Max7

How did you get the ports to match up from the 2nd Gen lower manifold to the GSL-SE block?
This is a pic of the S4 lower intake with a GSL-SE gasket on it.

the Primary ports are higher on the GSL-SE, also the slot below the inlets needs covered which is not on a S4 intake but is on S5 one.

as for air flows, the S4 throttlebody has about 31% more flow and the uppermanifold is good for 7% more, but like said above with the stock AFM being the big restrictor.

comparisons of the S4 and S3 intakes can be seen at
http://max7.rx-7.org/mods/mod-intake.htm

hornbm

regardless, you are not going to make any more top end power with wiring the 6 port sleeves open anyway.

The only way to do that would be to remove the sleeves all together.

Also regardless of what mods you have done, if your 6 port sleeves are wiried open, then your low end power will suffer substanitally. There are COUNTLESS dyno charts in the second gen forum to prove this.

Heres the only way to prove this, since your sleeves are still in there, allow them to run normally, and see if you get a power difference. You will, no doubt about it.

And if you think about it, wiring open the 6 ports cant help your top end power anyway. In a stock configuration, when you are at your top end, your sleeves are fully open. When you have them wired open, they are open at full throttle just like the stock config. So where does this extra power come from?

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

The extra power he got is not from wiring the sleeves open. It is from the better flowing manifold and throttlebody. If he gets a full exhaust and finds a way to remove the afm (Haltech or equivalent) then it should really sing.

hypntyz7

That would make no difference, if not a negative difference. Consider that he has pineapple sleeves in...removing them altogether would require that incoming airflow hit a wall then start moving again...

Well, you know best...

You didnt even bother to read that big writeup/rant I put about this. The power comes from the **fact that the ports were NOT opening up to begin with**. I repeat, the exhaust is not a good way to open 6ports, especialy old, carbon caked ones that have a higher level of resistance. Since they were not working at all, we had 3 options to *get* them working, and I went through all that above.

Alright guys, it's like this. I posted this big writeup here for you guys' benefit, trying to help. Im sure mike had the same intention. IF you all wanna take it as BS, or wanna anylize it and dissect it to the point that it's useless information, then go ahead. We did some work to the car and made it considerably quicker and more fun to drive. We thought you all might like to do so as well. We can gladly keep this information to ourselves, and the only way you'll have of finding out about it is if you happen to line up beside mike on the interstate one day in east tn

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

Well I for one really apreciate what you've done. I will be looking into this mod myself, as these people do the exact same thing with everything i discuss about my car.

The only real thing i'm curious about tho is:

What about what max 7 noted on the intake differences?

I'm going to send you some PM's here soon asking more stuff.

Peace
~Geoff

hornbm

Sorry i didnt mean for my comment to be offensive in anyway. The only gain from removing the sleeves, is that you do not have that rod in the way inside the lower intake manifold. I also forgot to take in to consideration that he has the pineapple sleeves.

But seriously, if you are going to be doing all this mod work why not just make the effort to fix the sleeves to begin with? On an s5 the sleeves open from the airpump and not the exaust pressure, so I'm allmost certian you could rig up a way to pull that off with an rpm switch or something.

The bottom line was, that wiring the sleeves open does not increase power and has been beaten to death in the second gen forum.

I also realize that you did talk about opening the ports via the air pump in your post, but you dont want to use the air pump becuase you want a clean engine bay? I think its far more important to have that low end power (or what little there is) then worrying about an uncluttered engine bay. Lastly, doesnt he still have his stock cats? You need the airpump for those to work right.

mwpayne

Well, I appreciate Kevin taking the time to come over here & help me out on this post. Keep in mind this is the FIRST Se I've ever had. I can't compare it to anything EXCEPT a 2nd gen I drove briefly recently. My car now reminds me of the quickness that 88 had. If there is a problem in my low end now due to the sleeves being open constantly, I love the problem. It is absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt TWICE as quick as it was before Kevins excellent work. That is not debateable.
Also something to keep in mind that some may not know..Kevin is something of a legend in the 2nd gen forum. He makes his living doing NOTHING but work on cars with 13B engines. That's it. Big time crediblility in my book. He knows his stuff, and his prices are extremely reasonable.
I invite you guys to go to his website www.rotaryresurrection.com and check out his work, email him with questions. He'll be glad to help.
He'll be rebuilding mine in a few weeks (if he can fit me in) and putting in a mild streetport. YYYYeehhaaaa!

chastan

And are you sure it wasn't installed at the port, rather than Hiroshima? Never-the-less,

Manntis

I'm not the original owner, I'm the 3rd. Even when Ms. Anderson (allegedly) drove the car her at-the-time fiancé, Dan, took excellent care of it.

When I bought the car from the woman who'd bought it off of Dan ten years or so ago, she provided me with every receipt for every oil chance, part change, repair, etc. in her history with the car. I always insist on getting @ least copies of all service records when buying used, and in this case it proves the car has been well looked after.

I continue to treat the car right, though she's no trailer queen. Just today I was out enjoying that bike-like accelleration.

13BRX

This was done to my car before I owned it. It pretty much a crap to learn to drive and takes a fair bit of practicing (for me anyway) to get a really good takeoff. But when you get the good takeoff it really is worth it. Have beaten numerous V8s and I'm not running a turbo.

hypntyz7

GSL-SE_84

Kevin,

This may be a dumb question, but with all of those mods you describe, will the car pass emissions if it still has a cat and a tube to the cat?

hornbm

actually i think your emissions might go pretty bad if the 6 ports are wired open. if that is teh case, then just close them, get tested, then wire them back open.

hypntyz7

Emissions? I think not, with no air pump, emissions rack, avc, etc. IF you leave the air pump and emissions rack, then you sort of defeat the purpose of it all, but I suppose it can be done.

To be totally honest I dont know alot about emissions tests, as Ive never seen one in my life, in person.

MRGSL-SE

Your only using the primary(the inside 2 fuel injectors in that manifold, right???? It looks like you left the outside two injectors out.... Are you using the stock N304 GSL-SE ECU???

I heard its better fit for a GSL-SE motor to have a S5 intake rather than the S4....

I really wanna do this mod rather than going carb....

Can I use the stock ECU N304 in their???

hypntyz7

You can pretty much run any injection setup (ecu, wiring, injectors, fuelrail) on any manifold set that will bolt up. This setup uses the stock wiring, ecu, and injectors.

The s5 and s4 intakes bolt up the same, but using the s5 intake requires actuation/wiring open of yet another valve, which has already been condemned by the 1gen forum elite above in this thread.

gamble302

haha i know the feeling

Fire85GSLSE

iTrader: (29)

So if you had to put a dollar figure on it what would it cost to do the same to another GSL-SE? I have all emissions removed, acv plate, road race dual tube complete exhaust with an 02 sensor and the 6thport hooked up, also have a cone filter and a dual pulley.
In Nashville.

hypntyz7

Including all the parts, along with fuel pulsation dampner blockoff (his was leaking) I charged him $250 (this did not include the pineapple sleeves) IIRC.

hornbm

Well with no air pump your cats wont last very long anyway, and you wont have a prair of passing emissions. The only way you would be able to pass is of you got a header/high flow cat combo, as those high flow cats work better than ours to begin with, and dont need any air injection. (acording to mazdatrix)

Actually on S4 N/A cars, swaping the S5 intake manifold is a pretty common thing. The vdi chamber adds a good 20 HP and pretty fun to drive. Its not all that hard to do anyway. http://homepage.mac.com/carldavis/intake/intro.html

Here is a write up for it. You'd just have to mate the upper and middle manifolds to the GSL-SE lower one. There is one stud that wont align, just remove it and you'll be fine.

I mated a upper and mid S5 manifold to a lower S4 one becuase I need the port air to pass emissions (I have an S4 block) and it was no problem at all.

As far as that VDI chamber goes, you can get it to work with a selenoid and a RPM switch. Easy enough.

hornbm

damn, double post

FB II

well, straight up. i just went through inspection class and am about to recieve my license. the first thing, even without doing emissions check, is to look for egr valve, pcv valve, air pump, all emissions. if anything is even missing, cat or any of the above then it's automatic fail. so if you have to pass emissions and don't have a hook up, then you need to re hook that stuff back up simply for the visual inspection or you won't even make it to the sniffer part to remotely have a chance at passing emissions. hahaha, just letting you peeps know who are wanting to remove all that mess and live in an emissions checking state. luckily i have the hook up or my car most definitely would not pass! hahaha

1984special

I think the 6-port acutation is pretty nifty and I would try to keep it, which means using the electric rpm switch. The 6-port thingy is on the RENESIS motor too, so it must be good if Mazda uses it... (right?) Anyways, I was just wondering about the difference between the S4 intake and the S5 intake. Wouldn't the S5 be a better choice, even if it were slighty more expensive? The rest of the mod seemed a little confusing, but I won't dwell on it. The install looked clean... but messy. I think it was the cone filter and the intake tube. I'm sure it can be fitted better (CAI?) and it wasn't because of cost.

My REAL question/comment (sorry for the long rambling) is lets see a dyno sheet. Someone do this mod and prove that it really kicks ***. And you have to make sure you only do this mod. Of coures it's probably unreasonable to have an average joe do this unless they owned their own dyno. In SCC, they dyno their car after each modification to show it makes power! Any "average joe" with a dyno willing to dyno their GSL-SE and then slap on a S4/S5 intake manifold?

hypntyz7

I love people who "wanna see the dyno sheet..."

Sure, let's run down to the corner dyno and stap that bitch on to see what happened

Some of us dont have a readily accessible dyno, ya know...


I tell you guys what. From now on, we wont bother posting about any mods we do to Mike's car, and you guys can go back to debating about the 12a-->13B swaps.

mwpayne

FRAK! Double post.