(TURBO) TII swap into GSL-SE
05-08-02, 06:57 AM
#26
Originally posted by abeomid
well if you are planning to use a 12A tranny or even a GSL-SE tranny, you better have bunch of extra ones ready and get really good at chaning them
well if you are planning to use a 12A tranny or even a GSL-SE tranny, you better have bunch of extra ones ready and get really good at chaning them
Originally posted by peejay
You could, just stock them like cordwood in the garage and plan to get good at changing them...
You could, just stock them like cordwood in the garage and plan to get good at changing them...
05-10-02, 12:50 AM
#27
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Stock trans will hold up fine asa long as you dont beat the crud out of it.
My trans has 135+K and holds up fine, I use Redline Shockproof and MTL mixure. The weakest part is the diff.
Biggest problem with 1G trans. are sncros due to powershifting.
Note: Any part will fail if mistreated.
My trans has 135+K and holds up fine, I use Redline Shockproof and MTL mixure. The weakest part is the diff.
Biggest problem with 1G trans. are sncros due to powershifting.
Note: Any part will fail if mistreated.
05-21-02, 11:29 PM
#29
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I need to purchase a new Dig. camera so i can post photos of the finished product.
For people who have 81'-85' non SE i'm developing a plug in adapter for stock 87'-88' ECU 89'+ will come
later I'm hoping by the end of the summer.
If anyone has any Q's e-mail me directly. I be glad to help.
To answer a few Q's, The car runs great bust tires loose in 4'th gear when boost hits,With a hard shift And no trans problems.....
For people who have 81'-85' non SE i'm developing a plug in adapter for stock 87'-88' ECU 89'+ will come
later I'm hoping by the end of the summer.
If anyone has any Q's e-mail me directly. I be glad to help.
To answer a few Q's, The car runs great bust tires loose in 4'th gear when boost hits,With a hard shift And no trans problems.....
05-26-02, 05:16 PM
#32
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Thanks!
I will be detailing the modifications to the tranny mount on my website very soon. I had a bit of a problem, and managed to break out the rubber on the mount. Now I need a new series 5 center rubber tranny mount piece. 
Basically, the mount is custom, but not too difficult to do at home if you have a drill and maybe a Dremel. Mind you that this is for a series 5 tranny into a SE only. YMMV if you are using a 12A model or a series 4 or 6 tranny.
Using the stock SE motor mounts and the cross-member portion of the SE tranny mount, you are only going to be off by about an inch on the shifter position, so ignore all the BS you have heard about modifying the shifter linkage.
So, the stock SE rubber tranny mount piece (which bolts directly to the SE tranny) has only one bolt hole, and the TII rubber center piece (that you will need to attach to the TII tranny) has two studs. New holes must be drilled into the SE mount cross-member about 1/4" to the rear of the stock SE single hole, and obviously in the correct position to accept the twin studs. Then it's all a matter of making it all fit. Keep all the connecting points for all the mounts loose until everything is sitting properly.
Also, it seems to me that a little added tranny slack may be attainable by simply boring the four holes for the bolts through the TII center rubber mount about 1/8" towards the front of the car to allow that much more slack. I'll be trying this too, so if you are nervous about hacking things up, wait for the pics and stuff on my site.
Like I said, details will be on my website in a week or two. And pictures. I'm sure this babbling is none to discernable without pictures.
I will be detailing the modifications to the tranny mount on my website very soon.
I had a bit of a problem, and managed to break out the rubber on the mount. Now I need a new series 5 center rubber tranny mount piece. Basically, the mount is custom, but not too difficult to do at home if you have a drill and maybe a Dremel. Mind you that this is for a series 5 tranny into a SE only. YMMV if you are using a 12A model or a series 4 or 6 tranny.
Using the stock SE motor mounts and the cross-member portion of the SE tranny mount, you are only going to be off by about an inch on the shifter position, so ignore all the BS you have heard about modifying the shifter linkage.
So, the stock SE rubber tranny mount piece (which bolts directly to the SE tranny) has only one bolt hole, and the TII rubber center piece (that you will need to attach to the TII tranny) has two studs. New holes must be drilled into the SE mount cross-member about 1/4" to the rear of the stock SE single hole, and obviously in the correct position to accept the twin studs. Then it's all a matter of making it all fit. Keep all the connecting points for all the mounts loose until everything is sitting properly.
Also, it seems to me that a little added tranny slack may be attainable by simply boring the four holes for the bolts through the TII center rubber mount about 1/8" towards the front of the car to allow that much more slack. I'll be trying this too, so if you are nervous about hacking things up, wait for the pics and stuff on my site.
Like I said, details will be on my website in a week or two. And pictures. I'm sure this babbling is none to discernable without pictures.
05-30-02, 10:26 AM
#33
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Tranny mount issue continued...
Okay, my previous post has some misinformation in it. Sorry.
Here's the deal: I took both trannys and mount sets in to a custom fab shop and said "make this one fit on the chassis where this one fits now". So they cut the flat ears off the GSL-SE mount (piece that houses the rubber cushion) and fabbed up some 45° angled ears to match the TII tranny mount.
Pictures of what I am babbling about.
So, making it work is not quite as simple as I described above, although that drilling and dremeling modification must still be done to make things line up, even with the ears welded on, unless the ears are welded in the correct position to fit without further modification.
Sorry for speaking out before I had all the facts straight.
Here's the deal: I took both trannys and mount sets in to a custom fab shop and said "make this one fit on the chassis where this one fits now". So they cut the flat ears off the GSL-SE mount (piece that houses the rubber cushion) and fabbed up some 45° angled ears to match the TII tranny mount.
Pictures of what I am babbling about.
So, making it work is not quite as simple as I described above, although that drilling and dremeling modification must still be done to make things line up, even with the ears welded on, unless the ears are welded in the correct position to fit without further modification.
Sorry for speaking out before I had all the facts straight.
05-30-02, 06:00 PM
#34
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Do the 89-91 T2 transmissions have a different mounting point than the 87-88? Looks like you went through a lot of trouble to make that fit. I just took the stock -se crossmember and made a spacer plate to raise the trans up and thats all. Sounds like you wen't through a lot of extra work to make it fit??
Here's a bad pic of the alum spacer I made
Here's a bad pic of the alum spacer I made
Last edited by setzep; 05-30-02 at 06:06 PM.
05-30-02, 08:21 PM
#35
Sorry Guys, I decided to use this as my running parts list. I will add to it, change it, and so on as the project continues. It was originally a PM I sent to another member, and I posted it elsewhere (area 51). I figured it belongs here anyway.
N1XRR wrote on 05-17-02 03:48 PM:
Info? I got your stinkin’ Info right here!!.
First, let me tell you, a GSL-SE is the best model available to do a 13B Turbo transplant. It already has several things necessary to make the swap easier:
That is just the GSL-SE stuff. For my particular swap, you will still need:
SUSPENSION
GAUGES:
VDO 3 gauge “A” Pillar Pod with:
EVENTUALLY:
As you can see, MY parts list is quite extensive. Luckily I am about 90% of the way there. I will be completing this list within the next 60 days, and then tearing into the car shortly thereafter. I anticipate finishing by the end of the summer if it all works out.
By the way, this does not include Labor, misc parts, time, time, and did I mention time?
Also TOOLS. Engine lifts, engine stands, Air compressors, parts washers, extra nuts, bolts, aluminum sheets for fabricating, etc. Labor is very expensive, as only a real quality rotary mechanic can do this, unless you know how to do it yourself.
I will be doing most of it myself, with the exception of the fuel system, Haltech installation, tuning, and Dyno testing. All of which is very expensive as well.
As you can see, it is not easy, quick, or cheap. It is quite an expensive toy that will NEVER be worth what you put into it. In other words, even if you do a real awesome job, that looks like factory OEM - you will never even get half of the money you invested into it if you try to resell it.
Why I am I doing this? Because I have always wanted a Turbo 1st Gen since my first RX-7 over 14 years ago. I plan to keep it as long as I can, and make well over 400 hp to the rear wheels. It will be my “fun” car. Not a daily driver by any means.
Before you consider this route let me recommend a few things.
1) Have another Car for daily use (pick-up truck recommended)
1) Don’t start until you have all the parts you need. (you will need more than you think)
2) Unless you want more than 250 hp (which is a shitload for a 1st Gen),
go another route.
ANOTHER ROUTE:
1) Take your (12A) engine, rebuild it, Streetport it, get some nice headers and a good carb (Weber/Dellorto) and you’ll be at about 200 hp for less than $1200
2) Same thing, with a 13B = 230 hp, about $1500
3) Turbocharge your 12A. – Get a Holly 550, a Rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator, an Intercooler, an old RX-7 Turbo with manifold (modified), a locked distributor, and you’ll be at 220 HP on a stock port 12A, 250 HP with a Street Port. – Less than 2K
4) Turbocharge a 13B. – Get a Holly 550, a Rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator, an Intercooler, an old RX-7 Turbo with manifold, a locked distributor, and you’ll be at 240 HP on a stock port 12A, 280 HP with a Street Port. – Less than 2200
5) A Nitrous Oxide System. Good only on a Street or Bridge port, you must do this EXTREMELY Well, with plenty of safeguards to avoid blowing your engine. – Less than $500 for the kit, and Extra 50-75 HP over what you currently have.
I hope this has provided you with MORE THAN ENOUGH information concerning a swap like this. Go to the RX-7 Forum, the web and Read, Read, Read.
Check this particular thread for all the goodies:
TII Swap into GSL-SE
Good Luck and keep us posted!
N1XRR wrote on 05-17-02 03:48 PM:
Are you using the stock sequentials from the Cosmo? I have a 1st gen that needs a new drive-line(nice body, bad diff and engine) and I had been concidering going with a 12A-T...but the Cosmo engines also seem pretty good. Any info?
Aftermarket ECU? Much fabrication?
Aftermarket ECU? Much fabrication?
First, let me tell you, a GSL-SE is the best model available to do a 13B Turbo transplant. It already has several things necessary to make the swap easier:
That is just the GSL-SE stuff. For my particular swap, you will still need:
SUSPENSION
GAUGES:
VDO 3 gauge “A” Pillar Pod with:
EVENTUALLY:
As you can see, MY parts list is quite extensive. Luckily I am about 90% of the way there. I will be completing this list within the next 60 days, and then tearing into the car shortly thereafter. I anticipate finishing by the end of the summer if it all works out.
By the way, this does not include Labor, misc parts, time, time, and did I mention time?
Also TOOLS. Engine lifts, engine stands, Air compressors, parts washers, extra nuts, bolts, aluminum sheets for fabricating, etc. Labor is very expensive, as only a real quality rotary mechanic can do this, unless you know how to do it yourself.
I will be doing most of it myself, with the exception of the fuel system, Haltech installation, tuning, and Dyno testing. All of which is very expensive as well.
As you can see, it is not easy, quick, or cheap. It is quite an expensive toy that will NEVER be worth what you put into it. In other words, even if you do a real awesome job, that looks like factory OEM - you will never even get half of the money you invested into it if you try to resell it.
Why I am I doing this? Because I have always wanted a Turbo 1st Gen since my first RX-7 over 14 years ago. I plan to keep it as long as I can, and make well over 400 hp to the rear wheels. It will be my “fun” car. Not a daily driver by any means.
Before you consider this route let me recommend a few things.
1) Have another Car for daily use (pick-up truck recommended)
1) Don’t start until you have all the parts you need. (you will need more than you think)
2) Unless you want more than 250 hp (which is a shitload for a 1st Gen),
go another route.
ANOTHER ROUTE:
1) Take your (12A) engine, rebuild it, Streetport it, get some nice headers and a good carb (Weber/Dellorto) and you’ll be at about 200 hp for less than $1200
2) Same thing, with a 13B = 230 hp, about $1500
3) Turbocharge your 12A. – Get a Holly 550, a Rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator, an Intercooler, an old RX-7 Turbo with manifold (modified), a locked distributor, and you’ll be at 220 HP on a stock port 12A, 250 HP with a Street Port. – Less than 2K
4) Turbocharge a 13B. – Get a Holly 550, a Rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator, an Intercooler, an old RX-7 Turbo with manifold, a locked distributor, and you’ll be at 240 HP on a stock port 12A, 280 HP with a Street Port. – Less than 2200
5) A Nitrous Oxide System. Good only on a Street or Bridge port, you must do this EXTREMELY Well, with plenty of safeguards to avoid blowing your engine. – Less than $500 for the kit, and Extra 50-75 HP over what you currently have.
I hope this has provided you with MORE THAN ENOUGH information concerning a swap like this. Go to the RX-7 Forum, the web and Read, Read, Read.
Check this particular thread for all the goodies:
TII Swap into GSL-SE
Good Luck and keep us posted!
05-30-02, 09:49 PM
#36
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I'm trying to avoid a solid (metal to metal) mount because I have dental work, and would hate to have it fixed frequently.
If worse comes to worse, I will go with a solid mount, but for the time being, I am using personal contacts to attempt to "fix" the custom mount in the pictures.
You're in Lakeville aren't you setzep? You should come up and take a looksie some time. If you want to, PM me for my address and phone number. I'd like to take a look at your Frankenseven project as well.
If worse comes to worse, I will go with a solid mount, but for the time being, I am using personal contacts to attempt to "fix" the custom mount in the pictures.
You're in Lakeville aren't you setzep? You should come up and take a looksie some time. If you want to, PM me for my address and phone number. I'd like to take a look at your Frankenseven project as well.
05-30-02, 10:08 PM
#37
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Originally posted by NOTA V6
I'm trying to avoid a solid (metal to metal) mount because I have dental work, and would hate to have it fixed frequently.
If worse comes to worse, I will go with a solid mount, but for the time being, I am using personal contacts to attempt to "fix" the custom mount in the pictures.
You're in Lakeville aren't you setzep? You should come up and take a looksie some time. If you want to, PM me for my address and phone number. I'd like to take a look at your Frankenseven project as well.
I'm trying to avoid a solid (metal to metal) mount because I have dental work, and would hate to have it fixed frequently.
If worse comes to worse, I will go with a solid mount, but for the time being, I am using personal contacts to attempt to "fix" the custom mount in the pictures.
You're in Lakeville aren't you setzep? You should come up and take a looksie some time. If you want to, PM me for my address and phone number. I'd like to take a look at your Frankenseven project as well.
I didn't realise you were in bloomington, damn thats pretty close to me. When are you normaly around?
05-30-02, 10:45 PM
#38
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I just assumed that those tiny rubber pieces wouldn't provide much in the way of dampening.
How thick is your aluminum spacer plate? I mean how far off the saddle/cross-member does it raise the bottom of the tranny?
How thick is your aluminum spacer plate? I mean how far off the saddle/cross-member does it raise the bottom of the tranny?
06-04-02, 05:56 PM
#39
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Questipn, will i have to go through this much trouble if i want to swap a normal N/A 13B into my FB RX? See, i'm still a young kid and hev time to do everything i want to do and still need a bit of experince before i start hitting 200hp, SO, i was wondering, would i go through as much trouble to just put in a 13B N/A? Should i get a GSL-SE engine or a 88 13b? I know a 13B 88 has more hp but i'm worried about time it's gonna take cause my 12A just **** itself, so i need to do this Quick, help me out here.
06-13-02, 07:33 AM
#40
Originally posted by gen1mike
Anyone done this swap into a non gsl-se? Is it very much harder? thanks
Anyone done this swap into a non gsl-se? Is it very much harder? thanks
Most of the links here are not necessarily for a GSL-SE. Right now I believe there's like 6 of us doing a 13BT swap of some kind here on the list, with a few others who have already completed it.
06-13-02, 07:13 PM
#41
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Jim- the spacer is 3/4" inch, this raised my transmission up to where the stock n/a trans sat. I could have just left it sit on the crossmember that way but then my driveshaft angle would have been different, though I'm not sure it would make a difference anyways.
gen1mike- My 83 is a non -se model, I did however put a full suspension from a 84-se under my car. Dirrect swap. I'm pretty sure the trans swap would be the same with a 12a car.
gen1mike- My 83 is a non -se model, I did however put a full suspension from a 84-se under my car. Dirrect swap. I'm pretty sure the trans swap would be the same with a 12a car.
06-14-02, 10:17 AM
#42
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details on my jc cosmo swap
hey guys i have been requested to give some details on my jc cosmo to 1st gen conversion
Engine & turbo details
- JC cosmo 13b, 8 extra dowels, large street port, built by dyson rotary www.dysonrotary.com.au
- Custom Garrett TA-45, running T-04 1.32 Exahust housing with P trim, and TA-45 76mm wheel and comp (have exact specs on comp side written down somewhere but can't find em )
- Custom exhaust manifold, with 45mm turbosmart external wastegate.
- 3.5" dump pipe, feeding into 3.5" highflow cat then into 3 custom 3.5" mufflers.
- Turbosmart Vee port blow off valve
- Turbosmart type 1 boost controller
- Pnumatic relieve valve that runs before boost controller so i can remove wastegate creep alltogether
- Large custom Micks Metal Craft FMIC with 3" piping
ECU & Fuel system
- Micotech MTX-8L ECU
- Ignition has 4x bosch coils, 1 for each spark plug
- 550cc Pri's and 1700cc sec's
- 1/2" fuel pickup feeding into carter lift pump, custom 2L surge tank, 2x Bosch 984 EFI pumps feeding through twin 3/8 lines
- Malpassi rissing rate regulator
Tranny and diff
- Series 5 turbo gearbox
- 1 tonne presure plate, with solid centre brass button clutch
- Ford 9" diff with 4.3:1 LSD centre
Misc
- Series 4 turbo 16 x 7" wheels (only on the back at the moment as i haven't yet changed the stud pattern on the front)
- Car looks stock from the outside
I think that is about it let me know if i have missed anything
ahhh how much power, the same turbo that i am using has produced 550 RWHP on a serries 4 street port motor @ 28PSI & C-16 fuel, my engine builder said i should get the same if not a bit more due to the larger ports etc in the cosmo engine. Remeber that power figure is on a dyno dynmaics chassis dyno which is popular in Aus, on an american dyno jet, that would be over 600 RWHP
In street trim on pump fuel, it makes around 400RWHP on 14-15 PSI
I have slapped a rough website with some pics and stuff http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~brap/index.html
If you get a chance check out www.dysonrotary.com.au they have an online store and stuff with lots of goodies
cheers
Lance
Engine & turbo details
- JC cosmo 13b, 8 extra dowels, large street port, built by dyson rotary www.dysonrotary.com.au
- Custom Garrett TA-45, running T-04 1.32 Exahust housing with P trim, and TA-45 76mm wheel and comp (have exact specs on comp side written down somewhere but can't find em
)- Custom exhaust manifold, with 45mm turbosmart external wastegate.
- 3.5" dump pipe, feeding into 3.5" highflow cat then into 3 custom 3.5" mufflers.
- Turbosmart Vee port blow off valve
- Turbosmart type 1 boost controller
- Pnumatic relieve valve that runs before boost controller so i can remove wastegate creep alltogether
- Large custom Micks Metal Craft FMIC with 3" piping
ECU & Fuel system
- Micotech MTX-8L ECU
- Ignition has 4x bosch coils, 1 for each spark plug
- 550cc Pri's and 1700cc sec's
- 1/2" fuel pickup feeding into carter lift pump, custom 2L surge tank, 2x Bosch 984 EFI pumps feeding through twin 3/8 lines
- Malpassi rissing rate regulator
Tranny and diff
- Series 5 turbo gearbox
- 1 tonne presure plate, with solid centre brass button clutch
- Ford 9" diff with 4.3:1 LSD centre
Misc
- Series 4 turbo 16 x 7" wheels (only on the back at the moment as i haven't yet changed the stud pattern on the front)
- Car looks stock from the outside
I think that is about it let me know if i have missed anything
ahhh how much power, the same turbo that i am using has produced 550 RWHP on a serries 4 street port motor @ 28PSI & C-16 fuel, my engine builder said i should get the same if not a bit more due to the larger ports etc in the cosmo engine. Remeber that power figure is on a dyno dynmaics chassis dyno which is popular in Aus, on an american dyno jet, that would be over 600 RWHP
In street trim on pump fuel, it makes around 400RWHP on 14-15 PSI
I have slapped a rough website with some pics and stuff http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~brap/index.html
If you get a chance check out www.dysonrotary.com.au they have an online store and stuff with lots of goodies
cheers
Lance
06-15-02, 06:02 PM
#43
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hey if anybodys interested they can check my cars progress out. it needs some major tuning and exhaust rebending but i have drivien it aorund my nieghbor hood for 5 min and it didnt die! new pics are up on www.picturetrail.com visit rx7power for the pics and folder new pics. i took them on thursday so there pretty recnet now
new pics are up on www.picturetrail.com visit rx7power for the pics and folder new pics. i took them on thursday so there pretty recnet now
06-22-02, 10:36 PM
#46
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This is just a guess, but I think it would be lighter, not heavier. There are more aluminum bolt on parts on the TII motors (water pump housing, etc.), and the rotors themselves lighter too.
It's the stuff the GSL-SE didin't have at all that will add the weight to the TII engine. Turbo, wastegate, and an IC with piping adds up. The TII transmission is a LOT beefier than the GSL-SE tranny too, as is the drive shaft if you are planning on using them.
It's the stuff the GSL-SE didin't have at all that will add the weight to the TII engine. Turbo, wastegate, and an IC with piping adds up.
The TII transmission is a LOT beefier than the GSL-SE tranny too, as is the drive shaft if you are planning on using them.
06-25-02, 02:54 AM
#48
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I finally got my 13bt powered 1st gen running. Got the haltech intercooler and piping in and drove it around a little in front of my house. I cant drive it very far I have no exhaust yet just a RB 3inch down pipe its kinda loud. Id like to know what kind of muffler you guys doing this swap (or have already done it) are going to use. Id like the car to be quite so im looking to find a large 3inch inlet twin tip outlet muffler with stainless steel packing any ideas? The only one ive found so far is made by borla but looking at the design it looks like it may be a bit loud. Here is a pic of my car so far I have many more but im to lazy to put them up on my webpage right now.
06-27-02, 07:47 PM
#49
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Am I blind or did you just forget to post the pic?
As long as I'm posting here I might as well make it constructive.
For any one who is doing the swap to a cosmo engine in the future and wants to use the serpintine belt here is a pic for ya that I took the other day. The belt you want is 5-rib 32" long. They didn't have a 32" at my local parts store so I went with a 32.5 and that works, also by from looking at it you could go from anywhere 31.5-32.5 length belt.
As long as I'm posting here I might as well make it constructive.
For any one who is doing the swap to a cosmo engine in the future and wants to use the serpintine belt here is a pic for ya that I took the other day. The belt you want is 5-rib 32" long. They didn't have a 32" at my local parts store so I went with a 32.5 and that works, also by from looking at it you could go from anywhere 31.5-32.5 length belt.
Last edited by setzep; 06-27-02 at 07:49 PM.
06-27-02, 11:24 PM
#50
Originally posted by setzep
Am I blind or did you just forget to post the pic?
As long as I'm posting here I might as well make it constructive.
For any one who is doing the swap to a cosmo engine in the future and wants to use the serpintine belt here is a pic for ya that I took the other day. The belt you want is 5-rib 32" long. They didn't have a 32" at my local parts store so I went with a 32.5 and that works, also by from looking at it you could go from anywhere 31.5-32.5 length belt.
Am I blind or did you just forget to post the pic?
As long as I'm posting here I might as well make it constructive.
For any one who is doing the swap to a cosmo engine in the future and wants to use the serpintine belt here is a pic for ya that I took the other day. The belt you want is 5-rib 32" long. They didn't have a 32" at my local parts store so I went with a 32.5 and that works, also by from looking at it you could go from anywhere 31.5-32.5 length belt.
I'll just use the FB pulleys.
Revolution Rotary has a REAL Nice Kit for these as well.
They are polished Aluminum too! Too Much money though... $289