o thanks,

The Carter pumps on my REPUs are quiet. When on ewas on my GLC mounted to sheet metal, it was extremely loud. Yes, use the frame rail. Adequate power is also a good idea.

Jeff20B,

Mine is mounted on the frame rail and it's really loud and I've read many other similar complaints. I hope Kentetsu jumps back in here and finds the time to post a couple of pix for the electrically inept like me to follow. I don't want to screw up a car that already works, in the hopes of improving it. :hahano:

DD

The wiring of the relay is really pretty simple once you understand the function of it. The only part of the original wiring that you need to use is the striped wire that feeds through the bottom of the storage bin to get to the fuel pump. You don't even have to cut any wires, just unplug it right at that point and take the power from that plug. That wire will be used to "trigger" the relay. Everything else is pretty straight forward. Sorry, but I really don't have the time right now for pics or anything due to all h@ll breaking loose at work... :(

Fyi, technically there is a stock fpr. It is that little silver barrel in the return line between the carb and the firewall hard line. It is also a oneway valve so expanding fumes in the tank don't push fuel back into the carb and flood the engine.

DD, did you use rubber standoffs?

Kentetsu,
Thanks for the followup. I think I can handle it now. Hope work gets better.


trochoid,
Thanks for the correction. I guess I didn't consider the "fuel check valve" an FPR in a real sense since, as you said, its just a oneway valve (doesn't regulate until it gets plugged with gunk - then it regulates real good - down to 0 psi). I was thinking more in terms of if Jozay721 tried to order a stock FPR for his car - he'd likely be told it doesn't have one and then he'd be more confused than I usually am.


Jeff20B,
Yep. Rubber standoffs installed. It's not a vibration - just a loud (so, annoying) hum.


Thanks,

DD

cool, so lets say i bout a fpr, i could just take the silver barrel out and fit the regulator there??wats the difference with the little barrel(checkvalve) and the fpr??

Depends on the style of fpr that you use. The most common ones are the Holley, which are a non-reurn style. In that case, take the stock fpr/check valve and turn it around, that will block the return. If you get something like the Mallory 4309, that is a return style, you will need to block off the return hose from the stock carb with a bolt and clamp, then tie the hard return line into the 4309.

If you upgrade the pump to one that needs a return, make sure you get a good return style fpr. Upgraded pumps do not need to flow over 70 gpm. Don't make the mistake I did and buy something like the Mallory Comp 140. The 140 outflows what's needed for a 300 hp TII, volume wise. The Comp 70 is more than enough.

Jerking it back up to the top. I just got through installing my pump and FPR today. First thing I noticed was the racket. I thought no big deal, Just reinstall the storage bin and close the lid, lol. Yeah right!! :rlaugh: I didn't even snap that the stock pump was mounted to a seperate piece of steel, and with rubber insulators no less. I will also be relaying the power supply as I noticed the brake light cycling, it even dropped with turning on the headlights. No big deal, relays are easy, and everything but the power wire from the battery can be hidden.

No pics of the pump mount yet, but I have a pic of the FPR with my home made bracket. Mounted above the pinch weld, with the supply line between the heater hoses. I have about a 1/4 inch or so of clearance to the hood. Whoever mentioned watching that was dead on!! It must be nice to have those earlier models, and de-emissioned cars. This was literally the only open spot on the firewall in my car.


Attachment 700493

Now that I am home and can actually see the photos you posted, the answers are Yes, and Yes. :)

I was also considering making a mount for the Carter, to further isolate it from the chassis. This would probably make it even easier to mount if done correctly. Maybe someone should draw up a design for Billy over at Respeed?

but y take the check valve and turn it around?? y not just remove it, is there much of a difference??

Because you want to block the return line and that accomplishes it. The Holley FPR goes before the inlet gas line, not where the stock fpr is.

Why block the return line? What am I missing. It still functions right? If you wanted to block it, you could unhook both ends of the line under the hood, and cap them?

I got the pump remounted today, with some 1/2" thick rubber bushings, and power from a relay. It's still noticable but not as loud as before. It also still drops a bit when the brakes are applied, and
whe n headlights are turned on. That is also not as bad, though. Overall it's an improvement, and worth the few hours of time spent.

I'm still intrigued by the blocking of the return line? What purpose does it serve??

you block the return, on the carb, because the fpr has a return, so the fpr is only sending the exact ammount of fuel the carb needs. if its too much, it backs up into the fpr when the needle closes, and the backed up fuel in the fpr goes out the return on the fpr. does that make sense?

This will all depend on how you have it wired. Describe where you are drawing the power to trigger the relay and maybe I can figure it out for you...

my fuel pump runs constantly with the switch on

So does mine. My brother got a kit from somewhere to convert his Firedbird to FI. Not
a big deal until you know it's a 68 OHC straight six, hehe. But anyway, his pump does the turn off and restart once the engine is started thing. The 1st gen. RX7 pumps run anytime the key is on. Power trigger for the relay is the old positive wire from the pump harness. I am thinking of snagging a cutoff switch somewhere, so the pump doesn't keep running if the car flips and I'm unconcious, lol.

And my FPR doesn't have a return that I know of? It can be routed with one, I think?

And is there any way to resize that giant friggin picture?? lol!!

The need for trailing spark in order for the pump to run was not initiated until the 84/85 cars as a safety measure. If your FPR doesn't have a return line, don't worry about it. With the FPR in place to control the pressure, the return line is redundant.

Unless you have emissions testing in your area, hehe.

I've done this install and have done almost everything wrong that you guys have warned about and have suffered the consequences. Let me elaborate, tried the regulator with the sterling carb and the stock pump, absolute crap! Mounted the carter pump and didn't use a filter up front and spent a whole day at the track cleaning the dirt out of my regulator and carb. I think I finally have it running properly and am getting real good mid-range power, but the car will not pull past 7000 rpm and begins to break up around 6500 rpm.
I am not sure if this is a carb problem or a direct fire problem, but wanted some advice.
I have the direct fire setup from the forum installed and finally figured out that my timing was way off from the recomended 24 BTD, put it as close as I could and it ran pretty good, started feeling like I was getting somewhere with the new sterling carb. After I worked thru the problems I mentioned above, I started at 2psi as recomended and it wasn't very good, went up to 2.25 psi and it got better, moved to 2.5 psi and had the best performance. I Finished the day at the track with a slightly improved time from the spring and no top end from the engine.
I am trying to figure out why I have no top end? I have not moved the trailing timing to 10 degrees away from the leading, so it must be set to factory, could this be my problem?
The fuel pressure is staying very good at 2.5 psi with all of the parts everyone else is using, set the timing at 24 degrees BTDC and the only thing I can think of is the trailing timing.
I have an issue with the distributor, so did not try to set the trailing timing at the track, maybe I should have taken the time, looking back. I figured I would install my new corectly marked pulley before I tried to do this. Gonna try this week! Oh, thought I would mention, I am using vacuum advance and the distributor has the centrifigul advance operational too. The only other thing that I think it could be is the jetting, which I do not believe is the issue, since I did everythig else wrong at the start and I think Carl knows his stuff! Here is another question, hoping carl sees this post? What jets are beng used for my carb and what range of jets do I want? Standard port, headers, rats nest removed, DLSFI ignition. I want to be able to fine tune it if I need to in the future. Help me Carl! lol

well first off, this is exactly fitting for this thread, i see how youve related it, but for advice, you would get better responses if you started your own thread. but since im a nice guy, ill give it a shot;) i think you should get all of your timing issues sorted out, and then if your still missing up top, i would consider more fuel pressure, it sounds to me like your emptying your bowls...i dont think you would have a problem with the carter not giving you enough volume...if you have any questions, PM me if you want. and if i cant answer our questions, ill try and point you in the right direction!

I was re-reading the posts from the past that sterling has put in here and it does sound like it is still fuel starved, think I will check that too. Thanks for the help.
I don't know if I will get to it tonite, need to recover from a stressful weekend! lol But definitely this week and I will have an answer for you all, wish I had listened to begin with, I am a hardheaded pennsylvania dutchie and have to learn things the hard way!
Here is another question, wanna make sure I have it right. I have the fuel going to the holley regulator directly from the pump with the check valve removed and then into the input side of the carb, have the return plugged and use it for the gauge, any down side to this?

You've been sleeping in class! :)

Your description of the plumbing makes it sound like you have the lines backwards. If, by "check valve" you mean the little silver bullet that is in the fuel line, then that line is the return line not the feed...

I got my pump bracket completely isolated from the body now, and it's finally a little quieter. I used four 1/2" thick rubber bushings on both sides of the bracket, with fender washers. I also used some "Storm guard" sound deadening. Then I filled in all the gaps in the general area with wall insulation. It got even quieter. Mainly the floor of the storage bin, and the channels running behind the seats. It's finally bearable at idle with doors closed, lol. I can tune it out though, and the car will soon have a mild system, so it may disappear altogether.

I've been running 4 pounds of pressure for the last 2 days, with no ill effects? No flooding at all? According to everything I've read on the web anywhere, my car must be in the minority. I took it up to 60 mph with a lot of pedal, which is the fastest it's gone in ten years. I am getting this car back on the road, after that amount of time. Almost there! :icon_tup:

It chirped second gear, woohoo! Stock everything but plug wires and fuel pump :)

I left my return line intact, including the restrictor. Works fine.

blk82GSL - When I first installed my fuel pump, I did not even have a regulator to use at the time. Everything worked fine, maybe not "optimally", but fine. This is due to the restrictor on the return line, which sort of functions as a regulator. For proper tuning though, you will want a good fpr set to the proper pressure. Removing the return line (or the restrictor) is entirely optional though.

Well, I also have two filters. One before the pump, and one after the fpr and before the carb. The second may knock the pressure down half a pound. But seriously it runs great so far. The Holley FPR is a good one, I'd hope??? I also see no reason to remove the return line. I need to pass visual anyway.

I read that the Holley and Carter FPRs are the same unit and both are recommended.

Here is an update of my progress with the Sterling carb. I finally have it working well! wow! It took all the little things that everyone here suggests. I started with getting the fuel system with all the mods, carter pump, holley regulator and found an issue with pressure caused by a slightly kinked rubber line at the pump. I wanted to get the direct fire ignition system timed like we were told, added the marked pulley, fixed my screw up with the trailing/leading igniters and set the timing at 24 Leading and 14 Trailing. No rats nest, air pump gone and intake closed off. WIth advice from Carl, I tried removing the secondary air bleeds and the sucker took off, good thing there were no cops around, because I took off down the road like never before! It was a bit of effort, but I can't wait until next years hillclimb season, gonna be much better! Limited slip or a locked rear is next! Again guys, all the archives and a few questions here really helped, thanks to everyone!

Mine is still going great, despite constant warnings, hehe. After a sound deadening session
it's doable noisewise. Now if I could only get my damn power windows to stop going up crooked, I would be very happy indeed, lol. I also have built my own muffler, believe it or not. Got sick of "Pay the $300 or it will blow up in 6 months" thing, hehehe. Complete 16gauge steel construction, single 2.5 inlet, 3 inch deep chamber, and another chamber with two 2 inch perf. tubes passing through SS wool. I'm in it for about $120 or so, including a 2 inch holesaw, and three drill bits, and bending at a local steel fab shop. Where the inlet hits the back of the first chamber, I doubled the 16 gauge to help prevent burnouts. It should sound pretty cool, I have my fingers crossed. I will get some sound clips if it sounds good. I can build more if it goes well, hehe.

My wife has a pair of vice grips on the project right now. She has no clue how close it actually is to being roadworthy. Getting closer every day!!

Very good to hear man! :) What was the purpose of removing the secondary air bleeds though?

Okay guys! I've got my Holley FPR installed, and I've got my Carter sitting in a box. My problem is the lack of a location for the Carter. In the same spot (at least I think it's the same spot) that most of you guys have your Carters mounted, I have my Holley Blue mounted.

Now, most of you guys would instantly think "just pull out the Holley and put in the Carter", but I'm not willing to do that. I'm putting in this Carter to replace my dual Facets, and I like having multiple pumps for redundancy. I like to know that if one of them fails on the way to work/school, I can flip a switch and have my other pump flip on. My Facet(s) is/are slowly dying on me, and I'd really like to get the Carter in before they go out completely.

My Facets are now located where the stock pump was; however, the Carter cannot be mounted right there due to road clearance. So, do you guys know of any other suitable locations for my Carter? Do you guys think that there is enough room near the rear suspension to fit both my Holley Blue and my Carter?

Thanks for any input.

BTW, I mounted my Holley FPR on the driver's side fender well right behind the wheel well. Right by the clutch fluid resevior but on the fender's side; not the firewall side.

What in God's name are you trying to feed anyway? Unless you have a V8 with a turbo and a supercharger both, you are trying to overkill your overkill! Redundancy is nice, sometimes, but there comes a point where even I have to say "come on now".... If you are determined to run all of those pumps on the same car, you're going to have to split the line and run them in parellel rather than in series. I don't believe that pumps like the carter can be run in series.

I thought the FPR was supposed to be within 12 inches of the carb, or at least as close as possible? I also say pick a pump and go with it. You only need one good one?

I think removing the air bleeds was to supply more air into the carb which I guess is telling Carl that the jets are too big and running too rich as received it. I don't know what size jets he supplied with the carb, and I am waiting for his response to my email. This is what he told me that he expected because he said he would rather supply the carb too rich rather than too lean so that I don't burn my engine up, makes sense to me. So, I removed them and instantly the car was drivable and noticeably faster! Guess we can let sterling or Carl ring in on this one? lol All I can say is that I think I am gonna really enjoy driving it now! Now to find out what breaks first after this mod! lol I am sure I will wear something out, going up the hillclimbs is a bit tough on cars, but can't wait until next season now!

Exactly, I wanted to lean the top end a bit to see if thats where we need to improve your car. Sorry for being such a slacker lately. I'll get with you via email and get you those new jets.


BTW- Great thread guys! Ken, thats where the pump on the racecar is mounted, and yes adding dedicated power wiring improved the pump performance. (FYI- The ground is actually on the right headlight motor mount bolt, at least on the 84-85 cars :wtf: I havent a clue as to why) Of course with no insulation its still loud lol. On the streetcar I mounted it on the upward slope of the body, aft of the stock location. NEVER mount these pumps horizontally. BTDT. :eek:

I think you guys are mistaken.... I don't have both pumps running at the same time.

I have one that will run normally, but in the event of a failure, I have a back up already wired up ready to go.

For example, I used to run strictly on my Facets during normal driving, but when they started to fail, I flipped the switch, which turned off the Facets and turned on the Holley. The Carter is going in place of the Facets, and will be used most of the time. I have two seperate fuel lines run. One to the Holley and one going to the Facets.

Kentetsu...are you busy?
 

Kentetsu,

Before I let all the smoke out of my wires, I wanted to ask you one more question about hooking up the relay to the fuel pump. The relay came with no instructions other than a picture (which I don't understand). Can you identify which connector goes where? Please see the last picture and tell me where #'s 87, 85, 86, and 30 connect. (And please tell me if I bought the wrong stuff.)

Here's what I bought:
Attachment 700495

Here's the relay:
Attachment 700496
Attachment 700497

And here's a drawing:
Attachment 700498

Thanks a million!!!

DD

Here is a wiring diagram for a typical relay

http://www.ado13.com/techs/relay.htm

MtotheIKEo,

That is awesome!!! I didn't even know there was a "typical" setup, and that all the numbers actually mean something in some universal electrical universe.

Thanks!!!!!

DD

I see I got here too late :) Thanks for picking up my slack MtotheIKEo. I don't know why they don't make the indicators for the tabs a little easier to understand, rather than using a number system that makes no sense to us laymen. :)