LUPE

I'm talking 600 plus to the ground. Is this possible with the S5 TII engine with a 3rd gen rear iron ? Of course porting will be done too.......

I'm debating whether to use a S5 TII engine or a 13B REW engine.

I have access to a TII engine for a great price so I'm leaning more towards that.

Thanks.

iceblue

Depends the S5 and FD shared the same rear iron. Some have the hardened rear and some have the hardened rear with triangular reinforcement same as FD. This option is a crap shoot but there. The housings are the same outside of spark plug casting. So is the motor any less potential prone? No I do not feel it is. If you have any concern of if none I still suggest the use of cryogenic treatments of the motor with studs.

LUPE

So, which engine is prone to breaking rear irons? Is it the S4 TII ? I thought the S5 TII had the same problem.

The engine that I have access to has already had the rear iron replaced with a FD rear iron. Kevin Landers apparently did the rebuild.

Thanks.

Comitatus

iTrader: (7)

All of the S4' TII's and earlier versions of the S5 TII's have the thinner casting version of the rear plate. Some later S5's have the thicker plates. If you look between the inspection cover and the oil filter pedestal there will be an imprint on the casting of either an "A" or "B", with "B" being the later run using the thicker dowel land. It is a visible difference as well.

iceblue

Yes the S4. In the end it all points to detonation and pore tuning. Running studs great enhances the amount of lateral torsion the motor can withstand before flexing the plates. However the pinging seen from early explosion is thousands of lbs of force far greater then just the power output torsion.

LUPE

So, that rear iron is the only weak point of that engine? My combination consists of straight alcohol so detonation should be non-exsistant.

johnrxt2

eric ill let u know in feb about how much an s5 block will handle.

iceblue

The rotors are stronger then FD but weaker then S4.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

LOL..

Well, I am going for 600 once the new turbo comes in. I got to 490 but thats all the current turbo had left in it.

Rat

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I think those numbers are TOTALLY acheiveable on a series 5 block, especially if you're not going have ANY fuel aside from alcohol...

Just boost it to the roof!

johnrxt2

Eric, from talking to many engine builders about my set up and even running a small shot of nitrous, none of them said it cant be done on s5 block. I did have my rotors race clearanced, thanks to atkins DAN,. u should be fine

LUPE

Alright, I'll buy this S5 block and give it a LUPE rebuild. Should be fun boosting the world at it.

FrankV702

iTrader: (14)

Nice! let me know how that turns out Lupe. Im aiming for anything over 500rwhp on my s5.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Want to make it a race to 600?...

Anyways, good luck!

LUPE

I've already done it......... It's nothing new to me

NOPR

why hasnt anyone mentioned that the FD ports and TII ports are COMPLETELY different? the FD ports angle upwards and are in a different spot on the outside of the iron. also, the TII manifold wont work with an FD rear plate.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I meant on the S5 motor, I am well aware you did it on a different motor! I cant wait to see how hard my FC is to control at 600... 500 is bad enough.

iceblue

Because what you believe is not so.
The P ports on the s5 are actually 10degrees earlier opening and 1mm wider then the FD P port. The secondary FD port is only 10deg earlier opening then the S5.

And on his engine build going for 600+whp do you think the stock ports are going to be used? The OEM ports mater about as much as a turd in a punch bowel to him.

drago86

The oil system is much better on the FD. Better pump, (which can't be adapted unless you use the REW front iron), and much better bearings and clearences.

johnrxt2

just do a oil pressure mod (aaoron cake.)

NOPR

what do you mean by p ports? to me that means peripheral ports, so im sort of confused by what you mean. im referring to secondary ports, like the ones on the rear housing. what im saying is that they are entirely different on a TII engine that on an FD engine, and they cant be port matched the same. the FD ports are higher (on the outside of the engine) and angle downwards, while the FC ports go straight across. they dont line up at all (again, on the outside of the engine). So, if you run and FD rear iron on an otherwise S5 TII engine, you can use neither the FD manifold nor the TII manifold. this is my point.

papiogxl

iTrader: (6)

I believe he is referring to primary ports

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Well, nothing against you, but the FD plates and FC plates are completely different. The rear dowel size is also completely different. The FD is much larger, and is extra fat all around it. The FC S5 is all the same, and has a little 45 degree cast piece to strengthen it. The S4 is the worst, and is the thinnest. The ports themselves are very close, however what NOPR was trying to say is that the runners are completely different! The FD has slightly larger, and angled runners, making the FC intake not work at all. The FD front plate also has a more beefy dowel pin reinforcement. So hands down a FD engine is a much stronger block than any FC engine ever produced.

iceblue

No offense sorry but that is incorrect. The dowels are identical to all 13b engines. The s5 rear iron has the same larger runner as the s5 front. Some s5 rears had identical castings to s4, some had the same size casting with a triangular reinforcement from the dowel to the oil filter pedestal, some s5's even had a much larger casting (same as the fd casting) plus the reinforcement.

As far as the runners ehh port them some.

NOPR

hes not talking about the dowel pin itself, but rather the cast reinforcement around the dowel pins. the FD's have more reinforcement on both the front and rear dowel pin than any FC engine.

right, no one is debating that. the S5 front and rear secondary runners are the same, but the FD runners are totally different.

I know there are casting differences through the years, and i know theres a lot of confusion as far was which plates came on which engines and what not. add in rebuilds and remans and all that and it can get downright confusing. but as far as i know and have seen, all s4 engines and all 6 port engines have the weak rear dowl pin casting. all s5 TII engines have the stronger one, and the FD engines have an even beefier front and rear casting. there are exceptions as I have seen S5 6 port engines with the beefy S5 TII rear dowel pin casting, but for the most part those are how they are. also, as far as i've seen, no S5 TII engine has the strong FD dowel pin casting.

unfortunately the runners cant be ported to matched due to the angle of the FD runners. Also, I believe the bolt pattern for the LIM is also different between S5 TII and FD, so even if the runners could be port matched, no manifold would fit it.