(INTAKE) Carb Crap...Nikki Mods - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

(INTAKE) Carb Crap...Nikki Mods

 

 
 
 
Old 02-27-02, 08:12 AM
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Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
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(INTAKE) Carb Crap...Nikki Mods

WHAT'S MORE FUN THAN TWO BARRELS OF MONKEYS?
...FOUR!

A carburetor needs adequate "air flow velocity" in order to have the fuel sucked out of the jets. If the venturis are too big, the carburetor will flow enough "volume" of air to feed the engine, but the "velocity" will be too slow to suck out the fuel through the jets. If they are too small, the velocity will allow enough fuel to be sucked into the carb, but there simply won't be enough air volume.

This is why oversized carbs disappoint people. There's no reason for the gapiing holes of a Holley 750 on a stock 12A rotary! It is also the reason why very small two barrel carbs will cause your rotary to have such a short powerband, yet a high peak horse power.

Because an engines requirements for air and fuel intake change with rpms, "one size venturi fits all rpms" does'nt really work to give us maximum performance. IDEALLY, (and someday I would like to try this, BTW!) there would be one venturi in a carburetor that acts like a cylindrical camera apperature that opens and closes in diameter with engine rpm....Not very practical.

Solution? Make more than one venturi in the carb, each with its own fuel jet from which the flow of air through the venturis can suck out. Each ventury has a fuel jet that is perfectly matched for its size to ensure that a rich mixture can be had with maximum air flow. (It's easy to regulate the fuel flow down from too rich). As one set of venturis begins to max out their air flow, another set begins to open.
In this mannor, effective velocity can be had over a greater range, ensuring a wider powerband. This makes your car "streetable".

The carburetor with 4 venturis is very much a design of "practicality". It allows the engine to breathe the perfect mixture over a wider range of rpms. If you take a good two barrel carburetor, and mate it to a rotary, there will be an RPM band up high where the engine is running with the maximum air flow, and perfect air/fuel ratio. But as you decrease rpms, the flow characteristics of that carb will not allow for the "perfect" conditions conducive to power output.

With a 4 barrel carb, you can have two points at which these conditions are met perfectly. When you have changeable jets and airbleeds, and therefore total tunability over the whole rpm range, you can make the transitions between those "perfect ratio spots" very subtle, so that the engine feels powerful all through the
power band. There are people who spend alot of time making four barrel carbs almost linear in their power band throughout as wide a power band as they can. Often there is a trade off, which is a bit of absolute high end power sacraficed for low end power.
Again...streetability.

The question remains often as a debate; but will ultimately be in the car owners hands as to which he needs most; An engine with a high peak horse power, but a narrow powerband, or an engine that has slightly less peak horse power, yet has a wide band.
Do you need a race car, or a street car?
People such as Paul Yaw, folks at Mazdatrix and Racing Beat, Pineapple racing, and many others have come close to obtaining both high end power usually associated with the Webers and Dellortos, and the wide power bands found in four barrels... in a four barrel application. But as yet in the world of carbs, there have always been, and probably always will be compromises.

Learn all you can.
Supidity is stupidity.
Not learning because you did'nt try is ignorance.
Niether is ever fast.


WHEN THE SECONDARIES OPEN...

Typically on a 4 barrel, the small "primary" venturis are opened for starting the car off, and cruising; just general driving. When it's time to pass someone, climb a hill, or just plain drive like a lunatic, the "secondary" venturis begin to open because the primary venturis have "maxed out" their airflow capabilities, AND/OR the corresponding "primary fuel jets" have maxed out their flow abilities, as well. Because the engine's still hungery, it's time to open up two more cans of beans. The same process starts for the secondaries.

A SMOOTH TRANSITION...

Ideally, we need the secondaries to "read" engine needs and cross reference that data with input data from the primaries. (Ahhh...screw it! Just get a fulie! KIDDING- I'm KIDDING!) Mechanical secondaries operate by having the secondary shaft linked to the primary shaft in such a mannor, that when the primaries are a certain
predetermined amount open, like about one third to half way, the secondary shaft will begin to open. As the primaries are slowly opened all the way, the secondaries are opening a bit faster than the primaries so that they are all finished with their stroke, and all four butterfly valves are straight up and down at the same time, allowing maximum flow.

In order to accomplish that, the linkage is hooked from an arm on the primary shaft to an arm on the secondary shaft; the linkage being a simple piece of heavy wire; the "arms" being more like cam shaped washers. But the length of the secondary arm is shorter than the length of the primary arm; and this is how the secondaries are able to finish their travel to WOT by the time the primaries do, even though they started to open
later than the primaries. For illustrative purposes, these cam shaped washers with different lobe lengths, and therefore different radii, can be thought of as a set of gears. The smaller diameter gear will turn more than the larger.

HOW THEY OPEN...

The stock Nikki carb is vacuum operated, but has its linkage set up in a mannor that is conducive to swapping to mechanical operation. The throttle shafts are honed flat on each side so that parts of the linkage can move the shaft, while other parts of the linkage can spin freely. There is a washer that can only move with the shaft on the primary shaft. It has a radial slot in the edge. There's another one right beside it, that can move freely, and has a tab that fits into the slot. This washer also has a small hole for one end of the linkage. There are two washers on the secondary shaft; One of these can move freely, while the other can only move with the shaft. These washers have tabs on them, as well. A heavy piece of wire links the primary shaft washer to the free-moving washer on the secondary shaft.

The throttle return spring holds the primaries closed. A spring is wrapped around the secondary shaft housing and hooked to the free spinning washer on the secondary shaft. The tab on that washer makes contact with the tab on the stationary washer, and so holds the shaft in the closed position. As the primaries are opened, the tab on the primary shaft attached washer slides along the radial slot in the free moving washer, untill it makes contact. Then, the primary shaft free moving washer, on which the wire linkage is attached, begins to move. This pulls on the spring loaded, free spinning washer on the secondary shaft, allowing the shaft to open.
But the shaft stays held closed!...By another funny business going on at the other end. And all this complexity is designed so that there is a certain amount of "free-play" in the primaries. That way, the secondaries are only allowed to begin opening when the primaries are already partially opened.

READING THIS SUCKS LESS THAN YOUR VACUUM SECONDARY ADVANCE BOX!...

There is an orifice in the front primary ventury that leads to a circuit that ends up at the box on the secondary side of the carb. In this box is a diaphragm that is hooked to a linkage that moves the secondary shaft. The diaphragm is spring loaded, and when there's enough vacuum present to overcome the spring tension, it sucks the diaphragm in which then pulls the shaft open.

The vaccum required to overcome the spring tension is substantial. Many people, including myself at one point, cut the spring in an effort to decrease the amount of vacuum necessary to prompt the secondaries to open. Removing the spring from the box alltogether basically renders it useless. The secondaries may then open with the slightest amount of decent vacuum present in the front primary venturi. The result could be similar to a large two barrel carburetor for some, while it will work great for others. There are variables associated with spring removal, including the condition of the diaphragm in the box. If is as old as the car, it may be no longer be as suple as it once was, and therefore you may need more vacuum than someone else.

Disconnecting the linkage from the box itself allows the secondaries to "free-float" when the primaries are moved far enough to remove the linked secondary shaft retaining spring tension. The secondaries are basically at the mercy of flow as a means to prompt them to open. A bit like having a small weather vane in your carb. This is why there are many varied results in doing this simple mod. A carburetor that is all gummed up will surely hold the secondaries shut where a cleaner carb is more apt to have the secondaries move. But they will not be timed, as they are not linked, and so will never open optimally, fully, or even consistantly.

Vacuum secondary operation is a great set-up for two reasons...Fuel economy, and a very, very smooth transition from primary operation to secondary. Often with mechanical secondaries, the transition is very noticable as a 'thrust' of power. This responce that one feels is often misinterpretted as power, when in reality it is the lack of fuel for a split second while the secondaries open. Forward inertia keeps the vehical moving, so the loss of power is only percieved when the power comes on. All this happens very quickly, and if there was a perfectly smooth transition, you would'nt feel the jerk of the vehical, but you would be ever-so-slightly faster. (we'll get to that.)

The fact that vacuum secondaries operate when your ENGINE says so is enough for most performance minded people to desire mechanical secondaries that they themselves control with their own foot. And converting the stock Nikki secondaries is very easy to do...IF you understand how they work to begin with.

CONVERTING TO...MECHANISISM?!?

You need to disconnect the throttle cable and choke cable before anything.
Now, yank off that vacuum box, along with the linkage. Well....don't "yank" it off, but remove it as if you were doing surgery on your dog. (You love your dog, don't you?) Don't destroy, or change anything that can't be put back the way it was. There are 3 holes on the carb where you took the box off; two for screws, and one where a short black plastic tube from the box went into. That hole is the vacuum hole, and should be plugged with perhaps a piece of rubber or plastic that you can remove later if you want to put everything back the way it was.

Study how the linkage moves on the "business" side of the carb. You'll need a wire twisty from a garbage bag. Remove the sheathing. This is what you'll use to wire the linkage together.
Now that the vacuum box is gone, there is nothing keeping the secondary shaft from moving when the primary shaft opens to the point where its linkage 'allows' it to. There's nothing prompting it to move, though, either. So you need to wire the two washers on the secondary shaft together, so that
the one with the linkage arm in it will pull the other one along with it.

DANCING BUTTERFLIES...TIMING IS EVERYTHING!

Ultimately, we want to end up with the primary and the secondary butterflies standing straight up and down together. This is truely "wide open throttle", and it's suprising to think that your carb may not be opening all the way up. Many people don't ever think to check, but after 16-20 years that ole throttle cable could've stretched a bit, and gone unnoticed.

When all of the linkage is just right, the secondaries will start to open somewhere between the 1/3rd to half-way point of the primaries' travel; and both shafts will finish their travel at exactly the point where all four butterflies are perfectly straight up and down.

Don't get cocky! There is a hidden danger here...If the linkage is not adjusted quite right, either on the wire that you put on, or the original link wire, a result could be that the secondaries don't actually close all
the way. This is no good, and will thoroughly screw up your idle. Check for any binding, and adjust your wire, as well as the original linkage wire (by bending or straightening it with pliers) as neccesary; And always double check that everything is timed properly.

Now you need an assistant to help with the throttle cable. Put the throttle and choke cable back on, and keep the nuts very loose. Have your assistant put the pedal all the way down, and you hand-operate the carb to wide open throttle. Snug up the cable, so it's roughly in the correct position. Have your assistant push the pedal down, and you can fine-tune the adjustment on the cable so that "wide open throttle" on the pedal really means "wide open throttle"! Be certain, of course that the cable is'nt keeping the throttle open during idle.
If there is that problem, then you'll have to do some pedal stop adjusting; but take serious caution not to spin the carb shaft too far, or irrepairable damage will be done to the components. (And, BTW, this is a real PITA if you have to do it! Just take your time, and get it right.)

Now drive it.

...So you drove it. It probably feels real powerful when you slam the pedal, say after 4500 RPMs. Anything under that, and you get a "bog", or "flat spot".
This flat spot is your engine gasping for fuel as the air velocity is suddenly interrupted by a "pie-in-the-face" rush of volume. For that fraction of a second, the engine does'nt have enough fuel, and is
running very lean, and with very little power. If we could maybe throw a surge of fuel in there, it would'nt suffer such a shock!

"I NEED A SHOT O' GASOLINE..."

The AP (because I'm tired of typing "accelerator pump"!) is a simple "squirt-gun" design pump in that it uses a check ball at the intake, and one at the outlet (under the nozzles). The operative part of it is linked to the "linkage headache" of the carb, and is designed to squirt a shot of fuel into the primary venturis upon their opening. If there were no AP, then the venturi butterfly valves would always have to opened very slowly to prevent stalling.

The stock Nikki AP set-up is fine for an economy sports car, and with the original vacuum operated secondaries, ...well, they opened so slowly, and infrequently, that there was no real need for an AP specifically designed
for them. But now that we've converted to mechanical secondary operation, we DO need an extra push when they open, because they will be opening every time you stomp the pedal!

Work the throttle shaft on your carb, and observe the squirt of fuel coming from the AP nozzles into the primaries. Observe, in particular, the duration of the pump shot with respect to the position of the butterflies and you will see, that if you were to be cruising down the highway with your pedal partially down, and then step on the gas pedal, there would be no pump shot...unless, of course you let completely off the pedal, and THEN stomp it again. That way, the linkage could travel back to closed position, and give
you a shot again on the way back to WOT. THAT does'nt sound like very much fun!

So - What we need to do is change the AP linkage to increase the DURATION of the shot so it will still squirt while the secondaries are opening. But then there's another lil' problem...There's simply not enough fuel to spread out over that long a stroke, and still be effective. So we need to increase the VOLUME, too.

We've fiddled with linkage crap enough for a while, so let's increase the volume of the AP first. For this, you'll need:
Carb gasket paper,
An exacto knife, (and I find that a hand held paper hole-puncher works
really well for screw holes, ect)
4 screws the are IDENTICAL thread pitch to the four AP housing cover screws,
but about 1/8th inch longer,
a strip of strong metal 1 1/2 inch X 1/2 inch X "whatever" (depending on the
material. I used a piece of 1/8 aluminum, but 1/16th steel would do it. It
needs to be strong, but drillable and cutable.)
a very small nut and bolt that will join this metal strip to the existing AP
lever,
...And a veriety of tools, including a file and a drill.

Remove the AP housing cover, and you'll find a diaphragm and a spring. If your diaphragm is a tough as an old shoe, get a new one. You need one that is soft and supple because you're going to "max-out" its movement to and
fro.
Take the housing cover and the gasket paper, and cut out 6 gaskets. Use a quarter, and trace out circles exactly in the center of each, and cut them out. Reassemble the AP using the four new screws, and putting 3 gaskets in front of the diaphragm, and three after. Pull that spring a bit so it's
about a quarter inch longer, too. That's it.
Now it does'nt seem like an awful lot, but it really makes a difference. The AP diaphragm can now pull more fuel in, and push more fuel out.

Now the linkage...

The original linkage is hooked up in a mannor in which the arc of the lever is so short, that it takes little shaft movement to complete that arc. What we want, is for that arc to be longer. Take the nut off the AP linkage arm, if you have'nt already. Take the strip of metal, and drill a hole at each end, so that the holes are about 1-1/14 apart. The holes need to be the same diameter as the one in the AP lever. Bolt the extention to the AP lever, and you'll see that the bottom will need to be bent slightly so that it is more perpendicular to the AP linkage arm.

Don't forget that spring on the linkage arm! Make sure there's good tention on the spring when it's all assembled by stretching the spring a bit. You may have to use washers as spacers on the AP linkage arm so that you can attach the nut, and still adjust it; Or, you can creatively bend or remake abetter extention.
But that's it!

Observe the pump shot, now. You should see that even if you stop operating the throttle midway, that when you continue moving it again, there is still fuel squirting from the nozzles as the secondaries are opening.

Accelerator pump tuning is not an art; but rather a purely "trial and error" proceedure. The key to being able to tune the pump is to make certain that the extention you put on is still in the threaded part of the AP tuninglinkage arm. Tuning should be done with 1/4 turns, and not in the driveway. The engine has much different requirements when it's trying to haul around a heavy car and your butt!

Also, more is not always better, and so it is entirely possible to end up with too much of an AP shot, with the results feeling exactly the same as not having enough. If you have too little, the is a lean flat spot. Too much obviously equals a rich flat spot. Your butt can't tell the difference, and that's why I say it's "trial and error". But with this set-up, you should be able to find a "happy place" where at over about 3000 rpms, you can nail it, and get no bog. It will take some doing, and this may even promp you to start experimenting with different fuel jets, ect.

You will still have a stumble if you try to nail it at under 3000; 2800 at best. If you drive like Grandma all the time, and suddenly want to nail it at 2500, well...get a supercharger!

Side note.........
There are two orifices in the front fuel bowl associated with the AP. I do not yet fully understand the set-up, but being of curious nature, I presumed that the top one was for AP over-pressure. I plugged that top hole by inserting a brass plug from the inside. I made the plug on my lathe, and I don't suggest anyone doing it by MY word, as I still don't know what it does (did).

The reason I mention this, is because I had to remove the airhorn and take out the brass threaded jet that covers the AP checkball, and put teflon tape on it, as I was losing fuel from that area. However, due to the fact that only one other person has tried this mod (that I know of...And he DID do the same thing, even though I said he should'nt, and had the same thing happen.), I don't know if the leakage was because of
the original mod causing extra pressure in the AP, or due to plugging that hole in the fuel bowl.
So, in short, you MAY have to remove the air horn to access that brass jet, and tape it up.

Please also keep in mind, that I have done this mod to an "already modified" carburetor. I use huge jets, and my carb flows about 1/3rd again what it did when it was stock. I've machined my own linkage set-up, and it's completly different than stock, so what I've just written is from memory.

I really hope this works as well for your stock carb, as it does for my carb. If you are not getting great results from this, my suggestion is to remove a pair of gaskets; one from each side of the "AP diaphragm sandwich", thereby decreasing the amount of fuel. But I have a feeling, it will be fine.

Feel free to Email me at [email protected] with questions, and I would very much appreciate
feedback about results, too.

Dennis Williams, aka "Sterling".
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Old 02-27-02, 08:39 AM
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Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
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P.S.
This is a compilation of information I've extracted from experimentation, The Mazspeed website, This site, Paul Yaws site, and several "rotary-wierdos"; including Speedturn, REVHED, peejay, Mikey D, and a guy named Steve.

I take full responsibility for any "Well hell...that-ain't-right!"s found in this write-up.
I only mention the above names to give credit where credit is due.
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Old 02-27-02, 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Sterling
P.S.
This is a compilation of information I've extracted from experimentation, The Mazspeed website, This site, Paul Yaws site, and several "rotary-wierdos"; including Speedturn, REVHED, peejay, Mikey D, and a guy named Steve.

I take full responsibility for any "Well hell...that-ain't-right!"s found in this write-up.
I only mention the above names to give credit where credit is due.
"Rotary-wierdo." I resent that!!
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Old 02-27-02, 08:31 PM
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You might like to know that I plan on putting a Holley 750 on one of my 12A's... one of these days. I think it should be large enough that the secondaries need not open, and as such, I'm going to make an adapter that fits the two primary barrels over all four intake ports on the manifold, and do some clean-up work to the manifold as well.
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Old 03-20-02, 03:47 PM
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Thanks very much for typing this Sterling, it's very interesting!

I thought I'd bring this back up since I have a question - has anyone tried these 2 mods with an otherwise stock carb yet? I'm thinking of trying this stuff.

My mods are minor - removed all emissions and vac advance, full RB exhaust, e-fan, better air cleaner, bumped timing. I've also shortened my secondary spring about halfway and like the results. I'll be re-jetting 2 sizes up and running a good fuel pump and regulator before I try this regardless.

Just wondering if anyone with similarly mods has tried this stuff out
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Old 03-21-02, 03:36 AM
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Hey SilverRocket, I have pretty much the same mods as you, and I was also thinking about re-jetting my carb. I think someone mentioned going up 1 size on the primaries and 2 sizes on the secondaries, does this sound right? Does anyone know what these sizes are, I should have made a note of the stock sizes while I had it apart last week... hindsight IS 20/20 D'oh thanks. -George
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Old 03-21-02, 08:51 AM
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I'm still waiting on a reply that I PMd him a coupla weeks ago...I think he wants to ba as notorous as Yaw regarding replies to carb mods..."Read my Website!! And then, tune thyself, rotorhed!!"
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Old 03-21-02, 12:10 PM
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Hey SilverRocket, I have pretty much the same mods as you, and I was also thinking about re-jetting my carb. I think someone mentioned going up 1 size on the primaries and 2 sizes on the secondaries, does this sound right? Does anyone know what these sizes are, I should have made a note of the stock sizes while I had it apart last week... hindsight IS 20/20 D'oh thanks. -George
Yup, that's right. The upsized jets I got from Mazdatrix are 95 on the primaries, 170 on the secondaries. These are the sizes they recommended to me. I haven't installed them yet, but I'm hoping for good results (as much as a 10 dollar mod can get you anyways lol). Incidentally, off the top of my head I believe that stock sizes are 92 and 160.
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Old 03-21-02, 01:33 PM
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mar3,
I replied your last a long time ago...unless this server friggin ate it!

V8Kilr,
I don't ever plan to mod Nikkis for sale. I think that Paul Yaw has taken the Nikki carb as far as it can go. I could'nt in good concious copy what he's done for resale.
(I would'nt make any money anyways.) But I also could'nt modify carbs to what I know are sub-potential standards so as not to be stepping on Yaws toes, either.
All I can do is tell people what has worked well for me, and keep experimenting.

All of my experiments and ideas are designed with the idea that people should be able to go fast but spend very little.
The boneyards are FILLED with go-fast parts! They are'nt always the most obvious things, and you'll be hard-pressed to find any after-market performance parts. But a stock Volvo intercooler is a high performance one for an Rx-7.

If they can build that **** on "Junkyard Wars"...(My favorite show!)

My deal is not to be "as notorious as Yaw..." for carb advice. (And I know that was mar3s friendly joke.) But I would like to be known for the ideas I've come up with. I have a history of bizarre ideas on Mazspeed.com.
One day, I'll hit on one that will be really cool!
(The recent thread about rev limiter/buzzer tells what I did with my buzzer!)

I thought the accelerator pump idea was clever as hell...till I read about something similar in a Holley carb book afterwards! They tell you to use a rebuild kit from a different model carb on the model they are talking about, because everything is the same except the AP diaphragm has more travel!

"D'Oh!"

Very few people are asking "what-if...?" questions regarding whacky ****. We need more of those kind of "tinkering-thinkers". With "over 11,000,000,000" members, you'd think more cool ideas would be popping out all over.

I don't believe for a second that the stock 12a rotary has ever shown it's whole "back-yard mechanic" potential.

My future plans are to custom fit an Eaton M-62 blower on my stock 85GS. It should get me about 225 [email protected] 10 psi. It'll be a blow-thru set-up with an intercooler, and probably water injection.
I can only do this because of my newly aquired milling machine. I'll be milling a carb manifold in two parts, and also the blower plenum. When I get everything all worked out, I may decide to have the plenum and assembled carb manifold cast into one piece.
I will look into that as an option (interest pending) as part of a kit that I might offer.
Yes, a "Supercharge it Yourself! - using a Junkyard M-62" kit for 12a engines! The purchaser would need to get the supercharger and the intercooler. I would only be supplying a cast manifold milled perfectly flat where necessary, brackets, instructions, and I'm not sure what else. (Hav'nt done it myself yet!) Since the whole idea is to "go fast for less", I would keep the cost down as much as I could. But I won't sell crap - not for any price.

BTW-I'll also be casting the front fender "Rx-7" logo in sterling silver for myself to use inside the car as part of my customization. Then I'll have the mold, and will know the price only then. I hope to make them available to anyone else by Christmas!

As far as the Nikki goes, You can get jets; I just don't know where else but from Yaw. I think RB might have them. But doing more to the carb is useless after you've gone up a few thou in the jet sizes, unless you start making the venturi sleeves larger in diameter. And what a pain in the *** it is!

I've recreated everything Yaw does except the acid etching. The lathe I used for the sleeves was my Sherline mini; same as Pauls. On my first attempt, I put a hairline crack through the carb housing while tapping out a sleeve with a perfectly sized punch I lathed. (I don't have a press, and was too lazy to set up a way to use the vise.)
Then, on that same one, I hit a porous spot in the cast venturi while lathing the inside of it.
Non of that mattered to me because it was going on my 'clunker rex' anyways. But if that had been your carb, I'd have a problem! I would have to start using my own carb parts, ect.

I know it's different when you do quantity, but I still just don't see how Paul Yaw makes money doing his carbs!
He's not just latheing the venturis, either. There's a substantial list of what needs to be done. I know what all these things are, but only because i've seen what he did. I looked at all the things he did, and then had to figure out why he did them. It's how I learned.
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Old 03-21-02, 01:37 PM
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As far as the Nikki goes, You can get jets; I just don't know where else but from Yaw.
You can get them from Mazdatrix, they're cheap.
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Old 03-21-02, 01:40 PM
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yea im defintely not saying to step on ywas toes,
but some people already need a new carb even if it is a rebuilt stock nikki,
what i was thinking of is you picking up a couple nikki's and rebuilding them then doing a few of your mods to them,
you could simply sell them as rebuilt slightly modded nikki's for someone who is just looking for a rebuilt mainly,
and you could ask maybe $100.00 for each.
that way it is a cheap alternative to something high performance and better then stock since the person had to change the carb anyway.
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Old 03-21-02, 01:43 PM
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Hey Sterling!

I have a great "backyard mechanic" idea for the stock Nikki... should be great for fixing metering problems, increasing airflow without TOUCHING the carb what-so-ever, and best of all the price can't be beat! (How's about "Labor and a spare junk carby"? )
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Old 03-21-02, 02:44 PM
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Silver: Thanks for the confirmation.
Rxcetera: That avatar kicks *** now.

Keep the ideas coming, I'm always looking for a project to waste the week end away with.
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Old 03-21-02, 02:51 PM
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C'mon, peejay...Spill!
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Old 03-21-02, 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by peejay
You might like to know that I plan on putting a Holley 750 on one of my 12A's... one of these days

Hopefully, he's still not thinking about this....
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Old 03-21-02, 04:29 PM
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I don't like spilling my crazy ideas until I prove it right. Otherwise, if I'm really off base, other people would be wasting their time and money on account of me, and that's not something I want to happen.

However, if I'm right, I'll tell the whole world

The 750 idea SHOULD work. A 750 is two Holley 500 2-barrels back to back. (2-bbls are rated differently from 4-bbls CFM-wise but the venturis and throttle plates etc are the same size) People have used the 500's with success on rotaries, you just need to have a plenum intake because Holleys are designed for that kind of vacuum signal, not the kind that a stock manifold will produce. (which is why a Holley on a stock manifold will run pig-rich at high RPM) So, I could run a 750 with locked-out secondaries. Basically it would be an overweight Holley 500.
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Old 03-21-02, 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by yayarx7
OK, why not a 500 pejay
The basic premise behind ALL of my ideas... a perpetual lack of money! I already have a Holley 750 (it came on a car that I used to own). A new carb would run about $300, and for that much, and the trouble to make the necessary manifold modifications, and the hassle of rigging up the cables (I already have the throttle cable setup... piece of cake really ) and all of that... well I'd be better off sending my check over to Paul Yaw and getting one of his wundercarbs.

But, if I have the necessary hard parts already in my possession, sure why not? For what it's worth, the Holley 3310 (750cfm vacuum secondary, w/ the center hung float bowls) is possibly THE most common Holley out there, so there are probably scads of them to be had for $50 or so at swap meets, and a Trick Kit costs $30. (basically a rebuild kit with reuseable, non-tearing, non-swelling gaskets)
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Old 03-21-02, 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by peejay
I don't like spilling my crazy ideas until I prove it right. Otherwise, if I'm really off base, other people would be wasting their time and money on account of me, and that's not something I want to happen.

However, if I'm right, I'll tell the whole world

Sounds to me like a case of "Laughin-atchaphobia"!

I like to present my ideas. But if I listened to everyone elses opinion on them, I would'nt be dropping an M-62 on my 12a!
I even recall one responce that went something like, "I don't think you'll be able to do it because it's a GM part, and you'll never find a manifold to fit it."

Stupid.

Of course on the other hand are the people who just seem to want to shoot everything down with, "Well if it were that easy, then EVERYbody'd be doin it!"
Or, "Why are you always trying to re-invent the wheel?"

These people can all go **** in their Mopar hats!

If you don't wanna share it, don't tell everyone you got it!
But if you just don't want others to capitolize off of it, or beat you to it, than just say so. Nuthin wrong with that, either.

I plan on making my own carb from sheets of milled 1/4 inch aluminum all stacked together with gaskets in between.
(Don't bore me by asking "Why?", O.K.?)
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