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So I was cleaning up my parts today, and noticed the bearing in my front stationary gear is pretty tired. Are these pressed in?? Or can you replace them by hand. I tried to get it out, but was mangling what's left of it.
Am I just doing it wrong?? Was thinking I should replace all the bearings if I'm in here. So I need some advice..
Woah.. Those tools aren't cheap are they.
I found out the hard way that they're pressed in.. lol
I managed to tap the bearing I was fighting with out, using an oiled up socket. But I wouldn't try that going back in.
I'll just take my rotors, and gears to a machine shop. It's easier that way.
So I'm kinda wondering when running the fancy bearings over a stock replacement would be needed?
I'm stuck between the two bearings.
The windowed bearing seems to be ideal for more lubrication..
But do I really need it?
I'm also wondering if I should, or even have to change my rotor bearings? They look fine, but then I'm in the same boat with bearing choice..
Though the competition rotor bearings are expensive!!
Any thoughts on these??
How high an rpm range do you plan to support? If you plan to be above 7k on a regular basis, then increased oil pressure mods, eshaft oil mods, bearing mods, pinned and hardened stationary gears and balanced assemblies all should be done. Probably windowed and competition bearings as well. I think you were looking at a ported motor for your application but I don't remember which port.
How high an rpm range do you plan to support? If you plan to be above 7k on a regular basis, then increased oil pressure mods, eshaft oil mods, bearing mods, pinned and hardened stationary gears and balanced assemblies all should be done. Probably windowed and competition bearings as well. I think you were looking at a ported motor for your application but I don't remember which port.
The port I'm gonna run is a pineapple racing, "racing street port"..
I have the recipe to tune a Edelbrock 500cfm AVS carb, and I eventually plan on going to a lower gear.
So it will get spun pretty high.. But I'm not even real sure what that port will spin it to??
9 maybe 10 grand??
If anything I'd like to add some longevity to the motor. I was also thinking about spraying some nitrous at it. (But that's just an idea).
Last edited by Mathius; 01-03-18 at 12:07 PM.
Reason: Add more to post.
The port I'm gonna run is a pineapple racing, "racing street port"..
I have the recipe to tune a Edelbrock 500cfm AVS carb, and I eventually plan on going to a lower gear.
So it will get spun pretty high.. But I'm not even real sure what that port will spin it to??
9 maybe 10 grand??
If anything I'd like to add some longevity to the motor. I was also thinking about spraying some nitrous at it. (But that's just an idea).
Get the How to modify your RX-7 book and read. You will need to look into what your intentions are before you build it. See it online here Foxed.ca - Mazda RX-7 Manuals .
Get the How to modify your RX-7 book and read. You will need to look into what your intentions are before you build it. See it online here Foxed.ca - Mazda RX-7 Manuals .
I know. I've really been winging it.
Most of the info I've been running with, is from emails I got from Rob at pineapple racing. He's been extremely patient, and helpful with my questions.
But I can't ask him all the questions I have.
I just want to build a motor that I'll be happy with, not just a stock motor that's a gutless turd. I'm starting to feel I might have set the bar to high though? I have no idea what I'm doing..
Thanx t_g_farrell.. That book is actually a pretty good read!!
I needed to read the exhaust section of it for sure. I've been struggling to figure that out in my head.
I have also been backwards in thinking of my apex seal selection.
But it gave me a better understanding of what to do, and the types of seals to use in my appication. With the mods, and port design I have in mind.
So using the windowed bearings, and competition rotor bearings is a good idea in my build. That's the route I'm going.
That being said. I'm still kind of confused on the whole Apex seal write up in the book? If I plan to sing it to 10k, and spray it. Then using a carbon seal would be best.. But I want the engine to last as well. So I really didn't want to use a carbon seal..
So what would be a good long lasting seal that won't warp under high sustained revs?
Thanx t_g_farrell.. That book is actually a pretty good read!!
I needed to read the exhaust section of it for sure. I've been struggling to figure that out in my head.
I have also been backwards in thinking of my apex seal selection.
But it gave me a better understanding of what to do, and the types of seals to use in my appication. With the mods, and port design I have in mind.
So using the windowed bearings, and competition rotor bearings is a good idea in my build. That's the route I'm going.
That being said. I'm still kind of confused on the whole Apex seal write up in the book? If I plan to sing it to 10k, and spray it. Then using a carbon seal would be best.. But I want the engine to last as well. So I really didn't want to use a carbon seal..
So what would be a good long lasting seal that won't warp under high sustained revs?
I wouldn't buy a special tool to press in a bearing. Just use the old bearing to press the new one in. And put the new bearings in the freezer a few hours before you press them in. With a warm rotor/stationary gear and a cold bearing it will almost seat in by hand.
I hear some people put Loctite on the bearing before installing. But I never have... I might next time.
I wouldn't buy a special tool to press in a bearing. Just use the old bearing to press the new one in. And put the new bearings in the freezer a few hours before you press them in. With a warm rotor/stationary gear and a cold bearing it will almost seat in by hand.
I hear some people put Loctite on the bearing before installing. But I never have... I might next time.
I actually thought about that. It works like a charm!
It's a good trick.. lol
Would you use the red loctite, or the blue?
That being said. I'm still kind of confused on the whole Apex seal write up in the book? If I plan to sing it to 10k, and spray it. Then using a carbon seal would be best.. But I want the engine to last as well. So I really didn't want to use a carbon seal..
So what would be a good long lasting seal that won't warp under high sustained revs?
stock OE 12A Mazda seals, made by Nippon Piston Ring, seal well, but they do not like rpm. the book says 8500, but in real life we've kind of reduced that to 7500, although if it went over that briefly its probably fine.
the Carbon Seals, are much much lighter, and thus seal better at high rpm. the trouble with these guys is that they wear much more quickly, and they are brittle. Mazda used them in a 12A up to 9,000rpm and 280hp (flywheel). in the 13B Mazda used them up to about 125hp/rotor, more power than that and they went to a Ceramic Seal.
so with these two factory seals, the Iron ones can handle power, but revs need to be kept moderate. the carbons, will rev higher, but power needs to be kept moderate.
i think i would run the atkins seals as a compromise, or maybe the goopy seals, which can be ordered slightly oversize so you can use them in rotors that would otherwise be doorstops
Maybe just set the new bearing outside for 5 minutes?
Lol.. It's nice up here right now. But that could change any day.
Originally Posted by j9fd3s
stock OE 12A Mazda seals, made by Nippon Piston Ring, seal well, but they do not like rpm. the book says 8500, but in real life we've kind of reduced that to 7500, although if it went over that briefly its probably fine.
the Carbon Seals, are much much lighter, and thus seal better at high rpm. the trouble with these guys is that they wear much more quickly, and they are brittle. Mazda used them in a 12A up to 9,000rpm and 280hp (flywheel). in the 13B Mazda used them up to about 125hp/rotor, more power than that and they went to a Ceramic Seal.
so with these two factory seals, the Iron ones can handle power, but revs need to be kept moderate. the carbons, will rev higher, but power needs to be kept moderate.
i think i would run the atkins seals as a compromise, or maybe the goopy seals, which can be ordered slightly oversize so you can use them in rotors that would otherwise be doorstops
I've been looking at the goopy seals, but I'm kinda on the fence? Talking with Rob at pineapple racing, he was saying that the port I'm looking at should pull from 6 to 10k..
I'm wondering if I should flip the bucks for ceramic seals?
But worry that they will just eat whats left of the chrome in the old housings I'm gonna run.
I also have my eye on those cryo treated Atkins seals.
Lol.. It's nice up here right now. But that could change any day.
I've been looking at the goopy seals, but I'm kinda on the fence? Talking with Rob at pineapple racing, he was saying that the port I'm looking at should pull from 6 to 10k..
I'm wondering if I should flip the bucks for ceramic seals?
But worry that they will just eat whats left of the chrome in the old housings I'm gonna run.
I also have my eye on those cryo treated Atkins seals.
if Rob has something in mind id listen, he's been doing this for a long time (he and i worked at the same dealership, although not at the same time, his REPU is legendary)
if Rob has something in mind id listen, he's been doing this for a long time (he and i worked at the same dealership, although not at the same time, his REPU is legendary)
You'll get no argument from me!
I've been chatting with him threw emails. He's helped me a ton.. Seems to be a really cool guy.
I descrbed what I had planned in my evil little mind, and he basically explained all the parts I would want, and why.
The only thing he doesn't agree with is my carb choice... lol
Your carb choice is suspect, I have to agree on that. Although I've seen better luck with the Edelbrocks than the Holleys. Best carb to use is a downdraft Weber. If you have time and patience you could do a hogged out Nikki that would work well too.
Your carb choice is suspect, I have to agree on that. Although I've seen better luck with the Edelbrocks than the Holleys. Best carb to use is a downdraft Weber. If you have time and patience you could do a hogged out Nikki that would work well too.
I just like Eddy carbs.
I've run them on my V8 cars for years with good success. Hate fighting with Holley carbs..
But I'd also like to avoid a sidedraft setup. A downdraft would be cool, but I need a choke up here in the north counrty. Or I'd never be able to get it running. As for the Nikki, Rob told me that in a high performance setup they have a tendency to suck the bowls dry. So in my case it's off the table.
The Edelbrock 500cfm AVS carb is really simple to tune. I think it's worth a try.. If it doesn't work well, then I'll eat crow on it.. lol
I just like Eddy carbs.
I've run them on my V8 cars for years with good success. Hate fighting with Holley carbs..
But I'd also like to avoid a sidedraft setup. A downdraft would be cool, but I need a choke up here in the north counrty. Or I'd never be able to get it running. As for the Nikki, Rob told me that in a high performance setup they have a tendency to suck the bowls dry. So in my case it's off the table.
The Edelbrock 500cfm AVS carb is really simple to tune. I think it's worth a try.. If it doesn't work well, then I'll eat crow on it.. lol
Choke is over rated. I ran my Dell for years in Pittsburgh PA where it gets cold and never had an issue starting. Just had to feather it for a few seconds on startup. Same for my hogged nikki, it just has the choke cable connected to the fast idle, thats it.
You need a build thread for this thing somewhere. Sounds like a fun project.
Choke is over rated. I ran my Dell for years in Pittsburgh PA where it gets cold and never had an issue starting. Just had to feather it for a few seconds on startup. Same for my hogged nikki, it just has the choke cable connected to the fast idle, thats it.
You need a build thread for this thing somewhere. Sounds like a fun project.
I dunno about the no choke thing?
I've never had anything to do with Webber carbs in my life. But this whole idea is a learning curve for me. I'll see where I stand financially when I get to that point? The 4 barrel would be a little bit cheaper..
As for the build thread. I'm on it...
I just like Eddy carbs.
I've run them on my V8 cars for years with good success. Hate fighting with Holley carbs..
But I'd also like to avoid a sidedraft setup. A downdraft would be cool, but I need a choke up here in the north counrty. Or I'd never be able to get it running. As for the Nikki, Rob told me that in a high performance setup they have a tendency to suck the bowls dry. So in my case it's off the table.
The Edelbrock 500cfm AVS carb is really simple to tune. I think it's worth a try.. If it doesn't work well, then I'll eat crow on it.. lol
My Nikki keeps up with 8pounds on a 13B....
I don't like the idea of single throat carbs on rotaries. Never tried it but I just think that the fuel demands should be stepped like the engine (primary/secondary). Now if we have a PP engine; that almost screams single throat carbs.
Try Atkins seals for your first build... If you muck something up you didn't waste much money. Also, they seat so well; less bothersome for a rotary newb.
I don't like the idea of single throat carbs on rotaries. Never tried it but I just think that the fuel demands should be stepped like the engine (primary/secondary). Now if we have a PP engine; that almost screams single throat carbs.
Try Atkins seals for your first build... If you muck something up you didn't waste much money. Also, they seat so well; less bothersome for a rotary newb.
I'd still like to try the Edelbrock carb. Even with the controversy behind it. I think it'll work fine with the plan I have in my head...
As for the Atkins Apex seals. Do you mean the standard seals, or the cryo treated ones?
I know I'm a noob at this. But still plan a pretty big port that should make power to 9000rpm. Would those seals keep up at those rotor speeds?
I'd still like to try the Edelbrock carb. Even with the controversy behind it. I think it'll work fine with the plan I have in my head...
As for the Atkins Apex seals. Do you mean the standard seals, or the cryo treated ones?
I know I'm a noob at this. But still plan a pretty big port that should make power to 9000rpm. Would those seals keep up at those rotor speeds?
The Edelbrock might be fine for you. I had a 600 on my first RX7. I didn't tinker too much with it, but I never had any complaints other than cornering. It was kinda fat but I daily drove it and it fired up an ran every day.
I can tell you from personal experience that the rotor bearings will seize before the apex seals do any damage on a slightly ported S5 4 port engine. When I put my S5 together I had never experienced electronic ignition. And I drove around with the tac pegged. I was so amazed that the ignition could keep up, because my previous ignition was points based (points break up at 7 or 8k). That engine lasted about a month. LOL, And that's how I know about bearing replacement. The housings on that engine looked fine on tear down.
I've never built a 12A so I can't comment on 3mm apex seals. I hear (and it makes sense) that the thicker apex seals don't like engine speed. I personally wouldn't try to build a high revving 3mm sealed engine. Seems like too much of a pain, but obviously people have before and still do. If it were me I wouldn't throw much money at it; until I gained a further understanding of it. I'd put it together and if the seals don't last.... Ok do it again.
The Edelbrock might be fine for you. I had a 600 on my first RX7. I didn't tinker too much with it, but I never had any complaints other than cornering. It was kinda fat but I daily drove it and it fired up an ran every day.
I can tell you from personal experience that the rotor bearings will seize before the apex seals do any damage on a slightly ported S5 4 port engine. When I put my S5 together I had never experienced electronic ignition. And I drove around with the tac pegged. I was so amazed that the ignition could keep up, because my previous ignition was points based (points break up at 7 or 8k). That engine lasted about a month. LOL, And that's how I know about bearing replacement. The housings on that engine looked fine on tear down.
I've never built a 12A so I can't comment on 3mm apex seals. I hear (and it makes sense) that the thicker apex seals don't like engine speed. I personally wouldn't try to build a high revving 3mm sealed engine. Seems like too much of a pain, but obviously people have before and still do. If it were me I wouldn't throw much money at it; until I gained a further understanding of it. I'd put it together and if the seals don't last.... Ok do it again.
I never really thought much about the ignition..
I've been so focused on internals, I kinda let that slip my mind.
But I do hear what your saying from a finanial standpoint. I just want to put money where it should go to protect the motor from any real damage, should things not work...
Like using the competition rotor bearings, and windowed stationary gear bearings. I contacted Atkins earlier about they'e Apex, and side seals. I was told that they should work fine, but again they are just trying to sell ****.
I'm gonna give them a shot though.
The last thing on my mind would be corner seals?
Should I use a 2 piece factory style with the rubber plugs, or jump up to the solid style ones that Atkins offers?
Which is better, and why???
01-02-18, 12:19 PM
