My Dream 4th Gen RX-7
11-13-13, 01:21 PM
#51
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As fun as it is to read the preceeding threads, I doubt Mazda will ever build another rotary engined car.
The world's car manufacturers, like all other global business', are merging into larger and larger conglomerates whereas Mazda has lost Ford both as a major shareholder and development partner and is now a very small player. In order to survive alone, they have to build cost effective cars that sell. It's a romantic notion that ideals and dreams somehow run car companies but they don't. I suppose Mazda embraced the rotary in the 1960s as something to make them different from the other Japanese manufacturers but now that they are a brand known for making interesting fun to drive cars, they don't need the rotary anymore.
There'd have to be a solid business reason to produce a rotary, perhaps a change to a hydrogen powered economy or proliferation of hybrid cars that see a significant benefit to using a rotary engine as the backup power source.
The world's car manufacturers, like all other global business', are merging into larger and larger conglomerates whereas Mazda has lost Ford both as a major shareholder and development partner and is now a very small player. In order to survive alone, they have to build cost effective cars that sell. It's a romantic notion that ideals and dreams somehow run car companies but they don't. I suppose Mazda embraced the rotary in the 1960s as something to make them different from the other Japanese manufacturers but now that they are a brand known for making interesting fun to drive cars, they don't need the rotary anymore.
There'd have to be a solid business reason to produce a rotary, perhaps a change to a hydrogen powered economy or proliferation of hybrid cars that see a significant benefit to using a rotary engine as the backup power source.
i do agree that they need to have a solid business reason for the rotary, and that might be tricky. i think they could put a fancy engine cover on a piston engine, call it a rotary, and most people wouldn't know the difference.
11-13-13, 11:54 PM
#52
emissions r teh sux
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^too true about the "disguised" rotary idea.
IF mazda did make another rotary vehicle I would expect them to touch upon their deeper roots..affordable, balanced, fun to drive. Its why the rx7 succeeded in the first place...it was affordable and performed well. Admittedly emissions are a real bitch for the rotary but there have been several suggestions in this thread that would make it feaseable.
The problem I keep having with all of the manufacturers is that they keep pushing ff vehicles and cvt transmissions. If they do produce a fr vehicle its usually so expensive that its out of reach for just about everyone that has a life or responsibilities ( college, kids, house payments...).
Gas mileage offers another problem with the rotary, but I feel that it should be up to the owner to figure out how to improve the mileage. For instance the proper aero parts can make a world of difference. Airdams and spoilers are only part of it. If you look at many race vehicles, there is a whole set of aero parts on the under belly as well as the "topside" chassis. Belly pans, sealed wheel wells, diffusers...even if mazda doesn't offer these parts, they are fairly easy to fabricate and install with a little effort.
IF mazda did make another rotary vehicle I would expect them to touch upon their deeper roots..affordable, balanced, fun to drive. Its why the rx7 succeeded in the first place...it was affordable and performed well. Admittedly emissions are a real bitch for the rotary but there have been several suggestions in this thread that would make it feaseable.
The problem I keep having with all of the manufacturers is that they keep pushing ff vehicles and cvt transmissions. If they do produce a fr vehicle its usually so expensive that its out of reach for just about everyone that has a life or responsibilities ( college, kids, house payments...).
Gas mileage offers another problem with the rotary, but I feel that it should be up to the owner to figure out how to improve the mileage. For instance the proper aero parts can make a world of difference. Airdams and spoilers are only part of it. If you look at many race vehicles, there is a whole set of aero parts on the under belly as well as the "topside" chassis. Belly pans, sealed wheel wells, diffusers...even if mazda doesn't offer these parts, they are fairly easy to fabricate and install with a little effort.
11-19-13, 11:42 AM
#53
It's all about balance
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What I can't wrap my head around is how companies like Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc. can exist with this so called "cafe" mileage standard, but more traditional companies like Mazda, Toyota, Ford, etc. have to continually try to make cars that get 40 or even 50 mpg's! In my eyes, there's no reason why Mazda can't make ONE car that get's less than 30 mpg highway.
Also, I hear some of you saying that a new RX-7 would HAVE to be profitable for them to produce it. I disagree. I mean I do believe the company has to be in a position to afford it, but that could also mean that they just need to be in a position financially to NOT have to make money on it. There have been many times in automotive history where a company produced a "halo" car that made the company no money, or even where they lose money on the car. I truly believe we WILL see a new RX-something with a rotary after the rest of the range is all-new. The CX-7 and Miata are all that's left. I believe we may even see a replacement for the RX-8 if Mazda gets the 16X right.
Also, I hear some of you saying that a new RX-7 would HAVE to be profitable for them to produce it. I disagree. I mean I do believe the company has to be in a position to afford it, but that could also mean that they just need to be in a position financially to NOT have to make money on it. There have been many times in automotive history where a company produced a "halo" car that made the company no money, or even where they lose money on the car. I truly believe we WILL see a new RX-something with a rotary after the rest of the range is all-new. The CX-7 and Miata are all that's left. I believe we may even see a replacement for the RX-8 if Mazda gets the 16X right.
11-19-13, 12:07 PM
#54
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the CEO said that the new rotary would have to sell 100,000units in order to be made, which is a really tall order, the miata is one of the best selling sports car in history*, and they only sell ~25,000 a year, and the Rx7 is right behind it on the list.
*the list, with some debate
820,000 Porsche 911
800,000 Miata
700,000 Rx7
500,000 MGB.
the corvette is at 2,000,000, but apparently they aren't sports cars, and are upside down canoes or something
*the list, with some debate
820,000 Porsche 911
800,000 Miata
700,000 Rx7
500,000 MGB.
the corvette is at 2,000,000, but apparently they aren't sports cars, and are upside down canoes or something
11-19-13, 12:58 PM
#55
My wife bought me 2 RX-7s
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the CEO said that the new rotary would have to sell 100,000units in order to be made, which is a really tall order, the miata is one of the best selling sports car in history*, and they only sell ~25,000 a year, and the Rx7 is right behind it on the list.
*the list, with some debate
820,000 Porsche 911
800,000 Miata
700,000 Rx7
500,000 MGB.
the corvette is at 2,000,000, but apparently they aren't sports cars, and are upside down canoes or something
*the list, with some debate
820,000 Porsche 911
800,000 Miata
700,000 Rx7
500,000 MGB.
the corvette is at 2,000,000, but apparently they aren't sports cars, and are upside down canoes or something
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...ary-is-a-no-go
If the target is 100k units a year, a new rotary-powered car will never be produced again. I don't see why Mazda couldn't produce a lower-powered rotary coupe a-la the Subaru BR-Z/Toyota 86 and sell 10-20k units a year.
Oh well. It's not as if I'd be in line to buy one anyhow. I'm only interested in rotary cars that I can work on, and given my limited skill-set, the FB/SA is it.
Last edited by MosesX605; 11-19-13 at 01:03 PM.
11-19-13, 01:20 PM
#56
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Here's the link if anyone is interested:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...ary-is-a-no-go
If the target is 100k units a year, a new rotary-powered car will never be produced again. I don't see why Mazda couldn't produce a lower-powered rotary coupe a-la the Subaru BR-Z/Toyota 86 and sell 10-20k units a year.
Oh well. It's not as if I'd be in line to buy one anyhow. I'm only interested in rotary cars that I can work on, and given my limited skill-set, the FB/SA is it.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...ary-is-a-no-go
If the target is 100k units a year, a new rotary-powered car will never be produced again. I don't see why Mazda couldn't produce a lower-powered rotary coupe a-la the Subaru BR-Z/Toyota 86 and sell 10-20k units a year.
Oh well. It's not as if I'd be in line to buy one anyhow. I'm only interested in rotary cars that I can work on, and given my limited skill-set, the FB/SA is it.
11-20-13, 08:58 AM
#57
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Well, I suppose that's what Mazda gets for hiring a bean-counter. Sure, the company may be running in the black, but the unique character of the company will be lost if the rotary doesn't make some sort of appearance in the product line-up.
11-23-13, 10:10 AM
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the total number of units for the entire run. The RX-7 has never sold over 85K units per year, even when it was insanely popular and profitable. Like I said, Mazda wants to make money on the next RX, but that is only one of the factors here and not the only one. Halo cars are commonly not really big money makers. Many times they even lose money, but boost the brand overall. Think Lexus LF-A
11-25-13, 02:06 PM
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the total number of units for the entire run. The RX-7 has never sold over 85K units per year, even when it was insanely popular and profitable. Like I said, Mazda wants to make money on the next RX, but that is only one of the factors here and not the only one. Halo cars are commonly not really big money makers. Many times they even lose money, but boost the brand overall. Think Lexus LF-A
the LFA is a funny car, i've seen one, it was in the Lexus booth at the car show. by contrast i've seen two Ferrari GTO's at the same stoplight.. or if you like there are a few aventadors running around
11-25-13, 11:49 PM
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Here's the link if anyone is interested:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...ary-is-a-no-go
If the target is 100k units a year, a new rotary-powered car will never be produced again. I don't see why Mazda couldn't produce a lower-powered rotary coupe a-la the Subaru BR-Z/Toyota 86 and sell 10-20k units a year.
Oh well. It's not as if I'd be in line to buy one anyhow. I'm only interested in rotary cars that I can work on, and given my limited skill-set, the FB/SA is it.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...ary-is-a-no-go
If the target is 100k units a year, a new rotary-powered car will never be produced again. I don't see why Mazda couldn't produce a lower-powered rotary coupe a-la the Subaru BR-Z/Toyota 86 and sell 10-20k units a year.
Oh well. It's not as if I'd be in line to buy one anyhow. I'm only interested in rotary cars that I can work on, and given my limited skill-set, the FB/SA is it.
There is a small glimmer though.
11-26-13, 04:37 PM
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there is hope, actually. we do live in a world where nissan makes the juke, and hyundai makes the veloster…
actually compared to both of those the Rx8 was a huge success.
actually compared to both of those the Rx8 was a huge success.
11-27-13, 02:26 PM
#65
Some of you may think this is sacrilege.
My dream 4th gen would be a 1st gen done up completely in carbon with poly carbonate windows so as to lose about 600 lbs and powered by an electric drive train. Upgrade the suspension to a more modern setup with 15 inch wheels. If you do the battery under the floor like the Tesla S it would end up with a 140 mile range and be a bit lighter than the original car with a considerably lower center of mass. Be a fantastic track car in addition to an awesome daily driver.
It is still a rotary guys! Just a magnetic rotary.
My dream 4th gen would be a 1st gen done up completely in carbon with poly carbonate windows so as to lose about 600 lbs and powered by an electric drive train. Upgrade the suspension to a more modern setup with 15 inch wheels. If you do the battery under the floor like the Tesla S it would end up with a 140 mile range and be a bit lighter than the original car with a considerably lower center of mass. Be a fantastic track car in addition to an awesome daily driver.
It is still a rotary guys! Just a magnetic rotary.
11-28-13, 10:50 AM
#67
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It's not an "RX" without the rotary. If Mazda does a lightweight sports coupe slotted above the Miata (Which would still be cool) and it doesn't have a rotary, they should call it something else.
11-28-13, 01:38 PM
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Some of you may think this is sacrilege.
My dream 4th gen would be a 1st gen done up completely in carbon with poly carbonate windows so as to lose about 600 lbs and powered by an electric drive train. Upgrade the suspension to a more modern setup with 15 inch wheels. If you do the battery under the floor like the Tesla S it would end up with a 140 mile range and be a bit lighter than the original car with a considerably lower center of mass. Be a fantastic track car in addition to an awesome daily driver.
It is still a rotary guys! Just a magnetic rotary.
My dream 4th gen would be a 1st gen done up completely in carbon with poly carbonate windows so as to lose about 600 lbs and powered by an electric drive train. Upgrade the suspension to a more modern setup with 15 inch wheels. If you do the battery under the floor like the Tesla S it would end up with a 140 mile range and be a bit lighter than the original car with a considerably lower center of mass. Be a fantastic track car in addition to an awesome daily driver.
It is still a rotary guys! Just a magnetic rotary.
This is more likely: an EV that uses a rotary generator for a range extender or power boost.
Kinda cool, actually. This is one application where the compact packaging of the rotary far outweighs its fuel-efficiency limitations.
12-01-13, 04:05 PM
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Mazda2 EV range extender first drive review
This is more likely: an EV that uses a rotary generator for a range extender or power boost.
Kinda cool, actually. This is one application where the compact packaging of the rotary far outweighs its fuel-efficiency limitations.
This is more likely: an EV that uses a rotary generator for a range extender or power boost.
Kinda cool, actually. This is one application where the compact packaging of the rotary far outweighs its fuel-efficiency limitations.
12-05-13, 04:35 AM
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This thread has been an outstanding read to say the least. Although in my unimportant opinion, i'm not having a mid life crisis so please, Mazda do not put a rotary in a Miata and call it a day. The rotary is iconic to the Rx series and should stay that way.
The ideas presented here have been great, revising the s5 series into modern day technology and providing a dry sump system for the oil consumption (which is currently set up in my fd and sipping amzoil 2-stroke). So many options for revising with success as an outcome!
It's all good, every last bit so PLEASE Mazda just please man up and come up with a solution. I personally want a Rx-sports car for the future, not a hybrid Miata. That is all
The ideas presented here have been great, revising the s5 series into modern day technology and providing a dry sump system for the oil consumption (which is currently set up in my fd and sipping amzoil 2-stroke). So many options for revising with success as an outcome!
It's all good, every last bit so PLEASE Mazda just please man up and come up with a solution. I personally want a Rx-sports car for the future, not a hybrid Miata. That is all
12-05-13, 09:21 AM
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This thread has been an outstanding read to say the least. Although in my unimportant opinion, i'm not having a mid life crisis so please, Mazda do not put a rotary in a Miata and call it a day. The rotary is iconic to the Rx series and should stay that way.
The ideas presented here have been great, revising the s5 series into modern day technology and providing a dry sump system for the oil consumption (which is currently set up in my fd and sipping amzoil 2-stroke). So many options for revising with success as an outcome!
It's all good, every last bit so PLEASE Mazda just please man up and come up with a solution. I personally want a Rx-sports car for the future, not a hybrid Miata. That is all
The ideas presented here have been great, revising the s5 series into modern day technology and providing a dry sump system for the oil consumption (which is currently set up in my fd and sipping amzoil 2-stroke). So many options for revising with success as an outcome!
It's all good, every last bit so PLEASE Mazda just please man up and come up with a solution. I personally want a Rx-sports car for the future, not a hybrid Miata. That is all
Last edited by earthtone7se; 12-05-13 at 09:27 AM.
02-21-14, 09:01 AM
#74
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So I've been hearing new rumors that there is a new RX on the way in 2016 (Heard this one before). The specs this time are 2800 lbs with 250 hp. I think this sounds heavy considering it is supposed to be based on the next Miata which is supposed to weigh around 2200 lbs. This leads me to believe it will either be a hybrid, or actually more of an RX-8 replacement, maybe both. What are you guys' thoughts?
