still kicking around ideas for replacing the low comp 13b in my FB.

so far I have thought about...
-buy jdm motor
-buy already rebuilt engine
-rebuild my own short block
-pay a shop to rebuild mine short block

keep in mind this is the first time I have needed to replace the engine (previous owner was on engine 6 i wanna say) I would like this to be a learning process which leads me to doing it myself. I bought the mazdatrix rebuild dvd but have not finished watching it and somewhere on my comp I have the s5 fsm saved. Any other material which would be critical to have on hand for when the time comes ?

I guess why i'm posting is engine rebuilds are new to me and I'm looking for advice, any of those 'doing it the hard way' stories you have to share I would like to hear so maybe I can plan ahead and be aware of what is waiting. Such as brands, parts, seals, methods, tricks, tips, DO NOTs ecetera. I wanna do things right and I plan to use quality pieces
Thanks

Because knowing is Half the battle!

 

I thought you had built your Turbo FB yourself?

You need to take yours apart to help you decide which way to go, and see what's salvageable.

 

You have to buy a lot of tools and cleaning supplies to rebuild it. Are you prepared to shell out some bucks? I bought:
10 gallon parts washer $69
Engine stand - $49 on sale
Engine stand adaptor to bolt a rotary to it - $60
feeler gauges
two bore gauges - rotor bearings and main bearings are a totally different size
one digital dial gauge that goes down to .0001" accuracy
A set of micrometers from harbor freight - $39
A high quality 3"-4" micrometer that goes down to .0001" accuracy to measure rotor and housing width $60
About $250 worth of cleaning supplies - brushes, wire wheels for dremel, green scotchbrite pads, green & red scotchbrite discs for dremel w/mandrel, lots of simple green & purple power. Mineral spirits dissolve silicone very well. More brushes. Gobs of shop towels and ACETONE. My trash bin is a superfund site.
$60 worth of silicone, hylomar, and blue loctite gel.
Already had the torque wrench & sockets

Then the seals & hard parts you need to rebuild.

Every part in my motor is MAZDA factory stuff. Most garage rebuild problems occur under the front cover. Some people don't check or set the end play right, pinch a torrington bearing, the key for the oil pump falls out or they don't torque the oil pump to factory specs or don't bend the lock washer. Loctite both pressure regulators, the oil pickup tube, the oil pump bolts, and flywheel nut in place. Measure everything there is a spec for and watch the Mazdatrix DVD 5 times until you can recite it in your sleep.

 

i bought the car already build by a local guy, he did most the work himself and had it pretty well figured out. I only wish i knew a fraction what the previous owner knew, he was smart guy!

 

tools i already have on hand to use

5 gallon parts washer (not sure what to use to clean the internals with, suggestions ?)
engine stand (still need the rotary adapter, where to buy?)
engine puller/hoist
jack stands, floor jack
torque wrench
compress air ratchet
breaker bar
many sockets, ratchets, wrenches of varying size
micrometer (not sure the decimal accuracy)
piston engine comp tester

 

Direct, I will deff be taking the sandwich apart soon as the weather becomes better here, I don't have a garage and its pretty miserable 99% of the time. I guess what needs to happen is for me to break it apart, clean everything, then post some pics asking for 'reuse' or 'garbage' opinions, also I'm unsure of the tolerance measurements locations and how to measure. I plan on doing things right on this car, I'm in no rush to have it driving by any deadline but I sure do miss the sensory overload it gave me

Drviefast, all the locals I talk to agree with oem mazda for the seals. When you say all your internals are mazda oem, does that mean I could go to the mazda dealership and buy a 'oem rebuild kit' ? or would everything need to be purchased separate?

 

You are sooo close to Atkins. Just take it apart, see what you need and call Dan. It'll be much cheaper.

 

You would spend a ton of time at the parts counter as they look up what you need. There are OEM gasket kits (soft parts) and such but when it comes to all the hard parts they have to look everything up. MUCH better to go to Atkins and buy. Look at their website, it is excellent and has good prices.

You can get the rotary adaptor for the stand from Pineapple or Atkins.

http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...r-p-16789.html

 

so I took the engine block apart, here is what I found,

all 3 apex seals on the rear rotor are ruined, 1 dislodged from the rotor completely and its where abouts are unknown, 1 apex seal was bent and in place and 1 seemed to have a crack in and in place. the rotor is scratched and gouged, needs to be replaced.

front rotor and housing looked good!

E-shaft looked fine!

I saw some minor gouches and scratches on the rear housing, I will be sending pics to http://goopyperformance.com/content/...g-refurbishing find out if they can be re freshed and re used.

My rear rotor has gouges in the face, seems like garbage now.

My front iron was missing a chunk near the coolant passage at the 7pm position, that is garbage too.

The center and rear irons have misc wear marks and 1 tini scratch near the exhaust side.

 

I plan on buying 3 lapped housings from a local.

Then I gotta source a matching weight rear rotor

then I need to talk to goopy about the housings

also plan on using simple green to clean what I think is reuseable (frt rotor/frt housing/ maybe rr housing)

 

update, I have been cleaning and doing a bunch of premeditated busy work while i source all the hard engine parts. Last week I purchased a very very good condition lapped T2 irons (front/center/rear), which I am very pleased with and will work great with my build, I was also fortunate enough to be gifted a soft seal set at the same time The same seller who I purchased the irons off has a match weight s5 turbo rotors for sale which I wanna pick up too barring condition and price. I also sent pictures and spoke with Goopy briefly about housing refurbishing, it sounds like my old rear housing could 'work' but would not be ideal. So i think I will go a different route and find a new housing. Do it right the first time! thats the plan at least...

New question,
Adrian (Hyper4mance2k) and I were on the phone and he ran an interesting idea by me, basically taking a rear S5 N/A housings and swapping over my rear T2 housings exhaust insert into the S5 N/A housings.
If anyone has done this or has a link to a write up I would be on that like bee's on honey!

 

I've swapped sleeves before. It's tough (for me at least). There are two ways to do it. One way is to use a mig welder and weld to the roll pin. I haven't tried this method but the weld will not stick to the aluminum so this is fairly safe to do I understand. I don't know any of the details other than you are supposed to grab the weld lump with a vice grip and pull.

The method I used was to take a drywall screw and screw it into the roll pin. You have to grind into it with a diamond dremel bit first and lots of wd40 or similar to keep the bit cool and lubed. I can't remember if I needed to heat the housing with a propane torch. Anyway you thread the screw into the enlarged hole created by the dremel bit, then use a claw hammer and a block of wood or 1/4" aluminum plate (to protect the housing) then you carefully extract the roll pin like a nail. I broke a few drywall screws so this gives you an idea of how tight the roll pins are in there (the head would separate from the screw). Or the screw would slip out of the roll pin, ruining the threads in the process so I'd have to try again with another screw.

So that's two ways to extract the roll pins. There's probably more. The drywall screw method worked for me, but it is very involved and you need the patience of a saint and be willing to spend hours on this. If you break something irreparably, don't come crying. You've been warned.

 

Drywall screws are designed to not be strong, theyre meant to be light and cheap. After all, they only hold drywall. Ive broken heads off them putting them in drywall before, lol. I would try a self tapping metal screw just reading that description.

~T.J.

 

as Jeff said, there are other methods, so here's one.

what i did was to basically grind away the parts of the sleeve that are in line with the pins. once it's done, you can just push the pins all the way through. pins come out intact and ready to use again.

for reassembly, you'll have to have the holes welded shut though. there's a thread about it around here, somewhere.

 

The drywall screws I used were 20 years old and looked to be of a better design than some recently made ones I've seen (cheap chinese probably).

I first tried the screws BDC recommended. http://bdc.cyberosity.com/main.php?g2_itemId=806 They didn't work at all. So in desperation I tested some drywall screws and only the old school design worked.

 

thanks, interesting guys, I'm going to give this a go.

please update this thread with any other links to write ups or how to's

 

I'm going to have to look into that one, Jeff. I normally have moderate success with the zinc panhead screws but I usually go through a few before I get one to really seat in the pin where I can then pry it out. Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try!

B

 

thanks for the tips all!

still looking for a s5 N/A or s5 T2 rear housing, anyone feel free to pm me with offers.

I have a lead on a matched set of s5 turbo rotors and a apex seal kit. Still waiting to hear back on a price but I have an idea I will be getting quite the deal. Stay tuned...

 

I bought those exact screws you recommended on the site and they didn't work at all. The steel was way too soft. Every screw I tried had threads that went flat. Then I switched to the drywall screws and they worked after only a few tries.

But yes several of them went dull as well until I found some 20 year old designs from like 1990 or whenever I got into making speaker boxes. This kind worked for two or three pins until they'd either loose their heads or the threads would get dull. But the cool part is head loss equals really strong hard threads and maybe slightly brittle steel. I never had one brake off inside the pin and hopefully never will.

 

Sounds like a good deal. I'm gonna be building an FD/T2 hybrid for a local rotorhead soon for his 1st gen. I wonder if I should start a thread about it.

 

^It would be really cool if you did, take lots of pics
I'm going at this thing 1st try and I know I would love an experienced local rotorhead to bounce ideas off.

 

dub post

 

So far I am $600 into my build
($300 for s5 T2 Lapped Irons set, coolant seals, oil ring seals, tension bolt seal)
and
($300 for set of s5 T2 rotors, oil rings, oil ring seals, side seals, side seal springs, apex seals, corner seals, corner seal springs)

I have a N/A housing being shipped for $90 on the way, and then this list of pieces to buy.

Anyone see small parts or seals I'm missing ?

 

Just bought a N/A housing from my buddy
$90, should be here in a week or two

grand total spent on rebuild so far $690

 

recommend Pineappleracing.com 's upgrade Water "0" rings. Improved tech over mazda on one of the weakest points in the engine. Worth a read. $$ but considering time and $$ your investing it is great insurance-
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska