Zebb

Mazda recommend mineral oil for a reson:

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I've broken down many many FD engines that were running synthetic, and I've never seen anything like that.

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

Ugh, damn it, I thought everyone had agreed that synthetic was okay? I just switched over about 2k miles ago, now this makes me nervous.

Zebb

Yeah, but this prove that syntetics generates alot of carbon deposit that have to go somewhere, and it cant be good. Maybe its not that evident on a turbo rotary?

Mazda screwed up when they recommended syntetics in the Rx-8.

This applys to the Rx-7 too. But somehow they knew better back in 92-02...

Zebb

Yes i know, its hilarious. Every time someone says: "do not use syntetics!" the so called experts appears from above and write: "WRROOOONG" and then they close the thread.

rynberg

"so called experts" huh?

Most of the long-term and experienced members here either run synthetic or have torn-down engines that have and have seen no evidence of this problem. Synthetics lubricate better and can handle the high rotary heat better. They are better for the turbos also.

This topic has been debated ad nauseum, which is why threads are closed. The RX-8s have a lot of problems, the least of which is what synthetic oil does to the engine.

Zebb

Im not saying im an expert, because im not. Rather far from it actually... very far...

What im saying is that the Mazda techs are the real experts and the average (or whats it called in english) Rx-7 driver/mech should listen to them.

rynberg

NOT. How about listening to the real world experience of thousands of people who drive these cars? How about listening to the good shops that rebuild rotaries on a daily basis? How about listening to Racing Beat, one of the old school rotary shops? I think you'll find almost no one saying that synthetic is bad for a rotary.

You would know this if you actually read the older oil debate threads.....

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Mazda screwed up a lot of things on the RX8. Add this recommendation to the list!

Look at that ridiculous list of oils they recommend. You can't buy those anywhere that I know of.

Zebb

So what you are saying is that Mazda, who have produced over 800,000 (or more?) rotarys are wrong?

Hmmm... NOT!

But serious; maybe you should save this document in the FAQ?

yuichiror

iTrader: (1)

OMG, somebody close this thread. There's tons of rotary car owners that have used synthetic oil with absolutely no issues. You'd be hard pressed to find a single owner that can attribute his/her engine failure to the use of modern synthetic oil.

Kento

You might want to check the definition of the highlighted words taken from this bulletin:
"If synthetic engine oil is used on rotary engine, there is a possibility that carbon deposit may get accumulated, which may cause some trouble in the engine."
"Mazda does not recommend that our customers use synthetic or semi-synthetic engine oils that our R&D has not evaluated."
So what synthetic oils did they evaluate? You must keep in mind that manufacturers try to keep warranty claims from draining their profits, so any situation that could be deemed possible in real-world use to cause problems that would require engine failure/teardown is utilized as a possible example. And yet they also need to be careful of possible legal liability if they name a specific oil that gave these "results", because besides the specific engine oil, there's no telling how this specific engine was run or how much mileage was put on it to generate the accumulation (which is pretty darn drastic) shown in the photos. With the rate that rotary engines get torn down compared to their piston counterparts, you'd think that there would be way too many examples similar to this that would've been discovered long ago from synthetic oil usage. Sorry, but there is too much evidence to the contrary to make me stop using synthetic in my FD.

Zebb

How do you know? Maybe its a common cause?

Kento

Read the second-to-last sentence in my previous response...

Zebb

Yeah, i hear what ure saying. But dont you think changing from syntetic to non-syntetic is a VERY drastic measure? Do you think this have hapend with only one car?

They say its a possibility and thats enough for me. I mean, why does carbon build up in the first place? There must be a reason, and it cant be good.

SLOASFK

iTrader: (5)

I would never trust anyone who says to run 5w30 in a twin turbo rotary...

KINETIK_FD3S

didn't someone post that a mazda guest speaker at sevenstock said that some syn-oils are not recommended like mobil1 but others like royal purple are safe to use?

i'm using castrol gtx right now but plan on using royal purple when i decide to rebuild my engine, i was told by someone at royal purple that synthetic is fine to use as long as your oil seals are not in bad shape, i'm going to look for his e-mail reply and post here.

silverTRD

iTrader: (36)

just close this already my gosh! lol it is funny though to see newer member's getting proved wrong and they wont admit it. this happened to me in the beginning. i can admit when im wrong though...hehe

KINETIK_FD3S

Richard,



How the heck do you have an email name as Supra turbo and own the fastest badest street rotary ever produced by Mazda?



I have a 1994 R2.



What kind of mileage on your ’93 and what oil have you been using?

Any performance upgrades / mods?

Unless the engine has marginal seals now that are being masked by sludge buildup, switching to RP will not cause any seal problems. If you do have marginal seals, there is a 50/50 chance that they could get better or worse when the added solvency of the synthetic base stocks and additives try to clean up the pre-existing deposits in the engine. If the seals are good but being compromised by the carbon and sludge, they will perform better once the deposits are gone. If the seals are bad and the sludge and carbon buildup is the only thing holding the marginal seal together, once we remove the carbon and sludge, the marginal seal will become apparent.



If you still have the twins, using a synthetic engine oil is the best thing you can do to give your turbo oil seals a chance to live.



I use the Racing 41 in the engine due to the high ambient heat here in Houston.

My engine is stock save for a downpipe and cat back.



The MaxGear 75W90 is excellent for the tranny and differential.

The MaxEZ power Steering Fluid is a must for the high under hood temps of the third gen. (250 F or higher is normal!!!)



In the street API oils, Mazda originally spec’d a 10W30 which is fine when the engine is new but tends to increase oil consumption as these rockets grow older. Most people will run a 10W40, 15W40 or even a 20W50 .



Attached is a photo of my R2 before I put the Racing Beat catback on it.



David Canitz

Tech Services Manager

Royal Purple Ltd

281-354-8600 x202

281-354-7335 fax

713-725-7207 cell


-----Original Message-----

Zebb

LOL! This is SO typical! What have my number of posts on THIS or ANY forum to do with my knowledge?! The world is a little bit bigger than this forum, dident you know that?

Kento

Sure, because as I stated before, in an instance where the company feels that a situation like this could happen and cost them warranty claims, it's a hell of a lot easier for them to recommend against it than to actually do clinical trials and determine that it is indeed the cause.
They also recommend against modifying any part of the car, but that's definitely not enough for me to research ways to improve the performance and reliability of the car...
You need to do some research on internal combustion engines and engine oil. A lot of research.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

There is a huge difference between the FD and FC/RX-8, etc. Turbo.

Carbon buildup is nearly a non-issue with FDs. The engine just runs too damned hot. If this thread belongs anywhere, it belongs in Rotary Performance forum, not 3rd Gen.

Dave

Zebb

Interesting.

I agree that syntetics are good for turbos, bearings etc, but it should not be used for apex lubrication.

Zebb

I dont understand. If Mazda recommend to use minerals instead, and the problem disappears, what more evidence is there? Can you explain that?

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

You've already stated you don't know what your talking about, and yet you push the issue with senior members who know their ****? Its been discussed MANY times, you want the answer? GO FIND IT. I remember someone talking in another thread about how synthetic formula's have changed since those recomendations were first released. So the synthetic fluids we use today are not the same as the synthetic fluids used in the past and do not have the same effects.

like a few have said already, go do your own research and stop busting other peoples ***** for something you have no clue about yourself.