(FUEL) How To: Install Carter Fuel Pump & Holley FPR
 

I wasn't able to find an installation guide for either of these items, so I thought I would show how I did it. If anybody has better ideas or methods, please chime in.

First off, the Carter Fuel Pump. I purchased mine from Summit, here is the link to the model/pricing: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

I started off by removing the cover over the stock fuel pump. When you pull this down, the pump will come with it. Snip the wires close to the pump, and remove the hoses, then the entire assembley will be free. I also chose to remove the check & cut valve while I was at it, but you might elect to keep yours (I didn't want to risk any flow restrictions).

The hardest part of this installation (and that of the Holley FPR) was deciding where and how to mount the new unit. I chose a location on the frame rail, close to the gas inlet pipe (pic 1). I simply drilled a hole and used the supplied self threading bolt to secure the unit. I only used one bolt due to space restrictions, but the bracket doesn't have the room to move around anyway, so I should be ok. Peejay stated that he bent the lower portion of the bracket to allow him to use a second bolt going into the underside of the frame rail, which sounds like an excellent idea to me. I would have done this to, if he had posted that info before I installed mine.

The new pump will come with rubber standoffs that go between the pump and the bracket, so be sure to use them.

Your old pump's wiring will have two wires. The wire with the white stripe is your power (+) and the plain black can be used for the ground. The instructions that came with the pump suggested running the ground to the bracket, but I chose to use the original wire to be sure I had a good ground.

Use 5/16 fuel line to replace all of the original hose in this area at this time. Once the pump is bolted onto the frame rail, just connect the new hoses and the wiring.

Here are the pics. FPR installation will come in my next post.

Nice install. How do you like it?

Okay, now for the FPR.

Here is the link to the unit I purchased (again, from Summit): http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

As I said before, the hardest part of this installation was figuring out where/how to mount it.

The first pic will show the parts needed for the install. The new unit will not come with the adapters needed to connect your fuel lines, so you will need to pick them up somewhere. I went to Napa. They did not have a direct fit for me, but gave me a couple of reducers that would take it down to the size I needed.

I took the mounting bracket from my check & cut valve, and slightly modified it so that I could use that to mount the FPR.

Once that was done, it was just a matter of hooking up the fuel lines (new). Here are the pics.

Feel free to add to this if you see a problem, or have a better solution for any part of it. I'm hoping that this will be a thread that people can pull up for all of their needed information when getting ready to perform this type of installation.

Also, total cost for the adapters for the FPR was about $10.00 Cost for the entire upgrade (pump and FPR) was under $100.00 :)

So far, I love it. The car is definitely stronger now. The pump can be heard buzzing when the car is running and not moving, but its not annoying or anything. Some people have complained about the noise level of these pumps, but I believe it is due to how/where they chose to mount it. Mounting it directly to the frame rail is probably better than using the underside of the bin or spare tire hole. If you mount it to sheet metal, then the metal will vibrate like a speaker and be very loud.

Just a day late! I did both of these installs just last night. I like your idea for mounting the regulator, mine is just hanging on the hose, held up by the wiring harness right now. Also it was driving me mad last night trying to figure out which wire was positive and which was negative, I eventually got it though.

I'd like to add that you can use 3/8" fuel line on everything and it will work just fine. Makes the regulator fitting situation easier. Just be sure to get some good hose clamps (like the ones pictured, they're great even if they did cost me a buck a piece) and clamp them down hard.

Oh and I would recommend using liquid silicone thread sealer instead of the tape. I think its just easier and probably seals better. Plus you dont want to get a chunk of tape in your carbureator.

The "best" ground is always short as possible and conncects directly to a clean spot on the chassis. ;)

A good upgrade is to run a new + from the battery and use the old wires to trigger a relay.

Good point Revhed. Maybe I'll do it both ways, just to be sure. I just didn't want to have to scrape off all of my undercoating to get a good contact...

Totally agreed on no tape. There is a product that is even better than silicone for this particular application, but can't remember the name. It's like a teflon paste. That's for the FPR of course. The fittings for the carter pump are dry. One just gets to torque them like there is no tomorrow.

Kentetsu, nice setup. But with the FPR in that positiion, where do you plug the guage?

Good choice of oil filter. K&N baby!

I don't have a gauge yet, so I guess I'll have to figure that out when I get one. Right now she runs like a raped ape, so its not very high on my list...

The teflon paste works great, much better than the tape.

I am concerned about the offset distance for the fpr. It may sit out far enough to be subject to vibration and cause a fatigue failure in the bracket over time. I like to mount them on the firewall pinch weld, but you need to remove a bit out of the way to mount it.

If Kgray sees this, maybe he can post a pic of how I mounted his.

Yeah, finding a place to mount it was a real pain. That pinch weld is right in the way. I don't think I'll have any vibration issues though, the fuel lines are short enough to provide some damping effect. However, I am certainly open to suggestions on better mounting methods/locations. This was just what I came up with off the top of my head. If anybody has some suggestions, or better yet, some pictures, then get them in here by all means! :)

Here is my old setup.
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View...884&p=74050880

Trochoid did this for me but here are some pics. there is an inline filter attached between the regulator and the carb (blue thing)

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1854/img09325yo.jpg

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1738/img09333ze.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2509/img09344qx.jpg

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/405/img09354sa.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5820/img09369cv.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4...amoffpr0zo.jpg

this is where i mounted my fpr, just to the left of the hood catch - holley seems to be the standard here, doesn't it

Definitely some nice ideas on locations. Kgray, until I saw your installation, I did not know that the fuel pressure gauge would connect straight to the FPR. I had assumed that it would be some type of inline gauge, but that setup looks pretty slick.

Thanks for the input guys. Keep the info coming so we can make this the "one stop shopping" place when it comes to this upgrade. :)

Or Aeromotive
steve
sgieldon

I like your install of the carter. That is exactly where i put mine in my install. I also removed that valve since i didn't find any other place to mount the pump and the valve was in the way! Definately an interesting way to mount the FPR though, i would just get a 90 degree fitting and put the gauge into that if i had done it that way, but i didn't even think of it. Mine is just attached by a screw now, and a ziptie for safety incase it lets go. :) I'll get to that some other day though.... otherwise, nice setup!

I wonder if Bwaits would be up to creating some custom brackets for these two items. You pretty much need both of these if you do any sort of modding on your car, and mounting brackets should be pretty easy to produce....

A mounting bracket specifically made for this purpose (fuel pump or FPR) would have cut my installation time by at least 75%, no kidding.

I'm pretty sure this should be archived. I'll be needing to do this soon. LOL

Darren

Mounting the fpg on the fpr is the only way to go. Besides Kgrays, I have bolted the fpr though the firewall above the pinch weld. Being anal, I removed the vent panel and drilled holes so I could use bolts instead of the self-tapping screws.

Hood clearence needs to be concidered when mounting above the pinch weld.

when you guys mounted your fuel pumps on the frame rail at the rear, did you just use 2 self tapping bolts with some rubber for insulation ?

Are self tappers enough to hold these pumps ?

Yeah. I just drilled a hole and used the self-tapper. Seems pretty heavy duty. The pump comes with rubber isolators for use between the pump and the bracket, then I also used some rubber sheeting between the bracket and the frame rail.

Is this mod recommended on a stock carb? is the stock fuel pump weak? should the fuel filter be moved to just before the carb? thanks Kentetsu for this post!

The stock fuel pump is just barely adequate for a car with no modifications. If you install a free flowing exhaust, modified carb, etc. then you will be pushing the limits of what the stock pump can handle.

The fuel filter should be located so that it filters the fuel before it enters the pump. Some of the guys are showing fuel filters that were added near the carb, but this is not a replacement for the stock filter.

no, mine was an additional filter to stop particles from getting into needle and seat.
it was sticking after the rebuild and before the extra was added and it made a world of difference.

in terms of flow I was advised as follows :

tank -> holley pump -> filter -> holley regulator -> carb

anybody got it any differently ? any guys experienced difficulties and then changed their setup ?

if im not mistaken the filter should come before the pump to prevent particales from reaching the pump and damaging/clogging it

Yep, according to the Carter instructions its filter before pump. The Holley reg came with instructions for a few different ones and for a fuel pump, they also had it laid out that way in their pump instructions.

would tank>filter>holley pump>filter>holley reg>carb be a good idea?

Works well. That is how Ihave both Kgrays and mine set up.

just got mine in the mail today, have never done this install hopefully it goes well

Hey KcKhan- dont forget to post pics of your install!

The stuff is permatex liquid thread dope or liquid thread sealant.
I'm about to make a run to pick some up from home depot so I'll let y'all know how much it is when I get back.

Okay, now this is interesting. When I first installed the Carter fuel pump, I reused all of the original wiring. I noticed that when I had my turn signal on, I could hear the noise from the pump cycling along with the turn signal which made me think that maybe it wasn't getting quite enough juice to run at full speed all the time. So, today I installed all new wiring, utilizing a relay triggered by the original wiring. Not too difficult. The pump no longer changes sound when the turn signal is on, and I can feel a difference in power at high rpms so that's great. But what I didn't expect was that my pump would get a hell of a lot quieter! Now, when I get to a stop light or something, I can barely hear my fuel pump. WTF? Those of you who are complaining of how loud your pump is might want to look into this. Maybe the loud noise is just a symptom of an insufficient power supply? I don't know....

Kentetsu,

That IS an interesting observation and result!. Mine is also very loud. But I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around how more power would make it quieter??? But if it does, that's really good to know. Fill us in on the relay info, please.

DD

Okay, I'll give this a quick go. I used a relay designed for fog lights (30 amp, about 3 bucks at Autozone). 10 gauge wire attached at the fusible link location (where power goes into the block, not out), with an inline fuse holder (30 amp fuse used) runs back to the storage bin location (wire shown red in attachment). Remove the storage bin, and you will see the wiring for the pump exiting through a grommet in the floor of the bin area. I separated the plug on the original wiring at this point (right there in the bin area) and used the striped wire to trigger the relay which I mounted in the bin area (green wire in attachment). Another wire will go from the relay to ground (black in attachment). The last of the four prongs on the relay is for the power feed to the pump (shown as blue). Which wire goes to which prong on the relay? Well, look on the back of the package for a description because they tend to use numbers which mean nothing to me on the relay itself. I thought about taking pics and doing a nice writeup on this, but was pressed for time (sorry). I hope this is clear enough, if not then fire away with the questions.

Yep, definitely an increase in power now.... Pump is still very quiet. I can hear it when parked if I listen for it, but otherwise it is not noticeable at all. Weird!

I have been chewing on this one since I first saw your post, so, per your PM request, I will venture a guess. Electrical devices such as a pump needs both volts and amps to run as designed. Old wiring and connectors can reduce the final output of both by the time it gets to the electrical device. Running a fresh power wire to the pump would provide the needed voltage and amps.

So here is the guessing part. If the pump was not getting the needed amps, the supply wire would heat up, thereby reducing the input. The heating takes away even more amps as it is being used to create heat and resistance in the wire. Electrical devices only take what is needed to run in the way of amperage. If the amperage supplied is not enouigh, the device struggles to work properly. Thereby, I'm guessing, causing the pump to stuggle and vibrate.

As I said, this is a guess, electrical is not my strong suit and someone with more electrical experience or an EE background may chime in and tell me I'm full of it. I have no problem if they do as I'm a bit vexed with your rewire resulting in a quieter pump. Either way, it sounds like rewiring the pump with a clean power source and relay has produced positive results. This is similiar to the pump rewire mod for the TIIs which is one of the first fuel upgrades needed.

So it got quieter ay?

I have the same set up as you just installed, but I read all the time how loud it is, So I have been thinking about sellign it and getting the Mallory 70.

If what you say is true, which im sure it is. That would save me alot of money. I Hate loud in my car. I want to hear my enigne, not what fuels it.

slightly off subject but not...i read a post the other night about adding fuel filters in front of the carb and it sounded like a really good idea to me, but it was also suggested to change the fuel pump to a higher flow model (carter in this case).

my question is this : if i add the filters and change the pump what will the extra PSI do to my stock setup? I am running the factory pump (yes it is the original factory pump from what i can tell) and it is not only loud but irritatingly small. This is going to be one of my first serious mods to the car and i am interested in what it may or may not do to a stock setup.

You will need a fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pressure gauge if you upgrade from the stock pump. Stock pumps are very quiet.

thx trochoid :) now i jsut gotta save the money for the gague and the regulator... :wallbash:

Thanks for the input T. Your thoughts are pretty much in alignment with my own on this, so I'm betting we're at least close if not dead on. Give the pump the required amount of power, and it will perform as designed. There's no doubt that the pump was starved for power before this was done. With the turn signal on, the pump would sound like ZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZ cycling along with the turn signal. Even pressing the brake would cause a drop. Makes me wonder how much better the stock pump might have functioned if it had received the same attention....

Yeah, with the affect that the lights had on the pump, either the power wasn't getting to the pump, the charging system was weak, or the pump was on it's way out.

Aren't you running a Sterling carb? If you are, then stock pump would be inadequate anyway as it barely meets the stock needs according to Sterling and Carl. I want to say having the headlights on would really pull the pump down, but they are on a seperate circuit entirely. If they didn't pull the pump down, then the charging system is good. It's a simple process of elimination.

I'm still a bit baffled by the noise reduction, The only plausable explaination I can fathom is that the pump can now run at full power/speed and no longer needs to strain, which was causing the vibration.

The charging system is fine, headlights never affected the pump (which is a Carter). It only seemed to be related to the turn signals and brake lights. I don't seem to have any shorts or anything, the charging system is the only part of this car that I haven't had to replace so far (knock on wood). In my opinion, the electrical system on these cars is a definite weak spot. I already rewired my headlights and added relays, and that made one heck of a difference in lighting output.

Kentetsu,

I finally got to drive this project for the first time around the block. It was a blast! Now I want to install a relay like you did. My Carter fuel pump also fluctuates with the turn signal and drops when I touch the brakes.

I appreciate the writeup and the drawing and if you ever get a chance would you please take a picture of the "10 gauge wire attached at the fusible link location (where power goes into the block, not out), with an inline fuse holder "

And the next time you remove the storage bin, I'd also like to see the actual relay and its wiring. That's asking a lot I know but I'm better with pictures.

Thanks again,

DD

i dont mean to disrupt ,but theres no stock fuel pressure regulator, right??

Is the Carter louder than the Holley Blue? I can't imagine how it could be; considering I can hear my Holley Blue OVER my car while travelling at 70mph a lot of the time.

The Holley is HELLA loud, and I'd like to get a Carter if it is a bit quieter.

Josay721,

There's no stock fuel pressure regulator.



Kentetsu,

Is this the connector you're referring to in the storage bin?

Attachment 700491

And is this the fusible link block?

Attachment 700492

Thanks,

DD