No problem. When I first started doing a lot of electrical stuff and having to use relays I made a big diagram of what each connector does and stuck it up on my garage wall.

I just installed a Holley regulator this morning. Made a bracket and bolted it to some bolt on top of the motor. Next up is installing the Holley pump. I had the NOS gauage laying around so it is being used. I didnt feel like paying 30 bucks for a new gauge right now. Maybe down the road I will.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ator2small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...latorsmall.jpg

MtotheIKEo,

Looks good! And I can't tell you how much that diagram helped! It's so simple (now) that it makes me feel kind of stupid. Well, anyway, I guess everything is easy...once you know how to do it.

Lodi huh? That's not by any chance Lodi, Ohio is it? If so, I did some cruisin' there "back in the day" when my 69 Z-28 Camaro was only 3 years old. Boy, was THAT a long time ago.

Thanks again!

DD

No problem, I know how you felt, its so much easier to run one hot wire isnt it.
Sorry but its Lodi, CA.

MtotheIKEo how big of a fuse did you go with for the carter pump?

personally i like using these relays, i have used them on my second gen for the pump and e-fan with great success.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bosch...spagenameZWDVW

Havent installed it yet, and I have a Holley Red. I havent looked up what kind of amperage its supposed to draw.

I'm requesting one more response to make this Fuel Pump relay installation "idiot proof" for me and future reference.

On the relay there are 4 numbers.
#30 goes to the inline fuse holder and fusible link location for power.
#85 goes to ground.
#86 goes to ignition (switch).
#87 goes to fuel pump.

Attachment 700499

Here is the white plastic connector (that will be disconnected) under the driver's side storage bin where the relay will be installed.

Attachment 700500


I separate the plug and now have a connector A on the left with 2 wires that go to the fuel pump through a grommet in the floor of the bin area (the wires are wrapped in a blue tube in the picture above).

Left wire 1 is black with a white stripe.
Left wire 2 is black.

I also have a connector B on the right that goes to the front of the car (ignition switch I presume).

Right wire 3 is black with a green stripe.
Right wire 4 is black.

Here's where I ask you to fill in the missing information:

Relay #87 gets connected to Left wire (is it 1 or 2)?
Relay #85 goes to ground. Does this connect to an existing wire, or do I just run a ground wire to the metal in the bin area?

Relay #30 gets connected to Right wire (is it 3 or 4)?
Relay #86 gets connected to Right wire (is it 3 or 4)?

Feel free to correct anything I've stated above. What I need, simply put, are "relay" numbers to connect to "wire" numbers. There's a great wiring diagram on page 289 (top right corner) of the Haynes manual that I looked at as I stroked my chin and said "hmmmm".

Thanks,

DD

Damn, I knew I should've take some pics when I did this... Actually, I think I did but I can't find them on my wife's computer. :) Okay, for the trigger wire just find out which of the two wires show voltage while cranking. Other than that, you have power to the relay; power to the pump; and ground (which goes to ground, I used a bolt under the storage bin). I hope this helps, its the best I can do without tearing out my storage bins...

Kentesu mentioned getting more power by rewiring the fuel pump. This makes me suspect some serious pressure drop going on from the pump to the regulator. I am curious how much peak pressure drop there is through the 5/16" lines. Carters come with an internal pressure relief preset at 6, 8, or 18. If you have the 6 it is likely you don't have 6 by the time it gets to the Carb. Since most of you have fancy FRPs the 18 might be a better choise. I personally prefer an EFI pump. They never run out of pressure and are real quite.

I have general rant about having 2-port fuel pressure regulators mounted in line to the carb. It's fine to do this if you don't have a return line, but the RX has one. A 2-port regulator is commonly known as a backbressure regulator and should be used as such. If you ran it off a tee on the line to the carb it would still regulate pressure and would not obstruct flow. Essentially it would function as a 3-port regulator.

Got it figured out. Now I can read a wiring diagram better. The striped wire is the switched 12V source. That's what I suspected but wanted it confirmed.

What kept throwing me off, kentetsu, was that you never mentioned the original black (ground) wire coming from the fuel pump (the one wrapped in a blue tube)getting grounded anywhere. But it HAS to go to ground to complete the circuit, right. So I'll ground it where I also ground the relay.

You actually show the pump negative going to ground in your "line drawing" but it wasn't stated anywhere and that was the missing link for me.

Thanks,

DD

Sorry, I started off by using the stock ground wire on my new pump. Later, I also added a ground wire going right to the mounting point of the pump just to be sure that I had a good ground...

I made a fresh ground on the floor board, and attached both grounds to it. Relay and pump. The wires might be 6 inches long at most. It works anyway. The pump is still LOUD as fock though.

Yes, the pump is loud. When mounted on the frame rail it is not nearly as loud as when mounted below the storage bin. I think that if somebody (um, Respeed maybe?) was to fabricate a mount for the pump to further isolate it from the frame rail, this would help with both the noise and any mounting difficulties. We'll have to see what Billy has to say on this. :)

Before I go for an inspection, I need to secure the pump a bit. It's not hanging down enough to scrape so much, but it does need a skid plate. I want to try and flip the pump and mount it to the skid oplate like the factory did it. The only thing that's stopping me is the hose routing. The pump is so bulky that it would take a LOT more hose just to route them again. Mine is loud, but I also have no radio, and mostly have heard it at idle. On my one test drive it kind of faded into the background.,,,,BD

Keep in mind that the pump must be installed in an upright position. The way that mine is mounted seems to provide plenty of clearance.

Bump for bigger picture

Sorry buddy, but that was the only pic I had and I don't even have that one anymore. If you have a specific question, I will try to answer it to the best of my ability...

i tried this and my pump isnt getting any power. any suggestions?

here is a pic of how mine is wired.

also, i dont know if this matters or not, but the ground from the pump and from the relay are set at the same place, the bolt that holds the drivers side seat belt assembly to the car. there in the same crimp with the end of the crimp underneath the lock washer tightened down. my only other ideas are either i need to redo the switch wire a different way, or my trailing ignitor is out?

There should be no power going to the pump on ACC (i'm assuming you're doing this mod to your 84 and not your 80) The 84-85, the power only comes on when you crank the engine. This can be overrided by the shorting a connection under the dash.

it is to my 85. i know. the fuel pump relay. if thats not the problem, then what is? my only ideas are the igitor or i wired something wrong.

The drawing looks right. Look at this link:

http://www.ado13.com/techs/relay.htm

DD

i used that link. thats why im saying i have no idea why it isnt getting power

Is the striped wire from the fuel pump connected to 87 on the relay?

You double checked and cleaned the grounds?

Of course, test the wires themselves for conductivity and the new fuse you installed near the fuse block (aw, just replace the fuse).

Maybe the relay is bad?

If you take pictures of each wire connection at the fuse block, the relay, and the fuel pump, maybe we can see what's happening.

Hey, I just thought of something else. Since you shouldn't have cut any wires to do this mod/upgrade, just hook your fuel pump back up in the original configuration and make sure everything still works!

If it does, then your new setup is definately at fault. If it doesn't, then your fuel pump or another fuse may be bad... Two separate issues.

Don't give up.

DD

i figured it out. the wire that runs from the relay to the battery had come loose when i was pulling it through the fire wall. i hooked it back up and it worked fine all day yesterday. my pump wasnt quieter though. also, i had my fuel pressure gauge hooked up when it came on. i had my pressure set at 2psi before. as soon as i started my car with this set up it was only showing around 1.5-1.75psi. i readjusted it back to 2psi. i dont see why itd make the pressure drop if the pump is getting more power now? oh well. its working fine so im happy.

My fuel pressure kept jumping all over the place for the first couple of weeks. I just kept adjusting it to the proper setting, and after a while it seemed to settle down a bit. I don't think I'm having the issue any more, but I guess I should check on it. :)

ill check it every once in a while i guess. i just got home from driving to college for my placement test. when i pulled in my yard i had 1/8 of a tank left. so you know what i did? dropped a full can of sea foam in it;)

Good call man! :) Nice to know I'm not talking to the way when I advise the use of Seafoam! Could you feel any improvement afterward?

ive stood behind sea foam for a while now. i prefer direct injection over adding it to teh fuel. ive added it to many of my friends cars; MS protege, BMW 3 series, etc. they all were shocked at the results and now they too stand behind sea foam. i only got to drive it about 5 or so miles before i had to fill her up. i had less gas than i thought:) i noticed a little, but not as much as desired. thats why i have another can and ill do direct injection soon :D

just an update on the relay mod.

i have mine wired up as displayed above. im using the stock power wire. i could be wrong but i think my pump actually got louded. i know for a fact it pulses with blinkers, hazards, brake pedal compression, etc.

i think its pointless to do this mod unless you make the power wire bigger. i dont know if thatd fix my surging, but it could. will i do it? no. why? cause i want the pump to still run only when im trying to crank it. i want the ability to sit with my car is acc and listen to the radio without flooding my engine or having to pull a fuse. i dont know if ill leave it as is, or return it to the stock wiring.

When I did mine, I ran 10 gauge wire for the feed and a relay to control it. The operation of the pump stays the same, since it is still "triggered" by the stock wiring and controls. Know what I mean?

I have the carter and holley fpr setup at 3 psi and it quits on me. It has happened a couple of times, all cruising at 35-40mph, warm 70-80's, and humid. I will be driving along and the car sputters and dies. I have replaced the fuel filter and it looked clean inside, but when it goes out, i can hear the pump ticking, fuel filters do not fill, and guage reads 0 psi. After 10-20 minutes i can go back and it will start right up. I do not have a relay wired up, and i was thinking that the pump may be overheating. Any ideas or tests you can think of?

i have 10 gauge wire for the ground, ran straight to a constant power source, but i hav ethe stock(16?) gauge for the switched power wire. id like to use 10g for this as well, but how would i hook that up? just run a 10g wire with a spade on the end to where the stock fuel pump wire connects? i dont see that solving the problem since the rest of the wiring is still the stock size. i could be wrong though.

ok i just did the upgrade. i got the bigger higher flow rate carter.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

comparing the picture to wat is on my car, it is much larger. finding a spot to if it was hard even with teh cut/check valve out. i ended up just using zip ties at 4 different points. i still want to bolt it down tho. i changed all my lines to 3/8 and my regulator is currently sitting all the way by my master cyl. i am using the stock power wire to the pump and i dunno if its cuz its sip tied but the carter is freakin quiet. compared to the the stock bee buzzing in my ear, the carter is a soft hmm in the distance. as for the power flucuating, maybe its cuz im running an s5 alternator but everythign seems to be good on my end except for fuel pump location.

EDIT: BTW i didnt see this in the archives or am i just blind :pat:

Only the main power feed to the pump needs to be heavy gauge. The "switched" power wire (what would be the original power feed to the pump) is smaller gauge, but now all it has to do is trip the relay so that's okay if you leave it small (no heavy current on that wire anyway now).

woodonastick- Yeah, the reason that your pump is so quiet is probably because of the "loose" mounting. I'm going to design a mounting bracked made out of spring steel that will bolt to the frame rail. The pump will then mount to the spring steel bracket, which should allow the pump to vibrate all it wants without transmitting the noise to the frame of the car. Should be much quieter, and will maybe help the pump live longer since I won't be trying to fight the vibration by mounting is solidly to the frame...

I'm having some trouble with my fuel pressure after installing a new pump and fpr.

I've got a 1-4 psi carter pump, 1-4 psi holley reg, Ive got stock nikki carb. I have a fpr connected to one of the outlet ports on the fpr (its a liquid filled guage, speco brand). I am also running a relay for the pump.

The problem I'm having is my fuel pressure is very low, according to the guage when I start my car pressure is at around 3 psi, by the time my car has warmed up I have nearly 0 psi fuel pressure, I've tried adjusting the fpr but it doesn't do anything.

I was previously running the fuel pressure guage on the line going to the carb, I was getting the same kind of reading with it in that spot. so...

I'm thinking its one of these things:

-kinked line somewhere
-fuel pump hooked up backwards (I haven't tested to see, is it possible for it to run in reverse?)
-faulty pressure guage

is there any other possible cause for this to happen? The car still runs to, I can drive around but it doesn't feel very good. Another thing is that when my fuel is almost empty the car seems to run like it should.

I also have a carter 6 psi pump would it be better to run a bigger pump and adjust the pressure down?

one other thing, when we were installing the pump for some reason the fuel filter has ended up above the fuel tank level, should the filter be in its stock position (below the fuel tank)? since the pump is gravity fed could this be causing any problems?

what are the advantages of blocking the return line? wouldn't this cause vapour lock inside the carb?

Lots of questions :lol2:

Cheers!

(This thread should be in your archive)

Cheap gauges aren't worth a crap. They are notoriously inaccurate. Best gauge at the best price will be found at www.re-speed.com They did the research, and found the best unit. I have one, and will attest to the fact that it is a quality and highly accurate gauge.

Holley fpr sometimes have burrs in the casting that will cause random pressures. You may have to disassemble it and clean it up with some fine sand paper.

Stock Nikki car only requires something like 2 - 2.5 psi (if I remember correctly), so your pump should be fine. If the car runs at all, then the pump is not wired backwards, so don't worry about that.

For now, I would suggest that you clean up the fpr and then set your pressure by the seat of your pants. Throw that gauge you've got in the trash, it's doing you no good right now. When you can afford the respeed gauge (50 bucks?) then grab one. Good luck man. :)

Oh yeah, and thank you very much for utilizing the search function! Much appreciated....

My pump was putting out 2.5 pounds, and the car wouldn't stay running. Now running around 4 if not a bit more. No flooding or any such issues. Carter universal pump and Holley FPR with a stock nikki. Two filters. One at the tank, and one up front.,,,,,Blk

:dunno: :dunno:

+infinity on the ReSpeed FPG

ok cool guess I'll have to get a new guage and I'll pull the fpr apart( is it very difficult?)

I live in australia so not sure how long it would take to get one of those guages shipped over, or if they can do that. The guage I got was quite expensive too ($AU40) probably because its got liquid stuff in it.

I've set the fpr so it should be running at roughly 3-4 psi (wound it in quite a bit) and seems to be running alot better since put in the relay. It says in the haynes manual and my mazda factory manual that the fuel pressure should be between 3.7 and 4.7 psi, but I've heard lots of different views on that one, supposedly the stock pump can only produce 4psi max anyway :dunno:

Thanks for your help!

Shoot a private message to Bwaits. He can tell you if they can ship the gauge to you, how long it will take to get it, etc. Really great people to work with..... You know its a good sign when people from a company like that actually hang out on the forum, listening to what people want/need. :)

I know, I know, Holy Old Thread Batman!! I've been following this thread trying to commit most of the technical stuff to memory, and Christmas has brought me a new Holley fpr and Carter pump. I remember a couple people looking for pics of the wiring and I took a few while I was putting the relay together yesterday. I'm not quite finished though. The regulator is mounted, but not hooked up, and the pump won't be going on until I get my hands on a jack, but that's hardly why I'm posting now.

The first pic is of the relay itself, wired up. Also of note in the first pic is that big mess of yellow electrical tape. This was also an attempt to leave the stock wiring as intact as I could. I did not have the appropriate connectors so I used the stock one and attached a short piece of wire in between it and the relay, along with a couple connectors I DID have. All the black wire I used is 8 Ga, as that is what I had at hand, and I wasn't about to shell out another 15 bucks for a spool of 10ga.

The second shows how I left the ground wires intact in the connector, mostly to cut down on time and keep it simple. The pump was working before so the ground must be fine, however I will be adding the second ground from the pump straight to the chassis.

The third pic just shows that I left the stock wiring intact.

Fourth is of the connection at the fusible links for direct battery power.

Lastly the spot that I (and I'm sure mostly everyone else) used to put the wire into the cabin. This spot will put the wire right above the dead pedal, then run it under the kick panel, and under the side sill to the original pump wiring. The black crap is just window putty to keep the thing sealed up.

Here are some shots of my FPR mounted. The first shot is a top angle, and circled in red shows a clearance issue I have with the inlet. I may just add an elbow before the fitting if it turns out to be a problem. The second is a shot from the passenger side. Circled is another issue, but this time it's Holley's fault. The screw heads for the included mount are too thick, and do not allow the regulator to sit flush on the mount. I've tightened the two bottom screws for the FPR so it shouldn't be a problem. It's showing no movement when I grab and wiggle it. Has anyone else run into this? Also a good shot of the mount I had to make for the mount, so the right side outlet would clear the hood latch. The third shows the outlets narrow path between the hood latch and my RB torque brace.

just did my upgrade i have to get a fitting to put the gage in but it seems to be runing fine not sure if it is at enough for the OER i will be putting on but i will go to the store and get some more fittings tonight here are some pics

glad i got my gauge it said i was only running at 1.5 psi but it seemed to run fine i guess the stock nikki really dosen't put out a lot of fuel. but here are some pics of the fpr with the gauge, stupid me forgot to check if the hood would shut so i had to turn the gauge to face the airbox