View Poll Results: If money where not an issue, which would you rather have?
Turbocharger
118
62.43%
Supercharger
71
37.57%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll
(ENGINE) Turbo or Supercharger??
07-14-02, 02:23 AM
#51
Good write up Jim, but let me interject for a few minor details.
I found this to be a funny remark, and a very true statement.. 
The Haltech does have rev limiting (two stage as well!), boost control (easily controlled with an adapter), NOS control, turbo timer output, shift light, anti-lag, and many other goodies. Not everybody can use a handheld display for tuning like the Wolf. Haltechs require a PC.
Both are outstanding units with technology that just was not even heard of more than 7 years ago. I also believe ECU choices are also GREATLY influenced by the local tuning shops. Whatever they use, - you use, for simplicity's sake, if you want their help.
Yes and no. CFM will make more of a difference than just boost levels. For example, you can make X HP on a stock Turbo at 15 lbs, and the same X HP on a stage II turbo at only 10lbs of boost because of the higher CFM.
Good prices. I need to shop with you!
I like the "on a rotary" part.
With the exception of Multimillion dollar race car teams, Boost (theoretically) "should not be used for more than 15 seconds at a time" - Corky Bell, Maximum Boost.
YMMV? Just guessing what that means.
Many Modern Superchargers and kits do have engine oil and water cooling.. (they all have oil cooling, even if self lubricated)
Again, good write-up!
Originally posted by NOTA V6
IMO, if SCs were really that great on NA rotary blocks, you would see a "SCing my NA" sticky thread rather than a "TII swap into a GSL-SE" sticky thread. Look at the number of people doing the TII transplant and the number of people doing the SC.
IMO, if SCs were really that great on NA rotary blocks, you would see a "SCing my NA" sticky thread rather than a "TII swap into a GSL-SE" sticky thread. Look at the number of people doing the TII transplant and the number of people doing the SC.
Originally posted by NOTA V6
After all, look at all the turbo rotary herd stuck on their Haltechs while the Wolf 3D V4 is better in just about every way (also my opinion), and has boost control, turbo timing and rev limiting built in.
After all, look at all the turbo rotary herd stuck on their Haltechs while the Wolf 3D V4 is better in just about every way (also my opinion), and has boost control, turbo timing and rev limiting built in.
Both are outstanding units with technology that just was not even heard of more than 7 years ago. I also believe ECU choices are also GREATLY influenced by the local tuning shops. Whatever they use, - you use, for simplicity's sake, if you want their help.
Originally posted by NOTA V6
It's all the same stress levels and costs pretty much the same, pound for pound of boost.
It's all the same stress levels and costs pretty much the same, pound for pound of boost.
Yes and no. CFM will make more of a difference than just boost levels. For example, you can make X HP on a stock Turbo at 15 lbs, and the same X HP on a stage II turbo at only 10lbs of boost because of the higher CFM.
Originally posted by NOTA V6
$693 - T-60-1 Garret turbo (shipped)
$250 - HKS manifold
$336 HKS 40 mm wastegate
$50 - Mitsu Starion IC from junk yard
$350? - IC piping and welding
$147 - pair of 1600cc injectors (shipped)
$197 - Bosch 550 hp Fuel pump
$693 - T-60-1 Garret turbo (shipped)
$250 - HKS manifold
$336 HKS 40 mm wastegate
$50 - Mitsu Starion IC from junk yard
$350? - IC piping and welding
$147 - pair of 1600cc injectors (shipped)
$197 - Bosch 550 hp Fuel pump
Good prices. I need to shop with you!
Originally posted by NOTA V6
Boost is not good for endurance racing, it's good for acceleration. At least on a rotary. Again, that's my personal opinion based on my own observations.
Boost is not good for endurance racing, it's good for acceleration. At least on a rotary. Again, that's my personal opinion based on my own observations.
I like the "on a rotary" part.
With the exception of Multimillion dollar race car teams, Boost (theoretically) "should not be used for more than 15 seconds at a time" - Corky Bell, Maximum Boost.
Originally posted by NOTA V6
YMMV according to your local autox course format.
YMMV according to your local autox course format.
YMMV? Just guessing what that means.
Originally posted by NOTA V6
Turbos are oil cooled, and sometimes water cooled too. SCs are not.
Turbos are oil cooled, and sometimes water cooled too. SCs are not.
Again, good write-up!
Last edited by Directfreak; 07-14-02 at 02:25 AM.
07-14-02, 11:57 AM
#54
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Hey guys,
Alex's comments got me to look over a couple of mine.
Haltech comment: I guess I formulated an opinion without really digging in on the information available. It was pointed out to me by a couple of actual Haltech users that most people buy them simply because most people buy them. That was my point really, not that the Haltech is a bad unit. Sorry to you Haltech guys. No offense intended.
Boost - lb. for lb. comment: I was not clear enough. I was assuming that with equal boost, that the same CFM would actually be entering the intake. I wanted to make an apples to apples comparison about the equal boost levels, and the higher boost potential of the turbo.
Thanks for pointing out the addition of oil and water cooling on the modern SC units Alex. This actually confirms my suspicions that the SC air compression causes just as much heat per psi of air compression as a turbo, since it requires cooling of the compressor. So again, the turbo has the additional heat disadvantage of being directly bolted on to an exhaust (turbo) manifold.
You can come shopping with me any time. PM or e-mail me if you want info on where I got any of these prices (except the junk yard IC, since they don't intentionally stock Starions/Conquests just for us. And the IC piping and welding I sourced out through a local friend). I would announce them here, but none of them are paying me for the advertising. Eventually, I will put reviews of all of the places I bought parts from on the Northstar vendor page.
Thanks for the kind words.
Alex's comments got me to look over a couple of mine.
Haltech comment: I guess I formulated an opinion without really digging in on the information available. It was pointed out to me by a couple of actual Haltech users that most people buy them simply because most people buy them. That was my point really, not that the Haltech is a bad unit.
Sorry to you Haltech guys. No offense intended. Boost - lb. for lb. comment: I was not clear enough. I was assuming that with equal boost, that the same CFM would actually be entering the intake. I wanted to make an apples to apples comparison about the equal boost levels, and the higher boost potential of the turbo.
Thanks for pointing out the addition of oil and water cooling on the modern SC units Alex.
This actually confirms my suspicions that the SC air compression causes just as much heat per psi of air compression as a turbo, since it requires cooling of the compressor. So again, the turbo has the additional heat disadvantage of being directly bolted on to an exhaust (turbo) manifold.You can come shopping with me any time.
PM or e-mail me if you want info on where I got any of these prices (except the junk yard IC, since they don't intentionally stock Starions/Conquests just for us. And the IC piping and welding I sourced out through a local friend). I would announce them here, but none of them are paying me for the advertising. Eventually, I will put reviews of all of the places I bought parts from on the Northstar vendor page.Thanks for the kind words.
07-14-02, 12:47 PM
#55
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Hey Jim thought you weren't going to use that I/C that you had? Did you have someone fix that crack at the bottom? Also I talked to a few of my bussies and they said not to worry about the fins bending, they didn't do that because they were old just because they are so damn thin. I took a look at my I/C that hasn't even been run yet and the fins were week also, just took a small screwdriver and spent a few min getting them back into place. I hope you end up using that I/C it looks to about the perfect size because of you running the A/C and all...
Have you made any progess since I was there? After taking a look at your TB I decided to do the same I also ordered my turbo, TD07 25G 17cm divided exhaust housing. Just waiting on that so I can see what I need to do for a exhaust manifold.
Cam
Have you made any progess since I was there? After taking a look at your TB I decided to do the same
I also ordered my turbo, TD07 25G 17cm divided exhaust housing. Just waiting on that so I can see what I need to do for a exhaust manifold.Cam
07-14-02, 01:14 PM
#56
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Hey Cam,
After sourcing FMICs, I determined that we can make the Starion IC work. I am planning on returning the black panel that fits over the condenser into place, and it will not be mounted in the grill opening. So it will be hidden after all, so it can be ugly as all get out, as long as it works. So, we will gum it up with as much welding as it takes to seal it. Why do they get so much for an IC anyways? It's just a radiator with fins on the inside too...
Many of my parts have arrived, but I have to get up my ambition to get out to the garage and start doing things again. I'm sure when the turbo arrives, I will have to get out there and install it. After I finish making whooshing sounds with my mouth, and throwing myself back into my chair. The pace slowed down quite a bit on my project when I realized it wouldn't be ready for the MRR.
Take care,
Jim
After sourcing FMICs, I determined that we can make the Starion IC work.
I am planning on returning the black panel that fits over the condenser into place, and it will not be mounted in the grill opening. So it will be hidden after all, so it can be ugly as all get out, as long as it works. So, we will gum it up with as much welding as it takes to seal it. Why do they get so much for an IC anyways? It's just a radiator with fins on the inside too...Many of my parts have arrived, but I have to get up my ambition to get out to the garage and start doing things again. I'm sure when the turbo arrives, I will have to get out there and install it. After I finish making whooshing sounds with my mouth, and throwing myself back into my chair.
The pace slowed down quite a bit on my project when I realized it wouldn't be ready for the MRR.Take care,
Jim
07-14-02, 04:41 PM
#57
Originally posted by NOTA V6
After I finish making whooshing sounds with my mouth, and throwing myself back into my chair.
After I finish making whooshing sounds with my mouth, and throwing myself back into my chair.
I know what you mean Jim, today I put the turbo in my car.
I know it's not exactly what you mean though.
Actually, all I am waiting for now is my new Fuel Rails, and I will start putting everything in the car. I am 95% done with the parts buying. I even got the Haltech last week.
07-14-02, 04:53 PM
#58
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Jim-
I'm sure once you get your turbo you'll have a lot more ambition to get out there to work on it, I have a feeling when I get mine (hopefully sometime in the next week or so) I'll be out there in the garage getting some buisness done
Alex-
What turbo is that?
I'm sure once you get your turbo you'll have a lot more ambition to get out there to work on it, I have a feeling when I get mine (hopefully sometime in the next week or so) I'll be out there in the garage getting some buisness done
Alex-
What turbo is that?
07-14-02, 05:20 PM
#60
Super Newbie
Originally posted by setzep
Have you made any progess since I was there? After taking a look at your TB I decided to do the same I also ordered my turbo, TD07 25G 17cm divided exhaust housing. Just waiting on that so I can see what I need to do for a exhaust manifold.
Cam
Have you made any progess since I was there? After taking a look at your TB I decided to do the same
I also ordered my turbo, TD07 25G 17cm divided exhaust housing. Just waiting on that so I can see what I need to do for a exhaust manifold.Cam
Last edited by Felix Wankel; 07-14-02 at 05:23 PM.
07-15-02, 02:39 AM
#61
Open up! Search Warrant!
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I have created a thread that will live in the archives forever!!!!! <sinister laugh trails off into the background>
08-09-02, 09:00 PM
#64
i prefer turbocharging to supercharging, and my reasons are totally subjective. i think turbos are easier on the motor itself, i think they have far more potential, and lastly, i love the sounds of them. i hate the "whining" that i've come to associate with superchargers.
08-10-02, 12:52 PM
#66
for you guys that are running or are going to run turbos (by the way, i'm a jealous, playa-hatin' bitch and i fully admit it - I hate you ALL ) how are you going to deal with the space problem up front when you mount the intercoolers?
nice work guys!
yes, i must agree
) how are you going to deal with the space problem up front when you mount the intercoolers?nice work guys!
yes, i must agree
08-10-02, 12:59 PM
#67
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Mine will sit on top of the oil cooler in front of the rad and condenser. If things run too hot, the AC will have to go...
1st gens have lots of extra space in that big pointy nose.
1st gens have lots of extra space in that big pointy nose.
08-10-02, 07:39 PM
#68
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Originally posted by diabolical1
for you guys that are running or are going to run turbos (by the way, i'm a jealous, playa-hatin' bitch and i fully admit it - I hate you ALL) how are you going to deal with the space problem up front when you mount the intercoolers?
nice work guys!
yes, i must agree
for you guys that are running or are going to run turbos (by the way, i'm a jealous, playa-hatin' bitch and i fully admit it - I hate you ALL
) how are you going to deal with the space problem up front when you mount the intercoolers?nice work guys!
yes, i must agree
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