Killed the muscle car.
03-14-14, 08:25 PM
#1
seattle seven
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Killed the muscle car.
Neighbor has a beautiful 67 SS Camaro, 327, 4spd, destroyed him in my lowly albeit modified rx7... Much respect for the muscle cars.. But I am Quicker.
04-04-14, 08:42 AM
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It's all about balance
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You guys are giving that Camaro too much respect. American muscle from those days aren't all that quick unless you modify them. A well driven FB with 200-250hp will do them in. Especially considering the 1000lb weight advantage.
Oh, and I believe the manual trannys in 60's American Muscle came right out of semi trucks. Just sayin'.
Oh, and I believe the manual trannys in 60's American Muscle came right out of semi trucks. Just sayin'.
04-04-14, 09:05 AM
#7
seattle seven
Thread Starter
You guys are giving that Camaro too much respect. American muscle from those days aren't all that quick unless you modify them. A well driven FB with 200-250hp will do them in. Especially considering the 1000lb weight advantage.
Oh, and I believe the manual trannys in 60's American Muscle came right out of semi trucks. Just sayin'.
Oh, and I believe the manual trannys in 60's American Muscle came right out of semi trucks. Just sayin'.
Those cars are gone now, but my rx7 is just as strong as that old Rabbit...
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04-04-14, 11:43 AM
#8
Is a 67 Camaro with a 327 small block V8 a Muscle Car?
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
04-04-14, 12:43 PM
#9
seattle seven
Thread Starter
Is a 67 Camaro with a 327 small block V8 a Muscle Car?
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
Nothing could catch that car!!!
04-04-14, 01:28 PM
#10
Is a 67 Camaro with a 327 small block V8 a Muscle Car?
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
If you're putting down 170 bhp in a 2300 lb car with decent gearing, I can totally see owning a 327 Camaro
fm
04-13-14, 10:08 PM
#11
rotary sensei
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Is a 67 Camaro with a 327 small block V8 a Muscle Car?
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
The definition of a muscle car used to mean that the car in question has a Big Block V8. Like a Hemi Cuda, 440 6pak Roadrunner, Mustang Boss 429 or the same Camaro with a 396,427, 454, etc for example. Throw in a Buick GS Stage III Skylark or a Pontiac GTO Ram Air Judge for good measure.
Not trying to minimize your accomplishment but you beat a car that wasn't considered fast when it was new.
That said, I am sure it was satisfying
Muscle Car Shootout (Boss 429,GTO Judge,Challenger HEMI,GS455,Chevelle LS6 & HURST OLDS)
I remember Popular Mechanics ran a bunch of muscle cars bone stock with new rubber, all very high 13's and low 14's. The bone-stock LS-6 ran a 13.35 at 104.16 mph, fastest car other than a Viper they used as a comparo. .
04-13-14, 10:20 PM
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life's a drag*)
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What year was the w30? 79? And did it have polyglass tires?
My 70 w31 runs 7.80 in an 8th mile with mt streets on the original wheels. Only thing done to it from stock is hooker headers and a holley. What did your 4 port run?
QUOTE=Mr rx-7 tt;11717825]Ran plenty of them in my modified 4 port 13b and beat them all. Those cars were high 13 second low 14 second cars, stock. I use to crush my buddies 442 W30.
Muscle Car Shootout (Boss 429,GTO Judge,Challenger HEMI,GS455,Chevelle LS6 & HURST OLDS)
I remember Popular Mechanics ran a bunch of muscle cars bone stock with new rubber, all very high 13's and low 14's. The bone-stock LS-6 ran a 13.35 at 104.16 mph, fastest car other than a Viper they used as a comparo. .[/QUOTE]
My 70 w31 runs 7.80 in an 8th mile with mt streets on the original wheels. Only thing done to it from stock is hooker headers and a holley. What did your 4 port run?
QUOTE=Mr rx-7 tt;11717825]Ran plenty of them in my modified 4 port 13b and beat them all. Those cars were high 13 second low 14 second cars, stock. I use to crush my buddies 442 W30.
Muscle Car Shootout (Boss 429,GTO Judge,Challenger HEMI,GS455,Chevelle LS6 & HURST OLDS)
I remember Popular Mechanics ran a bunch of muscle cars bone stock with new rubber, all very high 13's and low 14's. The bone-stock LS-6 ran a 13.35 at 104.16 mph, fastest car other than a Viper they used as a comparo. .[/QUOTE]
04-13-14, 10:26 PM
#13
I actually own Rotaries
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It doesnt have to be a big block to be a muscle car!!!! If that Camaro had a 302 it would have been a better race!!! Also dont forget the Mopar's with the 340 and 340 6 pack, Boss 302 stangs!! all muscle cars and all small block... Im sure im missing more than a few... just saying.
04-13-14, 10:39 PM
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Well from the olds mobile side, 64 442 only had a 330 small block, in 68 they had the ram rod 350, which in 69 changed to the w-31 with a 350 same for 70 which is what mine is, the only difference is the 70 came with a factory aluminum intake. Also in 70 they had a rallye 350 cutlass which I have and use as my daily driver, but (stock) it didn't have the same power as the w car. After 70 it just went down hill as far as power was concerned...... well unless you wanna jump on an 87 buick gn, but now were out of the muscle car era. Just throwin that out there.
04-13-14, 10:47 PM
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Not completely true on the 302 being a better race, if the 327 was an L79 327 which is an under rated 325hp vs the 290hp for a 302 z28 engine, it could run right there with most big blocks.
It doesnt have to be a big block to be a muscle car!!!! If that Camaro had a 302 it would have been a better race!!! Also dont forget the Mopar's with the 340 and 340 6 pack, Boss 302 stangs!! all muscle cars and all small block... Im sure im missing more than a few... just saying.
04-13-14, 10:51 PM
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rotary sensei
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It also was 70. No he had radials, Goodyear Eagles. He had Hooker Headers on the car but the original Quadrajet, 4 speed car and it was bone stock other than the headers. Not sure what my FB ran, but I had no problem beating him. We would even switch drivers same result, the RX-7 was faster, always.
04-13-14, 11:14 PM
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35r 13b first gen
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Love it! Not trying to bag on muscle cars but they were not as fast as people made them out to be.. It's good to put them in their place once in a while and keep their head from swelling up to big. Especially the ones that always say imports suck and are slow and dumb.. It's nice that our little cars with a little add ons will spank a lot of "fast" cars.
I'm sure a lot of new family sedans are faster than a lot of those "muscle cars"
Again, I like muscle cars, just don't like the way a lot of people that have them act
I'm sure a lot of new family sedans are faster than a lot of those "muscle cars"
Again, I like muscle cars, just don't like the way a lot of people that have them act
04-13-14, 11:34 PM
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What was done to the 4 port in the 7? also did the w30 have a/c?
It also was 70. No he had radials, Goodyear Eagles. He had Hooker Headers on the car but the original Quadrajet, 4 speed car and it was bone stock other than the headers. Not sure what my FB ran, but I had no problem beating him. We would even switch drivers same result, the RX-7 was faster, always.
04-13-14, 11:41 PM
#19
It doesnt have to be a big block to be a muscle car!!!! If that Camaro had a 302 it would have been a better race!!! Also dont forget the Mopar's with the 340 and 340 6 pack, Boss 302 stangs!! all muscle cars and all small block... Im sure im missing more than a few... just saying.
The Boss 302, for example, had intake valves (2.25" in diameter) that were bigger than a 454 Chevy. A friend of mine road raced a 69 Boss 302 in the early 70s and he said the car would barely get out of its own way below 4K RPMs. Now the same car from 6-8K RPM was a beast!
I was around when muscle cars were built and grew up wanting one as they became legendary. The definition of a muscle car used to be any light weight, bare bones car with the biggest engine that can be fitted. Like the original 64 GTO that started the ball rolling. Now the Muscle Car label is applied to anything old with a V8 or a new American made performance car. I even saw an magazine article that hung that moniker on my 305HP V6 Mustang.......pleeeeeaaaazzzzee
As far as how fast the old cars were.....not fast by modern standards. But if you fit some DOT drag tires and decent drag shocks you would have something.
04-13-14, 11:53 PM
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Lol yeah I've been hearing people call the v6 stang a muscle car and some of the other newer cars, but personally I couldn't give a rats as@ if it had enough power to pull the front wheels off the ground, its still not a muscle car.
I have nothing but respect for those cars but they are not muscle cars. Several of the cars you mentioned were homologation specials that allowed the cars/engines to be used in road racing. The 340 cars were the same deal and were quick but they weren't as fast as 440/Hemi powered car. Heck, a true Mustang Boss 302/Camaro Z28 302 was a pretty gutless car at low RPMs.
The Boss 302, for example, had intake valves (2.25" in diameter) that were bigger than a 454 Chevy. A friend of mine road raced a 69 Boss 302 in the early 70s and he said the car would barely get out of its own way below 4K RPMs. Now the same car from 6-8K RPM was a beast!
I was around when muscle cars were built and grew up wanting one as they became legendary. The definition of a muscle car used to be any light weight, bare bones car with the biggest engine that can be fitted. Like the original 64 GTO that started the ball rolling. Now the Muscle Car label is applied to anything old with a V8 or a new American made performance car. I even saw an magazine article that hung that moniker on my 305HP V6 Mustang.......pleeeeeaaaazzzzee
As far as how fast the old cars were.....not fast by modern standards. But if you fit some DOT drag tires and decent drag shocks you would have something.
The Boss 302, for example, had intake valves (2.25" in diameter) that were bigger than a 454 Chevy. A friend of mine road raced a 69 Boss 302 in the early 70s and he said the car would barely get out of its own way below 4K RPMs. Now the same car from 6-8K RPM was a beast!
I was around when muscle cars were built and grew up wanting one as they became legendary. The definition of a muscle car used to be any light weight, bare bones car with the biggest engine that can be fitted. Like the original 64 GTO that started the ball rolling. Now the Muscle Car label is applied to anything old with a V8 or a new American made performance car. I even saw an magazine article that hung that moniker on my 305HP V6 Mustang.......pleeeeeaaaazzzzee
As far as how fast the old cars were.....not fast by modern standards. But if you fit some DOT drag tires and decent drag shocks you would have something.
04-14-14, 11:22 PM
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rotary sensei
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Basically everything you could do at the time. From the porting, to a RP intake, 4bbl, Lt weight flywheel, CD/PP, suspension, wheels/tires, ignition, etc. The car was lightened as much as I could, shopped for light wheels, Rotary Engineering exhaust (big difference in weight). and on and on. Years later I later added a blower and Nitrous.
Can't remember if the 442 had A/C or not.
Can't remember if the 442 had A/C or not.
04-14-14, 11:30 PM
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rotary sensei
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I have nothing but respect for those cars but they are not muscle cars. Several of the cars you mentioned were homologation specials that allowed the cars/engines to be used in road racing. The 340 cars were the same deal and were quick but they weren't as fast as 440/Hemi powered car. Heck, a true Mustang Boss 302/Camaro Z28 302 was a pretty gutless car at low RPMs.
The Boss 302, for example, had intake valves (2.25" in diameter) that were bigger than a 454 Chevy. A friend of mine road raced a 69 Boss 302 in the early 70s and he said the car would barely get out of its own way below 4K RPMs. Now the same car from 6-8K RPM was a beast!
I was around when muscle cars were built and grew up wanting one as they became legendary. The definition of a muscle car used to be any light weight, bare bones car with the biggest engine that can be fitted. Like the original 64 GTO that started the ball rolling. Now the Muscle Car label is applied to anything old with a V8 or a new American made performance car. I even saw an magazine article that hung that moniker on my 305HP V6 Mustang.......pleeeeeaaaazzzzee
As far as how fast the old cars were.....not fast by modern standards. But if you fit some DOT drag tires and decent drag shocks you would have something.
The Boss 302, for example, had intake valves (2.25" in diameter) that were bigger than a 454 Chevy. A friend of mine road raced a 69 Boss 302 in the early 70s and he said the car would barely get out of its own way below 4K RPMs. Now the same car from 6-8K RPM was a beast!
I was around when muscle cars were built and grew up wanting one as they became legendary. The definition of a muscle car used to be any light weight, bare bones car with the biggest engine that can be fitted. Like the original 64 GTO that started the ball rolling. Now the Muscle Car label is applied to anything old with a V8 or a new American made performance car. I even saw an magazine article that hung that moniker on my 305HP V6 Mustang.......pleeeeeaaaazzzzee
As far as how fast the old cars were.....not fast by modern standards. But if you fit some DOT drag tires and decent drag shocks you would have something.
Even with new rubber those older cars were 6 second 0-60 cars and high 13 to low 14 second cars in stock form. Cars today are of course faster, technology. A stock FD was really fast in 1993 today sedans are faster.
04-14-14, 11:33 PM
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rotary sensei
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project7s,
Did you watch the video I posted? The 442 W30 beat them all in the 1/4. Have any pics of your 442? Love to see them.
I have plenty of time behind the wheel of a 1969 W31.
Did you watch the video I posted? The 442 W30 beat them all in the 1/4. Have any pics of your 442? Love to see them.
I have plenty of time behind the wheel of a 1969 W31.
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 04-14-14 at 11:35 PM.
04-15-14, 07:37 AM
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Ok, so the 7 was not just a 13b put in a 7 body there was a lot of other stuff done to it, I can see now that power to weight thing is a bitc@ lol. What's a rp intake though? Is it like racing beats? And how big of a port did it have? I'm just really interestest, I'm not trying to argue or anything now. Oh the reason I asked if the olds had ac was that would mean if it did then the lowest gear it could get from the factory was 3.42 vs the non ac 's standard 3.91 but you could dealer install a 4.33 or a 4.88
Yeah if you want to pm me your email I can send you some pics of my w31 and the rallye 350, I would love to hear some more details on your cars as well.
Yeah if you want to pm me your email I can send you some pics of my w31 and the rallye 350, I would love to hear some more details on your cars as well.
Basically everything you could do at the time. From the porting, to a RP intake, 4bbl, Lt weight flywheel, CD/PP, suspension, wheels/tires, ignition, etc. The car was lightened as much as I could, shopped for light wheels, Rotary Engineering exhaust (big difference in weight). and on and on. Years later I later added a blower and Nitrous.
Can't remember if the 442 had A/C or not.
Can't remember if the 442 had A/C or not.