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I recently purchased a 1980 Mazda rx7 with a 12a and a 5 speed in it from Nebraska (6 hours from me) and I brought the car home. The engine was supposedly rebuilt and it just needed the carb and the starter thrown on to run. Today I bolted on the starter and bolted on the factory carb, I threw a hot battery in it and the engine cranks but won't start. I pulled a leading plug and attached it to the plug boot and turned it over and got nothing. I then ran two wires from the positive terminal on the battery directly to the coils and it still wouldn't spark. I'm at a loss as to where to check next. Any help is appreciated.
Looks like a bunch of extra wiring and some relays for something. You might disconnect the power wire to those right now. You'll want to trace those out so you know what they are used for.
The foxed.ca website that has the manuals seems to go up and down often and is down right now. Once it is back, download any/all manuals for the 1980.
My suggestion is to get the wiring diagram and trace out every wire in the factory ignition system to ensure it is connected correctly. I know it's work, but this will ensure someone haven't mis-wired something. the 1980 is a little different then the 1981-1985 in regards to the way the electronic ignition is configured with the igniters. The 1879 (and all rotaries before) use points..Do not remove the dizzy at this point. The first choir is to establish spark. After that, then timing can be looked at.
I would not try to rewire anything to other then factory wiring yet. Get it running first with the factory configuration. It's best to start with a known reference so that folks can help better.
There are others on this site with a LOT more knowledge about the 1980 ignition system then myself. I'm sure one of them will chime in.
Last edited by KansasCityREPU; 10-18-19 at 11:02 PM.
The relay goes to the electric fans, my whole plane was to find an rx7 and swap the 12a and 5 speed ensemble into my 1989 b2200 pickup. I think it'd be an awesome combo, I am trying my best to learn about the ignition systems on these cars. Seems to vary a lot year to year. Is it worth trouble shooting the ignition system or should I go a different route with msd for my swap. I honestly wanted to get it running in this car first but this seems like it's going nowhere fast. I honestly cannot thank you enough KansasCityRepu, finding any info on this exact year car is harder than I had even imagined. Hope I can get her to roar to life again.
Originally Posted by KansasCityREPU
Looks like a bunch of extra wiring and some relays for something. You might disconnect the power wire to those right now. You'll want to trace those out so you know what they are used for.
The foxed.ca website that has the manuals seems to go up and down often and is down right now. Once it is back, download any/all manuals for the 1980.
My suggestion is to get the wiring diagram and trace out every wire in the factory ignition system to ensure it is connected correctly. I know it's work, but this will ensure someone haven't mis-wired something. the 1980 is a little different then the 1981-1985 in regards to the way the electronic ignition is configured with the igniters. The 1879 (and all rotaries before) use points..Do not remove the dizzy at this point. The first choir is to establish spark. After that, then timing can be looked at.
There are others on this site with a LOT more knowledge about the 1980 ignition system then myself. I'm sure one of them will chime in.
In your photo of the coils, the "ignitor" box is right there on the front face of the driver strut tower. The ignitors (1980 only) are attached to the back of this unit. I see a lot of corrosion there so you will want to make sure connections and leads are rust-free, including the battery cables and their ends. And there is a Fuse Box also on that same strut tower, "around the corner" from the Ignition Box. Check the three fusible links attached to make sure they are OK. New plugs, ignition wires, dizzy cap and rotor would be a good start!
Is this plug that's coming from the igniter box supposed to plug in somewhere? The issue seems I'm missing part of the harness. Seriously can't thank you guys enough for your help.
I am swapping the 12a from my 1980 rx7 and the trans into my 1989 b2200, I wanted to get the swap running in the car so I can assure the engine is solid before fabrication into my truck. I can't get it running in the car and it seems like the wiring is missing parts. Can I go msd like this link says with my 1980 12a? > MSD 6A direct fire Ignition for Mazda RX-7 Rotary Engine - Dr. Scott M. Baker
I am swapping the 12a from my 1980 rx7 and the trans into my 1989 b2200, I wanted to get the swap running in the car so I can assure the engine is solid before fabrication into my truck. I can't get it running in the car and it seems like the wiring is missing parts. Can I go msd like this link says with my 1980 12a? > MSD 6A direct fire Ignition for Mazda RX-7 Rotary Engine - Dr. Scott M. Baker
-any input is greatly appreciated
MSD is a good choice. I suggest getting a 1981-1985 dizzy with ignitors and wiring harness and ditch the 1980 bits.
What all would be required to run my 12a with a 1981 - 1985 rx7 distributor. Would I need just the dizzy and use my stock 1980 coils or would I need the 81-85 coils and the distributor. There are some *standalone* kind of wiring harnesses you can make to go from the coils to the igniter on the cap and so long as the coils have power it should run...if I'm correct? Sorry to ask a million questions, just wanna hear this motor roar to life. I'm not sure if it's even any "good". Wanted to try to fire it first. Thanks again
Originally Posted by KansasCityREPU
Yes - 81-85 dizzy has the igniters in the distributor.
If these male spades aren't connected to anything will the plugs still fire? In not then that is my problem, where do they go.? The female plug seems missing. This is a picture of my distributor at the moment
It's time to download the factory wiring diagram and validate the wiring before we go any further. Without understand how the factory wiring works, doing any mods is fruitless.
That is an 81-85 dizzy. Not sure what the previous owner was up to, but like I just said, you've got a later dizzy with the factory '80 control box still in place. I would personally suggest a DLIDFIS setup. I can give more info when I'm through here.
If you don't know if the engine is good, do a quick compression test (there is plenty of info out there) before you go spending money to make or buy a new ignition system.
Can you answer a couple of questions for me please? I think you're on to something with the DLIDFIS setup given the circumstances of what I have. I have found a few writeups on doing this with 2 GM DR100 ignitors wired to 2 new stock coils, mounted on the strut towers. My questions is if the two DR100 ignitors go to the two coils for the leading plus, wouldn't my two factory coils have to spark the trailing plugs? And if so, it seems the DLIDFIS only solves the no spark on my leading plugs and not my trailing plugs. Sorry this is so complicated, I just wanna get this car up and running. Thank you for giving me a straight answer as to what dizzy I have.
First things first, DLIDFIS stands for Dual Leading Ignitor Direct Fire Ignition System - in case you didn't already know; I had a heck of a time figuring that out originally... That said, there are two ignitors and coils for leading (hence the direct fire nature). Trailing, however, still runs like stock (although you can swap the plug wire positions to the leading ones on the cap for one less air gap, but that's not necessary for it to work). This is due to the timing of trailing compared to leading, and how leading is capable of running as 'wasted spark' without negative repercussions. Trailing cannot do this, and therefore it must be run through the dizzy unless you want to try and figure out a different system for it (I think some later gen 7's used a dual post trailing coil for that purpose, but don't quote me on that). Anyway, there are many flavors of DLIDFIS setups, such as the one you found. For my setup I went with a seperate plate rather than mounting them on the strut tower, it's really just up to you. Trailing will end up using only one coil, and you will need to run a positive and trigger wire from that coil to the trailing ignitor on the dizzy (which stays on the dizzy, intact). The leading ignitor is replaced by the two DR100's (or other similar modules), and how that works is up to you. If both of your current ignitors work ok (there is a method for bench testing them with a 9V somewhere around here) I would highly suggest against gutting one for the leading 'adapter'. They are expensive and you will still be using one for trailing, so a spare isn't a bad thing.
That tutorial you found probably covers most things (there are a few out there), but if you have additional questions, feel free to ask.
The short answer is that DLIDFIS, as the name suggests, only changes the leading spark situation. However, getting trailing wired up is really easy (literally two wires depending on the state of your harness). You can go ahead and remove the stock ignition box as well, as it won't be doing anything anymore (I have an '80 as well if that gives any peace of mind) - but don't trash it, someone may want it someday.
I have a thread that's not too old on the subject as well (note, I didn't end up using a 1980 dizzy as the title suggests), although it's more work-in-progress stuff than an actual tutorial. Might give some ideas though: DLIDFIS with 1980 dizzy
I should have said this before, but if you just want to fire the engine (and even drive it - you don't need more than 'stock' for that ) you can just wire the leading like you would the trailing and leave everything going through the cap. Essentially you need the positive and trigger for leading (coil to ignitor) and for trailing (ditto). You'll have a functioning ignition system without buying anything more than wire and spade/ring terminals and you can still do DLIDFIS later down the road if you want. You also still don't need the stock ignition box, so go ahead and pull it out regardless.
The stock '80 coils are Diamond's I believe and should be the same as the FB's. If you go DFI of any sort, use the same type/age/brand of coil for both of the leading 'systems'. For example, I purchased two new coils for leading and used the stock one for trailing, leaving one as a spare.
Benjamin4456. You just answered all of my questions, thank you for being so thorough with your information. I may have to go Dildfis because the leading igniter is missing off my distributor. The trailing is still on the other side. Can't imagine why they'd only pull the igniter side. If I'm gonna get an igniter I may as well go Dildfid. You are a total life saver. Thank you thank you sir.
Originally Posted by Benjamin4456
I should have said this before, but if you just want to fire the engine (and even drive it - you don't need more than 'stock' for that ) you can just wire the leading like you would the trailing and leave everything going through the cap. Essentially you need the positive and trigger for leading (coil to ignitor) and for trailing (ditto). You'll have a functioning ignition system without buying anything more than wire and spade/ring terminals and you can still do DLIDFIS later down the road if you want. You also still don't need the stock ignition box, so go ahead and pull it out regardless.
The stock '80 coils are Diamond's I believe and should be the same as the FB's. If you go DFI of any sort, use the same type/age/brand of coil for both of the leading 'systems'. For example, I purchased two new coils for leading and used the stock one for trailing, leaving one as a spare.
Glad to be of help. And yeah, DLIDFIS will potentially be cheaper (and better) than a new ignitor, so might as well. Perhaps they took it off because they were running a similar modified setup before, who knows...
Best of luck with the install.
Edit: If you really want to just try the engine, you can run on leading only with no issues. To do so, simply move the ignitor over (use thermal paste between it and dizzy) to the leading spot and add the wires I mentioned before. Not like you have to, but ya know, if the bug gets you...
Last edited by Benjamin4456; 10-21-19 at 12:12 AM.
I did get the engine to run on the leading ignitor only, and im sure ill have to go dildfis but for now I wanted to see if I could get the engine to run as I bought the car for $500 with a supposedly rebuilt engine only to find it has a cobbled up nightmare of an ignition system. I pulled the stock ignitor box off the strut tower and removed the two j105 ignitors. I tested the j109 that was on the 81-85 dizzy and it seems junked. I swapped a j105 onto the leading side of the distributor and wired it up to an ignition coil I had laying around. I ran a wire from the positive of the coil and the negative of the coil to another coil so i could fire two plugs like a sort of makeshift direct coil ignition system. It sparked both leading plugs at the same time and actually ran but ran like **** and immediately revved to high rpms. Will firing the engine like this damage it. I only ran it like this for this video to test if it even ran at all. Below is a link to the video I made showing the setup.
10-18-19, 07:47 PM
) you can just wire the leading like you would the trailing and leave everything going through the cap. Essentially you need the positive and trigger for leading (coil to ignitor) and for trailing (ditto). You'll have a functioning ignition system without buying anything more than wire and spade/ring terminals and you can still do DLIDFIS later down the road if you want. You also still don't need the stock ignition box, so go ahead and pull it out regardless.