P'cola FD

Alright, I have a saga going on in the 3rd gen section right now with my car bogging down losing power and running like poo. I've checked all sorts of things, searched the forum, called the shops, but still have a gimp car. I'm going to give the person who finds my problem $100. If you want to know what I've done here is the thread https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=1
I just hooked up a friends PFC and wrote down all of the sensor readings. I posted this on the last page of the original thread

Ok, I hooked up a friend's Power FC and have all the readings. Only problem is I'm not quite sure what they all mean. Maybe I can get some help. Here is a readout of the whole etc. screen. "G" stands for when the engine was running properly, and "B" stands for when the engine was bogging. The first reading is with the key on and the engine off. The second reading is with the the engine idling properly, and the third reading is with the engine idling all gimped up. I have NTP and NTR written for one reading, I'm not sure which is right. For the switches: "o" is the open circle(off I presume) and "*" is the filled in circle(on I presume).

Sensor___KeyOn_G__EngineIdling_G__EngineIdling_B
PIM______2.65______1.01____________2.34
VTA1______.41_______.41_____________.40
VTA2 _____.88________.89_____________.87
VMOP____1.05_______1.17____________1.26
WTRT_____.31________.48_____________.49
AIRT______.86________.94_____________.91
FUEL_____1.64_______2.75____________3.08
O2S______.07________.82_____________.05
STR_______o_________o_______________o
A/C_______o_________o_______________o
PWS______o_________o_______________o
NTR(NTP)__o_________*_______________*
CLT______o_________o_______________o
STP______o_________o_______________o
CAT______*_________o_______________o
ELD______*_________o_______________o
HWL______*_________o_______________o
FPD______o_________*_______________*
FPR______*_________o_______________o
APR______o_________*_______________*
PAC______*_________o_______________o
CCN______*_________*_______________*
TCN______o_________o_______________o
PRC______*_________o_______________o

The O2 sensor was jumping all over, but That is not the problem, because it does the same thing in open loop mode.

The knock sensor is fine. It was reading 20 at idle and 66 while reving.

While the engine was bogging down at idle we looked at the timing, and it was going crazy. It was bouncing from 6/-4 to 3/-7 to 1/-9 at times it would be at -5/-20

but when it lifted the idle up some it was 14/17

and at one point -25/-25

There was also a point when the idle was bouncing up and down and the injector duty cycle would drop to 0%
But while driving it was around 50% with moderate throttle.

Another important note is that when the idle was bogging and bouncing, the APR and PAC switches were going on and off repeatedly.

I'm going to do a search for what all this means, but does anyone have any ideas as to what this could mean?
I talked w/ someone at Tripoint yesterday, and he said that it could still be a bad leading coil even if it tested ok.
Much thanks to Rodney McFarlin for the PFC and help.
Any other help is very welcome.

I know this is asking a lot, but I don't know what's normal/abnormal. Any help is much appreciated, and if you can find my problem you will get paid.

SARX7

Try adjusting your TPS.

I had a rough idle problem with my car and I adjusted the TPS values to be right at the peak of their range. this helped a great deal and also made throttle tip in much smoother.

With the engine off VTA2 should be in the 0.75 to 1.25 range, I adjusted mine right up to the 1.24-1.25 range.

And VTA1 should be in the 0.1 to 0.7 range. Again I adjusted mine to .6-.7 range.


Also with the engine off and throttle fully open VTA2 shoule be in the 4.8 to 5.0 range and VTA1 should be in the 4.2 to 4.6 range.


O2 and ignition timing will bounce around at idle with O2 feedback and Idle IGN control turned on. Turn these off to get the numbers right out of your maps. The computer should be able to handle these two functions, so I wouldn't look at turning these two off as a solution.

Do you still have an air pump?

P'cola FD

Theairpump is still in there, but I have a midpipe.

SARX7

double post

SARX7

Air pump was a shot in the dark.
I've read more of your other thread, and if you have a bunch of flames shooting from the exhaust at idle that points more to ignition. If the ignition is excesifly retarded then you would get lots of little flames. I don't know if the same holds true for excessive advance.

Does your exhaust glow red (white) hot near the turbos?
If you had an EGT this would be really easy to diagnose.

Definately do the TPS adjustment though. Your #'s are at the low end of the adjustment range. This will probably help a bit too, if not solve the prob.

P'cola FD

I'll do that tonight. Problem is that the PFC is back in my friends car. I'll do it the old fashioned way, I suppose.
What part of my exhaust are you talking about(probably DP)? I'll try to look at it after school. I'm also going to pull the plugs hoping for some sign of anything.
I really appreciate your help SARX7. Thanks

SARX7

Well it can be changed with a multimeter too.

Here is a link to some info on the proccess.
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/TPS_adjustment.html

SARX7

Ya know, try to get your friends PFC and plug it back in.
Turn off Idle IGN control and see if the IGN retards itself and the car starts sputtering. The PFC doesn't use the knock sensor so that eliminates one p.o.f.

Also if your PAC and Air Pump relays are triggering off and on like you say then that also points to ignition problems.

Both are turned off at 3000 rpms (at least the air pump is) so if the ECU thinks it is running at 3000 RPMs (by getting a faulty reading from the ignition) then it would cut the air pump off.

This would lead me to belive the timing being reported to the ECU is incorrect.
Try the PFC test above and see what the ignition readings are. You may also want to hook up a voltometer to the coils ans watch the signals they are sending.

P'cola FD

I'll see if he will let me use it again. BTW, what would turning off ign control do to a normal car? What will the results mean if the car boggs, or if it doesn't?
I never even thought to check the voltage on the coils. Thanks. How much much are they supposed to be pushing?

SPOautos

When you did the vacume hose job did you undo any of the connectors for the sylenoids? If so, is it out of the question that you crossed any of the connectors up? What about the vacume lines themselves? Is your airpump pluged or unpluged, if its unplugged try pluggin it in and see if something happends. I dont know why but some people experience terrible problems when they unplug the airpump.

It kinda sounds like your having PAC problems (port air control).

KZ1 had similar sounding problems with his car when he undid the airpump. He finally just pulled the manifold and pulled all the PAC junk out and blocked it off.

Hope it helps, I'll try to think of something else.
STEPHEN

richjackson7

somthing is broken in the manifold.