROTATE. We need to determine that it has not seized in some manner that defeats the starter. What you should do is try to HAND crank the engine to see if it will spin. This can be done with a ...19mm IIRC... socket on a 1/2 drive. You want to turn the engine CLOCKWISE on the MAIN PULLEY (below fan)
The point here is to make sure the motor is free-turning. It only requires a partial turn to sense this is OK.
Now, even if it does not manually turn, that does not necessarily mean the engine is permanently seized. If incorrectly stored and sitting for some time, it may well be something simple like carbon lock, where there is some small deposit in the combustion chamber that is preventing rotation. There have been instances where such RX's have been bought and with some additives, loosened back up and freely rotate again with no problems. Of course, if you purchase the car and do not absolutely know that, then understandably, you should pay less for the car. A LOT less, since the possibility of needing a rebuild will put a serious dent in value (unless, say, the car is in otherwise spectacular condition cosmetically...??)
There is one other possibility to. If the engine does rotate freely, you could try to TOW start it. Nothing lost in trying this, but of course, we do not know it there is power going to the spark plugs, if in fact there is no juice to crank the starter. Cars with fussy starters/power often fire right up under a Tow.
Other random thoughts:
Try a NEW battery. If the original is in a weakened state, then it will not have any torque power to crank. Rotaries need a STRONG battery to start!!
(this again will be over-ridden with a TOW start, since the battery may have power to energize the ignition system).
Make sure the battery cables are TIGHT and corrosion-free. I would spend the $5 and buy a battery terminal cleaning tool and really clean up the connectors and the battery posts. And eyeball/hand-check the battery leads all the way back to the starter to be sure they are secure. most of the cables are visible down to the starter. Neg ground too! Note there are TWO places the neg cable anchor/ground to the car, at the fender behind the battery and again at the main junction at the engine/transmission mounting point behind/below the oil filter tower.
Of course, all this goes on with a seller who seems a bit unsympathetic to fiddling! A bit odd I know, but I have dealt with eccentric old gents and their "pet" cars too. It may require stating what you (very reasonably!) require to feel confident about buying the car and then just back off and let him think about it a while. For folks like him, if you are genuine in wanting to give the car a good home and a "new" life, that is what is most important to these owners when they finally consider selling. Its not the money so much, but that it will be in good hands. Then just keep in touch with him. Patience here can be rewarding to.
Keep us posted. 1980 is a GREAT year for the RX7 series. Classic looks and trim that only the first 2 yrs had, plus the perk of being de-bugged a bit over the initial run of 1979 RX7s, with some nice improvements. I am hopelessly bias in that statement...
Stu Aull
80GS
AZ
Last edited by 7aull; 09-30-18 at 02:11 AM.
Reason: update
For 2K if it may be worth it if the shell and interior are excellent. If the owner is telling the truth, then its probably flooded and will need to be deflooded. Also if the gas is too old, it will gum up stuff and sitting for 3 years can do that.
thanks for the replies. Sorry about the pictures that do not work.
Don't like it when a thread on a forum is just left hanging so here is an update.
I was taking the advice of 7aull and developing a relationship and being patient. The owner called me this weekend. Story goes like this - the "young lad" who works for the storage place was the person who drove the car to where it is parked . He says he followed the instructions he was given. Start the car using the choke. Let the car warm up until the choke pulls itself in. Said it ran fine.
Now the engine will not turn over. In the past week the owner had the "young lad" come out and show him what he did. Then he pulled the spark plugs and added some sort of oil or additive that had the word "miracle" on the label and let it soak in for a couple of days. No change. Next was trying to hand crank the engine using the the socket and ratchet method.He removed the fan to do this. Still no change. So the owner feels that the engine is seized somehow and is now a project car - as in engine transplant. Not what I am looking for. If the engine could be hand cranked I would probably go for it. Too bad because the rest of the car is a museum piece.
Thanks KansasCityREPO - "the only thing you can be certain of is the cars current condition as it sits " is a good line . I will credit you when I use it in the future.
Thanks 7aull - that was a long reply you sent with a lot of good information and I know a note like that takes time - a valuable resource
Don't give up. Since the owner has come to the realization this is now a project car, and if you're in the market for a project car, you might be able to get this much cheaper. The value now ALL depends on the condition of the body and interior. And don't give up on the engine just yet. Pouring some auto-trans fluid or SeaForm down the carb and spark plug holes MAY free it up. I bought my early VIN 1979 for just over $1000 and it's a gem. Hadn't been ran in over twenty years.
If the body is not rotted and and the interior is good, offer him $500 and go from there.
The "miracle" oil could have been Marvel Mystery Oil. It's red like ATF and is commonly used to try and lubricate and unstick engines. Personally, I find it hard to believe that if the car ran fine and drove to it's current resting place, that it's totally froze up after just a couple years. If the car is in overall excellent condition as you indicated and he was only asking $2000, you could probably get it for half that or less if the seller believes the engine is froze up. Even if the engine is a total loss (which I doubt) you could probably make a small profit just parting out the body and interior.
Interesting what an expert notices that a noob misses. There is a body side moulding there but maybe incorrect. I had noticed that the 79/80’s had a thinner moulding than later years but now when I look online this one is definitely different. Maybe a difference on Canadian models ? I certainly do like the smaller moulding and the 79/80 wheels. We all know the Mazda Miata is inspired by Lotus Elan. Does anyone think this car was inspired by Lotus Elan Plus 2S.
Car was moved to this spot for visibility from highway. Always been stored indoors.
Enjoying the comments, interest and different points of view.
Interesting what an expert notices that a noob misses. There is a body side moulding there but maybe incorrect. I had noticed that the 79/80’s had a thinner moulding than later years but now when I look online this one is definitely different. Maybe a difference on Canadian models ? I certainly do like the smaller moulding and the 79/80 wheels. We all know the Mazda Miata is inspired by Lotus Elan. Does anyone think this car was inspired by Lotus Elan Plus 2S.
Car was moved to this spot for visibility from highway. Always been stored indoors.
Enjoying the comments, interest and different points of view.
i think Mazda was looking at a Lancia Stratos more than the lotus
This car was originally black? I may be wrong, but I thought black was introduced in 1980 on the LS (Leather Sport) special model. 1000 LS's in white, 1000 in black and 500 in gold. What color is the interior? Are the seats cloth or leather? The mirror looks LS-ish too but the rims are silver instead of gold. Does it still have an original spare?
Burgundy/red cloth seats, carpet, doors. Black dash.leather steering wheel. It has original unused silver alloy wheel spare.
Leather seats and gold wheels are too fancy and expensive for Canadians haha !
Sounds like the motor is carbon locked. After sitting for an extended period and starting it up carbon flakes break of the inside of the combustion chamber and get wedged, locking the motor. The Marvel Mystery oil works over time to soften and break up the carbon flakes. Takes a lot of patience but the motors can be saved. I worked one daily with MM oil and hand cranking back and forth. Took 3 weeks of this and finally was able to spin it with the starter to the point that the carbon/oil slurry came out the plug holes. Have also seen this process take out the water seals and break apex seals....
For some reason I keep coming back to this car despite the engine issues.
Last question. I am interested in learning to be a wrench turner. Not my family background / heritage. I would be growing a new branch on the family tree Just got my first garage and I am close to retirement age. Does the collective think a car like this could be a successful learning experience for a noob. Is an engine rebuild doable in terms of parts and tools necessary ?
I believe you can do what you put your mind to. Being interested and motivated is the key. The parts and knowledge are still out there. A rotary is just a different way from a piston engine to compress fuel and oxygen and light it on fire. Like eating an elephant, it can be done, one bite at a time, if you have the mind to.
For some reason I keep coming back to this car despite the engine issues.
Last question. I am interested in learning to be a wrench turner. Not my family background / heritage. I would be growing a new branch on the family tree Just got my first garage and I am close to retirement age. Does the collective think a car like this could be a successful learning experience for a noob. Is an engine rebuild doable in terms of parts and tools necessary ?
Hellya! you are describing ME to a "T". Here is one of the beauties of a car this vintage : this was pretty much nearing the end of simple, owner maintained cars. And I think the RX7 (esp 78-80 SA, but am 'somewhat' biased) is about as tinker-toy simple as they can be. Everything is pretty much laid out and easy to get to, with even a modest set of tools. Beyond the engine itself (more on that below) the mechanicals are, if anything, OVER simple (as befits a car built on a budget). This is not necessarily a bad thing because, again, a home-brewed mechanic/owner can do most everything. Certainly the routine stuff. I would suggest the oil filter location is a nice symbol of just how simple and thought-out these cars are: its sitting there right up on top. Suspension: simple. Cooling system: BONE simple. Interior: simple. All accessories on the motor: sitting right there to wrench. I can go on but you get the point. You can just about take apart the whole car with a set of 5 sockets and matching wrenches. And a philips screwdriver...
When I bought my SA (2003) I knew virtually nothing other than how to drain the oil or drop in a spark plug. Last year I pulled, rebuilt, installed, and got running (!!) a 12A engine. (with an epic amount of great assist from How-2 DVDs and people in the Know). I am entirely self-taught. On my SA.
That is a credit to the CAR - not me. These really are a pleasure to work on.
Now having ranted about all that, there are of course, WAYS things should be done correctly, as with any mechanical conveyance! But the knowledge base here on the Forum is HUGE. And there is plenty of material here and else where to guide you thru most any circumstance.
So that is the Long Winded version of Yes You Can (be a successful noob mechanic with an RX7).
09-29-18, 07:24 PM
