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I have a 1985 GSL-SE that the headlights are not working on. I can rotate the switch 1 click to turn on the dash lights (slight delay between rotating switch and dash lights turning on, getting worse). Rotate 1 more click and the headlights pop up but ofcourse, no light. I can flash the brights by pulling on the lever every time with no problem every time but no lo beams or high beams. It started with just the high beams not working so I just never used them. Over time (and sitting in the garage for awhile) the low beams stopped working. I tried the process of hosing down the switch with electrical cleaner with no success what so ever. I then took the switch out completely and cleaned up the brass leaf contacts with some high grit sand paper, SUCCESS! Sort of... it worked for awhile but then the lights soon failed again. Tried the same process that worked before with the same results. My headlights only worked for a few days. I noticed that the carbon build up from the leaf connectors touching was noticeable and came back quickly. I'm curious on how I can help with the build up of that. I already tried dielectric grease. That did seem to help a bit but only for a short time. I'm thinking on giving up the battle and just buying a new switch but I just want to make sure I've done everything I can. If anyone has any ideas please help! Will post pics if needed.
the switch is carrying the load so there's alot of arcing going on inside of that switch. the best remedy is to add a relay to carry the load instead of the switch. i would also check for corrosion in the plugs behind the headlights and clean them if needed.
Manufacturer name is Putco,believe part# is
23000WH4. That’s a good price on Amazon.
Recommend op clean switch again and install harness,should work out as switch only has to support milliamps to trigger relays and not load of actual headlamps anymore.
I just installed similar harness a week ago, and will fix your problem, OP.
The Black Dragon Motors catalog used to show this same harness, as linked above.
Installation is straight forward, though you will need to remove the headlight surrounds and the bulbs to unplug the stock connector and I stall the harness connector. I grounded the harness for each bulb riht at the headlight flip pivot, and you'll see when you install it as the ground wires are short. Run the harness under your top radiator support and zip tie it to the mounting holes, install the red leads to the battery positive and you're done. It was really simple to install, and now lights are much brighter and the Hi Beams work again! My problem was that activating the high beams cause all the headlights to drop out for a few seconds - very disconcerting at night!
This harness will remove the full power of the headlight draw from the combination switch and dramatically reduce arcing there, while also giving your full battery voltage to the headlights for better vision. This is an excellent upgrade, though you may still need to clean your combo switch contacts if youve let it go too long,
The relays sold with the Black Dragon upgrade keep dying! And they're expensive to replace. I'm about to install a toggle switch and hard wire the from the battery to the head light like I have with the a/c and fan.
Of course over spec the wiring and use a buzz fuse.
The relays sold with the Black Dragon upgrade keep dying! And they're expensive to replace. I'm about to install a toggle switch and hard wire the from the battery to the head light like I have with the a/c and fan.
Of course over spec the wiring and use a buzz fuse.
They can be replaced with Bosch type 4-5 pin relays.I provide these relays with their own ground. I have found repetitive relay failures can be traced back to dirty,oxidized,compromised grounds. There are only two at headlight connectors, these also ground the relays in harness.
Have installed a number of harnesses from this company,quite a few have been in service 15+ years with no problems. Couple relays here and there. For any more than stock wattage lamps,i replace relays with Bosch type and on all the harnesses i ditch fuse links for inline fuseholders carrying 25 amp fuses.The rest of the harness,connectors,terminals are very good quality for what they cost.
I received the relay and the plug. I'm really confused. Are wire colors supposed to mean anything? I thought red always meant 12 + voltage from the battery. If a contract on a relay is labeled 30, does that always mean 12 + from the battery? The wire number labels on the female connector are different from what was on the internet.
I jumped 12v battery to the 87a and blue wire to 87, lights came on, when I did 86 to blue, wires got hot and sparked, and no lights ( wtf happened? outside of I screwed up).
I erroneously thought that I could just simply match the wire colors.
If you purchased the one in my link, then all that is required is to put the red ring terminals to the battery and the black ring terminal to a good ground. The relays will plug into their connectors, the factory headlight plugs plug into the harness and then the harness to the headlights.
Last edited by KansasCityREPU; 10-19-19 at 08:34 PM.
Thankyou, KansasCityREPU
I have the one from Black Dragon. But I'm changing the relay to bosch 0332 209 150. They're easier to find.
I figured it out:
Plug/socket colors don't mean anything.
Numbers on the relays are universal/ fundamental/they don't change. As you look to the black dragon female connector with the hole for the clip on top
30 right bottom ; goes to battery +12 v
87 right top ; goes to the head lights, is off unless the headlight combi switch is on which powers the coil to make the connection between 30 and 87
85 is upper left ; blue - white wire on black dragon female socket/plug ; GROUND ; which is connected to both female sockets
86 is bottom left ; goes to combi switch
or it is what GLSE said. The socket plug's red wire threw me off.
I used male slide connectors , crimped them on to the new female socket plug wires, and slide those connectors into the original black dragon female plugs/sockets. So it's backward compatible to the original Mr312504 relay.
Last edited by midnight mechanic; 10-20-19 at 02:34 PM.
Thankyou, KansasCityREPU
I have the one from Black Dragon. But I'm changing the relay to bosch 0332 209 150. They're easier to find.
I figured it out:
Plug/socket colors don't mean anything.
Numbers on the relays are universal/ fundamental .
30 connects to battery +12 v
85 and 86 connect to ground and combiswitch (they control the coil which controls the switch).
87 goes to the head lights, and is off unless there is the headlight combi switch is on which powers the coil to make the connection between 30 and 87
85 and 86 are left and vertical if you look at the harness female connector, with the hole for the clip on top and the 12V + red coming from the battery wire is right bottom.
or it is what GLSE said. The socket plug's red wire threw me off.
This is great info if/when I need to change my relays.
Nope, there isn't any fuse like you'd expect to see on the Positive leads.
After much thought, I ascertained that its better to go direct on the battery Positive leads and trust the relays to disengage via the combo switch which are fused in the panel under the dash rather than run the positives to the Fusible Links at the strut tower. My thinking is that during night driving, it would be better to isolate the headlights from the Fusible Links in the event that the headlights would draw more current if they fail through the link and cause it to burn up, leaving you stranded. In the dark.
GSLSEforme,... any thoughts on that? I really don't trust my Fusible Links very much at this point in their age...
I think - due to SAE safety standards - everything in a new car is fused.
If I were to fuse the power leads for the Black Dragon Relay harness, it would be at those 2 red leads with the ring connectors right at the Battery (+) terminal. That's still isolated from the rest of the electrical system and would blow the fuse if you shorted out one of the power leads going to the headlights.
As to fuse size - I would tend toward 25A-30A, but I'm not basing that on electrical load calculations; I'm just leery about under-fusing them and losing my headlight(s) while driving at night, which is potentially disasterous and possibly deadly. That's also why I don't have them fused currently (*...and why I asked GSLSEforme if he had any thoughts on it - given his experience with 1st Gen electrical systems).
Is there a fuse between the headlight, ground, and +12v battery? on the blackdragon upgrade??
Look closely at red wires connecting battery to white connector in your harness,They are the fusible links for your new headlight harness. Same as oe fuse links on driver side fenderwell.
I’ll respond to LongDucks post,modification will be the same.
While the Putco/Black dragon harness has good quality connectors/terminals throughout,it stops at that white connector to the fuse links. Almost like two different people assembled it. Long time mulling thus over I have decided it to be a cost cutting move,the links are much cheaper than fuses and fuse holders to manufacture.
So I should fuse the black dragon upgrade harness right after the +12 battery post? What size?
Seems like everything in every car should be fused right after the +12 v battery post.
Why isn't it done like this in every car?
Can you imagine the clusterf*** that would be at the battery? Underhood power distribution centers came about when cars/trucks began to have a large amount of accessory demand.
Majority of large power consumers are fused here.
Relays,large amp bolt in fuses from 150 amp down to 30 amps are housed as close to the battery as possible.
Smaller demand circuits are fused in in underside of dash. Normally what determines what goes where is a packaging concern revolving around available space.
Nope, there isn't any fuse like you'd expect to see on the Positive leads.
After much thought, I ascertained that its better to go direct on the battery Positive leads and trust the relays to disengage via the combo switch which are fused in the panel under the dash rather than run the positives to the Fusible Links at the strut tower. My thinking is that during night driving, it would be better to isolate the headlights from the Fusible Links in the event that the headlights would draw more current if they fail through the link and cause it to burn up, leaving you stranded. In the dark.
GSLSEforme,... any thoughts on that? I really don't trust my Fusible Links very much at this point in their age...
One of the things that appeals to me re the Putco/BD harness is it is designed with lo/hi beam circuits independent of each other.
Some scenarios-from personal experience...
Where I live,right now is coming into deer rut season.
Game preserve backs up to my property and all the way along road into town @13 miles Tall trees,vegetation right up to shoulder of the road both sides.
Have lost more cars to totals from deer hits.than other incidents
82 GSL,buck runs out full tilt,on the brakes hard,full front hit,knocked his legs out from under him,up on the hood,broke windshield and slid off side of car.
Girlfriend screaming scared me more than the deer.
Pulled over,flares out,looking over car...right headlight door,surround all gone. Yanked wires out all the way back into the loom.
Called police to report,deer still in road,alive.
They came and shot deer,slid onto a roll back.
I was able to drive 9 miles home on low beam, hi beams were on at time of deer hit,popped hi beam fuse ,I was able to drive home on left low beam,hanging my body out left door to see.
Coming back from hunting trip in mountains,deer again,going too fast to stop tried to drive around him,got me in right fender of truck. Pull fender out with jack handle and drove 100 miles home on other headlight.
Accidents same,same. With oe fuselink or single fused headlight harness,you have no operational headlights
Fuse/fuselink powers all headlights,something like this scenario =no headlights and tow truck.
When using one of these harnesses,I clip red wires right at white connector on harness side and I use Buss inline weatherproof ATC fuseholder with hinged rubber lid. This fuseholder has 14 gauge wire and length when completed will be 2-3” longer than original fuselinked harness
Splice/solder/heat shrink one side of fuseholder into each lo/hi beam relay feed wire and other ends of both wires twisted together/crimped/soldered/heat shrinked into 10 gauge ring terminal to positive battery terminal.
10 gauge ring terminals are available in 1/4” which is very close in size to oe battery terminal bolt5/16” for 8 mmbattery terminal bolts.
For “stock” halogen 60/55 watt headlights,@10/8 amps is current draw. 15 amp fuse would be sufficient,20 amp is good reserve for both light circuits.
These harnesses modified with Bosch type relays can carry enough current to comfortably supply100/80 watt headlamp bulbs. I fuse this scenario with 30 amp fuse for both circuits
I believe that 85 to 86 combi switch is fused
I don't believe that the 30 to 87 ( battery to headlight to ground) is fused.
Or a ground inbetween the battery and head light will blow the combiswitch circuit fuse?
The #30 terminal is power in from fuselink or an inline fuseholder and it protects the #87 circuit . In answer to your question,any short anywhere beyond #30 terminal is covered.
There is no connection from #85(relay ground)and #86 relay trigger(inputs from headlamp dimmer switch) any short on load side of relay has no effect on #86 side.
10-13-19, 01:45 PM
