Toadman

We all know that the OEM spoilers rear wings provide little to no aerodynamic downforce, but with an adjustable GT wing or spoiler, at what speed and angle of attack does it actually provide down-force and drag? Is it 80mph where angular adjustments can provide extra grip? It seems the larger the wing surface area is, the sooner its effects can be felt (Look at Outlaw sprint cars).

What I’m trying to say is….what is the optimum angle at the lowest speed where the effects of an aerodynamic wing improve handling and grip without causing extra drag, and what is the overall best setting for street/highway use? Or is it really impossible to get some functionality out of these aero devices unless you're on the track?

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

IMO you don't need a wing unless you race I think most people get them strictly for looks. Most of the large aftermarket wings would adversely affect handling at higher speeds.

Toadman

For the looks we can all agree on, and I can see where you would need some front down-force to prevent it from getting light with a rear wing at very high speeds. Ever put your hand out the window at 80-90mph?

94touring

Wings don't do a damn thing untill you are at very high speeds, somewhere around 150+. Unless you plan on racing at those speeds I wouldn't worry about it.

Lost Time

Really? Then why don't Stock Car crews just take them off at the short-tracks when they don't ever corner over 90mph???

I wonder if anyone is going to reply to this post who knows what they are talking about. It's a good question.

BrianK

well, if it's generating downforce, it's also generating drag, so the combination of added downforce without added drag doesn't exist.

secondly, the wing adds *rear* downforce, therefore it will help oversteer; some suspension tuning will do the same thing (especially at highway speeds), hell, you can change tire pressures to help with that if you really think it's necessary.

What I'm getting at is that a wing will do you no good on the highway for anything other than reducing your gas milage.

rynberg

Toadman, the problem is the angle would vary for each individual wing and your desired characteristics. BTW, how do you know the OEM wing and spoiler do not add downforce. They lower the Cd from 0.29 to 0.31.

BTW, contrary to popular opinion, you can add downforce without raising the Cd. In fact, the new Infiniti G35 coming out has an aero package that reduces rear lift AND lowers the Cd from 0.27 to 0.26!

Johnny

the gt wings....shows the laptime improvements on a race course...there is no doubt about it...it can be seconds per lap...which is HUGE...

maxpesce

The OEM spoiler adds downforce at the front and hardly affects Drag
the OEM wing adds loads of drag and reduces Lift slightly (see the 200mph fd thread) the wing is mostly responsible for RAISING the Cd from 0.29 to 0.31. A properly shaped wing can be effective a speeds as low as 20mph BUT a wing that works at low speed will just creat loads of drag at high speed. Look at the diff between speedway wings and road race wings on CART cars.

Neo

iTrader: (4)

As somebody else has posted, you can't have downforce and no drag added on. In a perfect world this would be ideal but unfortunately.....

The OEM "wings" help reduce lift at elevated speeds. You can actually feel the difference if you get to ride in a base RX-7 with no wings and ones with wings. The wings are effective as low as 70km/h I believe.....

Which means, at the speeds that we travel here in Ontario, having wings is very effective in keeping the car on the ground. We usually cruise at about 140km/h up here. With the "fast" lane occasionally reaching speeds as high as 180km/h. And that's with a normal Accord or Camry! Little do these people know that at those speeds their cars are basically floating on a cusion of air and if anything "jumps" in front of them there's no way their going to have brakes because their tires are basically not on the ground.

The 99 spec front lip is a bit more effective than the previous lip. And having a 99 spec rear wing would be beneficial I personally think having the previous OEM rear wing is enough. I hate it when they start to put those "rice" parts on cars.

I wouldn't be so quick to point out that our OEM wings don't help reduce aero lift.....

Later,

Toadman

Agreed, and I know we are really splitting hairs here for closed-course racing. And I'm not smacking on the OEM rear wing in the least, although the surface area is smaller, rounded and there is no upturned lip or adjustability to speak of. Just looking for a balance where functionality may come into play at highway speeds for those considering an adjustable wing, and I've never seen a post addressing this with the FD and the velocity it can achieve.

/me wonders if the Mitsu VR4 was truly functional, let alone 911

Any aerodynamics or open-wheel racing gurus?

sheaa

My driving school instructor at Lime Rock have the GTC wing on his FD. He re-adjusted his wing to the steepest angle hoping to get more downfoce on his rear so he can fly down, maxed out on the last turn going downhill to the main straight. Well, he came back after a couple of laps and he said the rear end bottom out in the turn. In his case, just a bit too much. I would say he is doing about 80 in the turn, so the wing definitely work even with moderate speed.

We also discussed about the effectiveness of the OEM wing. The trunk area creates a low pressure area sucking air from the roof as well as the side of the car. The way the wing angles actually smooths the air and creates downforce. Obviously not as direct as the GTC wing would.

Both wings works, with the GTC being more efficient. Personally I am more concern with aftermarket ones since I highly doubt they run through the wind tunnel and test it like Mazda did.

By the way, there was a local accident with a riced out Integra with the shogun wing pulling over 120mph, and the darn wing pull the whole hatch out....I guess he's making up force instead of down.

94touring

Lost time,

There is a huge difference between the design of stock cars in comparison to the style wing that is being discussed in this topic. In order to take advantage fully of a gt style wing you must be going at high rates of speed. Wings for the street are purely for looks and are never needed for any kind of downforce/drag purposes, and if they do make a difference it is so slight you will never notice, just ask any serious racer. I say forget the gt-style wing and put some suspension on the car.

djantlive

Aerodynamics start to affect the general dynamics of the car at 45 mph. At 70+ mph, the effect can really make a difference. My friend that used to build solar car told me this. As you know, solar car has to be really aerodynamic and efficient.

A rear SPOILER can help to channel the wind flow and minimize turbulance. This can reduce your Cd. A rear WING adds lots of downforce (a couple hundred lbs at 70 mph). It also makes the car less aerodynamic. The front spoiler increase your Cd bc it adds frontal cross section area. However, the front spoiler reduces the wind under the car which makes the car more stable at high speed.

No it does not need 150 mph to make downforce. If that's true, all Indy car racing on street circuit don't need wings then.

94touring

I never said the car had to go 150 to make downforce. Yes they might make some drag and downforce at 45mph, but they are not efficient and serve no purpose what so ever.