Study Finds Flaws In California Smog Check System
02-04-10, 09:09 PM
#1
Study Finds Flaws In California Smog Check System
http://cbs5.com/local/smog.check.study.2.1468806.html
I dont like the sound of this...
SACRAMENTO (CBS 5) ―
Many California vehicles failed random roadside tests after passing state smog certification tests.
CBS
It's California's dirty little secret - some of the worst polluters on the road routinely passing smog tests when they should be failing.
CBS 5 has learned that three years ago California's Air Resources Board and Bureau of Automotive Repair conducted a large-scale review of the smog check system, yet the results still have not been made public.
Thousands of cars, 1995 and older were randomly pulled off the road in Southern California and smog checked with state equipotent set up at the roadside. Drivers were assured they would not be penalized if their cars failed the roadside test.
Although the state still has not issued its report on the roadside test, Tom Cackette, Chief Deputy Executive Officer of the Air Resources Board, agreed to talk about some aspects of the study with CBS 5.
According to Cackette, there appears to be widespread fraud in the repair process. He said that about half the cars that needed and supposedly received repairs in order to get their smog certificates, failed the roadside test.
"The only conclusion we can reach is that those cars were not repaired at all, suggesting there was some fraud going on, or they were not repaired correctly," Cackette said.
According to Cackette, cars that had supposedly been repaired and received smog certifications two months prior to the roadside test had a 45% failure rate.
Cars that had been repaired and smog certified one year prior to the roadside test had a 50% failure rate.
Cars that had been repaired and smog certified 22 months prior to the roadside test had a 53% failure rate.
Cackette also said that about one-fifth of the older cars that did not need repairs to get their smog certificates also failed the roadside test.
According to Cackette, cars that got their smog certificates within two months of the roadside check had a 17% failure rate in the roadside test.
Cars that got their smog certificates within one year of the roadside check had a 22% failure rate in the roadside test. Cars that got their smog certificates within 22 months of the roadside check had a 25% failure rate in the roadside test.
Cackette and others familiar with the smog check system said unscrupulous smog test stations use tricks to get dirty cars to pass. Among them, is something called "Clean for a Day."
"You get the car really, really hot, run it hard, and that you put on the smog check, and it's got a better chance of passing," said Cackette.
Another trick is known as "Clean Piping." That's when smog test operators place a probe into a different car's tailpipe that they know will pass.
But, don't just blame the testers. Aaron Sherman owns a test-only station in Los Gatos. He said he's occasionally approached by car owners asking him to cheat.
"I've had a couple people come by saying that they have a dirty car and would I work with them," Sherman said. He said he always refuses.
So, why hasn't the study been released to the public?
"My understanding is that the report has been bottled up for a long time in the governor's office, probably because it does not cast the smog check system in a favorable light," said Bill Magavern of the Sierra Club.
CBS 5 asked Tom Cackette of the Air Resources Board for a look at the full report. He refused, saying it was still being worked on.
"We want to lay out some of the solutions first," said Cackette.
Many California vehicles failed random roadside tests after passing state smog certification tests.
CBS
It's California's dirty little secret - some of the worst polluters on the road routinely passing smog tests when they should be failing.
CBS 5 has learned that three years ago California's Air Resources Board and Bureau of Automotive Repair conducted a large-scale review of the smog check system, yet the results still have not been made public.
Thousands of cars, 1995 and older were randomly pulled off the road in Southern California and smog checked with state equipotent set up at the roadside. Drivers were assured they would not be penalized if their cars failed the roadside test.
Although the state still has not issued its report on the roadside test, Tom Cackette, Chief Deputy Executive Officer of the Air Resources Board, agreed to talk about some aspects of the study with CBS 5.
According to Cackette, there appears to be widespread fraud in the repair process. He said that about half the cars that needed and supposedly received repairs in order to get their smog certificates, failed the roadside test.
"The only conclusion we can reach is that those cars were not repaired at all, suggesting there was some fraud going on, or they were not repaired correctly," Cackette said.
According to Cackette, cars that had supposedly been repaired and received smog certifications two months prior to the roadside test had a 45% failure rate.
Cars that had been repaired and smog certified one year prior to the roadside test had a 50% failure rate.
Cars that had been repaired and smog certified 22 months prior to the roadside test had a 53% failure rate.
Cackette also said that about one-fifth of the older cars that did not need repairs to get their smog certificates also failed the roadside test.
According to Cackette, cars that got their smog certificates within two months of the roadside check had a 17% failure rate in the roadside test.
Cars that got their smog certificates within one year of the roadside check had a 22% failure rate in the roadside test. Cars that got their smog certificates within 22 months of the roadside check had a 25% failure rate in the roadside test.
Cackette and others familiar with the smog check system said unscrupulous smog test stations use tricks to get dirty cars to pass. Among them, is something called "Clean for a Day."
"You get the car really, really hot, run it hard, and that you put on the smog check, and it's got a better chance of passing," said Cackette.
Another trick is known as "Clean Piping." That's when smog test operators place a probe into a different car's tailpipe that they know will pass.
But, don't just blame the testers. Aaron Sherman owns a test-only station in Los Gatos. He said he's occasionally approached by car owners asking him to cheat.
"I've had a couple people come by saying that they have a dirty car and would I work with them," Sherman said. He said he always refuses.
So, why hasn't the study been released to the public?
"My understanding is that the report has been bottled up for a long time in the governor's office, probably because it does not cast the smog check system in a favorable light," said Bill Magavern of the Sierra Club.
CBS 5 asked Tom Cackette of the Air Resources Board for a look at the full report. He refused, saying it was still being worked on.
"We want to lay out some of the solutions first," said Cackette.
I dont like the sound of this...
02-04-10, 09:33 PM
#2
not like they can do **** about it. why do you think it's still sitting on their desk?
the state cant afford to run it's own stations and the citizens can't afford to pay an inflated rate by the state.
1 in 5 people are unemployed in this county.
it's a dumb system anyways, the clean burning new cars still far outweigh the ones they are focusing on in the review but they don't focus on the figures of clean vs failing.
the state cant afford to run it's own stations and the citizens can't afford to pay an inflated rate by the state.
1 in 5 people are unemployed in this county.
it's a dumb system anyways, the clean burning new cars still far outweigh the ones they are focusing on in the review but they don't focus on the figures of clean vs failing.
02-05-10, 11:04 AM
#4
Who gives a flying **** if people cheat the tests. They only have the most restrictive tests in the country and are trying to kill old car owners and convince us to get a ****** prius. This state is run by tree huggers that don't know how to actually protect the environment. Funny isn't it. If requiring lifetime testing for 1976 and newer vehicles isnt just about money and trying to get rid of old vehicles, I don't know what is. How many 1978 pickups do you see?
02-05-10, 11:48 AM
#5
^^^unfortunately, albeit the most likely cause, the smog system works, well. look at the air in 1980 la and sf VS now, its uncomparable. the air is 16x more clean in those major metropolitan areas, does the previous 30 year window that is now stuck at 1975 suck? yes, they stopped at 1975 because that was the first year that cats were mandated in the US, and there is no way in hell that california or any state that follows the emissions standard going to allow someone to remove a cat. sorry, its the truth. as much as i hate it, and as much as i wanted my 77 datsun Z to be exempt, it will never be.
of course they are never going to announce that ****, because it will make the emissions testing look bad and unreliable. unfortunately, california has its residents choked in fear about failing emissions and all the **** that goes with it.
now, is it public knowledge that the bar is going after shops so increadably hard and issuing citations where they normally wouldent, **** ya, are they doing it to stop black market smogs, **** ya, are they doing the public as a whole good, i think so.
so, as much as i hate ALL THE BULLSHIT that the bar does, it has prolonged the life expectancy in those major metropolitan areas by at least 5-10 years.
i drive a rotary, and mine isnt street legal, my datsun i had to do some stuff to in able to make it smog exempt to make way for the rb26dett, but i got my smog license. better to be on the giving end of the stick then the short end.
i always sorta feel like a traitor doing that, but oh well, i know how to sidestep smog laws and still mod a car to make it fast and reliable
Lloyd
of course they are never going to announce that ****, because it will make the emissions testing look bad and unreliable. unfortunately, california has its residents choked in fear about failing emissions and all the **** that goes with it.
now, is it public knowledge that the bar is going after shops so increadably hard and issuing citations where they normally wouldent, **** ya, are they doing it to stop black market smogs, **** ya, are they doing the public as a whole good, i think so.
so, as much as i hate ALL THE BULLSHIT that the bar does, it has prolonged the life expectancy in those major metropolitan areas by at least 5-10 years.
i drive a rotary, and mine isnt street legal, my datsun i had to do some stuff to in able to make it smog exempt to make way for the rb26dett, but i got my smog license. better to be on the giving end of the stick then the short end.
i always sorta feel like a traitor doing that, but oh well, i know how to sidestep smog laws and still mod a car to make it fast and reliable
Lloyd
02-05-10, 09:46 PM
#7
s4 Pride
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 3,350
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
^^^unfortunately, albeit the most likely cause, the smog system works, well. look at the air in 1980 la and sf VS now, its uncomparable. the air is 16x more clean in those major metropolitan areas, does the previous 30 year window that is now stuck at 1975 suck? yes, they stopped at 1975 because that was the first year that cats were mandated in the US, and there is no way in hell that california or any state that follows the emissions standard going to allow someone to remove a cat. sorry, its the truth. as much as i hate it, and as much as i wanted my 77 datsun Z to be exempt, it will never be.
of course they are never going to announce that ****, because it will make the emissions testing look bad and unreliable. unfortunately, california has its residents choked in fear about failing emissions and all the **** that goes with it.
now, is it public knowledge that the bar is going after shops so increadably hard and issuing citations where they normally wouldent, **** ya, are they doing it to stop black market smogs, **** ya, are they doing the public as a whole good, i think so.
so, as much as i hate ALL THE BULLSHIT that the bar does, it has prolonged the life expectancy in those major metropolitan areas by at least 5-10 years.
i drive a rotary, and mine isnt street legal, my datsun i had to do some stuff to in able to make it smog exempt to make way for the rb26dett, but i got my smog license. better to be on the giving end of the stick then the short end.
i always sorta feel like a traitor doing that, but oh well, i know how to sidestep smog laws and still mod a car to make it fast and reliable
Lloyd
of course they are never going to announce that ****, because it will make the emissions testing look bad and unreliable. unfortunately, california has its residents choked in fear about failing emissions and all the **** that goes with it.
now, is it public knowledge that the bar is going after shops so increadably hard and issuing citations where they normally wouldent, **** ya, are they doing it to stop black market smogs, **** ya, are they doing the public as a whole good, i think so.
so, as much as i hate ALL THE BULLSHIT that the bar does, it has prolonged the life expectancy in those major metropolitan areas by at least 5-10 years.
i drive a rotary, and mine isnt street legal, my datsun i had to do some stuff to in able to make it smog exempt to make way for the rb26dett, but i got my smog license. better to be on the giving end of the stick then the short end.
i always sorta feel like a traitor doing that, but oh well, i know how to sidestep smog laws and still mod a car to make it fast and reliable
Lloyd
The main regulations that cleaned up the air around LA and SF since the 1970's like you mentioned were not the ones placed upon cars but rather the ones placed on industry. There are huge restrictions on exactly what can come out of a smokestack now days and the emissions regulations of the private industries is what really cleaned up CA's air quality. Yes the cars did play a small role in that, but its minute compared to the cleaning of industrial emissions.
Trending Topics
02-05-10, 11:41 PM
#8
^ I agree... car's in general don't have much of an effect on our environment. Smog ****'s suck.. and like Lloyd I am one of them haha.
Oh and Lloyd 1975 was not the first year cats were mandated in the US. They stopped the rolling exemption primarily due to statistics that showed they could prevent "5.7 tons of emissions per day by 2010, and over 12 tons/day by 2015." (Assembly Bill 2683) I am sure you have smogged an old late 70's truck that didn't have any cats. I know I have; and honestly if they are running correctly their emissions typically aren't bad at all.
Oh and Lloyd 1975 was not the first year cats were mandated in the US. They stopped the rolling exemption primarily due to statistics that showed they could prevent "5.7 tons of emissions per day by 2010, and over 12 tons/day by 2015." (Assembly Bill 2683) I am sure you have smogged an old late 70's truck that didn't have any cats. I know I have; and honestly if they are running correctly their emissions typically aren't bad at all.
02-06-10, 12:27 AM
#9
and now you can hardly find 2 stroke motorcycles due to how california has labeled them as polluters. when they started issuing red stickers for dirt bikes i WTFed, as did just about anyone who road offroad. have they started mandating cats on street bikes yet? because you know they will be next.
a new statistic i would love to see is how many of those older cars are getting retired every year? the smog you see in the air now IS still lingering from days long past, not just from the "now".
a new statistic i would love to see is how many of those older cars are getting retired every year? the smog you see in the air now IS still lingering from days long past, not just from the "now".
02-06-10, 02:26 AM
#10
s4 Pride
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 3,350
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
and now you can hardly find 2 stroke motorcycles due to how california has labeled them as polluters. when they started issuing red stickers for dirt bikes i WTFed, as did just about anyone who road offroad. have they started mandating cats on street bikes yet? because you know they will be next.
a new statistic i would love to see is how many of those older cars are getting retired every year? the smog you see in the air now IS still lingering from days long past, not just from the "now".
a new statistic i would love to see is how many of those older cars are getting retired every year? the smog you see in the air now IS still lingering from days long past, not just from the "now".
I thought street bikes did have to pass some sort of smog test from the factory and were required to have catalytic converters. The difference with bikes is that so many guys take the cats off because they are not smog tested in CA and police know even less about bikes than they do cars.
02-06-10, 02:41 AM
#11
Smog test in California have been getting tougher and each year it seems they add more to it. I recalled I was charged more for an evap test mandatory by the state for cars 95 and below. Then I'm talking to my smog tech and they said now they have to smog diesels now, which they didn't have to back then.
02-06-10, 12:13 PM
#15
don't get me started on this ****... and why do newer cars impact the environment or tear up roads more that they need to be charged more for registration? answer is, they don't and they are trying to make you pay 100% up front in case the car gets totalled the next day.
02-06-10, 02:13 PM
#16
^ I agree... car's in general don't have much of an effect on our environment. Smog ****'s suck.. and like Lloyd I am one of them haha.
Oh and Lloyd 1975 was not the first year cats were mandated in the US. They stopped the rolling exemption primarily due to statistics that showed they could prevent "5.7 tons of emissions per day by 2010, and over 12 tons/day by 2015." (Assembly Bill 2683) I am sure you have smogged an old late 70's truck that didn't have any cats. I know I have; and honestly if they are running correctly their emissions typically aren't bad at all.
Oh and Lloyd 1975 was not the first year cats were mandated in the US. They stopped the rolling exemption primarily due to statistics that showed they could prevent "5.7 tons of emissions per day by 2010, and over 12 tons/day by 2015." (Assembly Bill 2683) I am sure you have smogged an old late 70's truck that didn't have any cats. I know I have; and honestly if they are running correctly their emissions typically aren't bad at all.
Yeah my 84 Chevy has no cat and it passed fine, I just had to blow out the carbon on the highway and get the engine hot. Im just pissed because my GS is off the map and it costs me way too much money to comply with the Socialist Republic of California. BTW Mike...putting a good cat on to smog the GS, I think it may get it down to 200? Right now it is Non-op. Also using seafoam in it to clean it a bit, and doing the steam trick.
02-06-10, 05:24 PM
#17
I was talking to my smog tech about how things have changed and it use to be that new cars would have to be smogged after 4 years. Then California bumped the smog check interval for new cars to 6 years. By that time most cars are already out of their warranty for repairs. More money being forced out of consumer pockets due to smog checks to tell us we need repairs to just stay on the road.
02-06-10, 09:35 PM
#18
its really, at its core, the state milking money out of people. and yes, i forgot about the cut on industrial emissions and everything else. and the whole thing with 2 stroked was such horseshit. but, like i said, its the state wanting their money.
like everything, its about cash flow. i hate it, its that way with every single state, every single country, anywhere there is more than 2 people, it will be that way. lets call it greed, oh wait, thats what its called.
Lloyd
like everything, its about cash flow. i hate it, its that way with every single state, every single country, anywhere there is more than 2 people, it will be that way. lets call it greed, oh wait, thats what its called.
Lloyd
02-06-10, 09:44 PM
#19
s4 Pride
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 3,350
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
its really, at its core, the state milking money out of people. and yes, i forgot about the cut on industrial emissions and everything else. and the whole thing with 2 stroked was such horseshit. but, like i said, its the state wanting their money.
like everything, its about cash flow. i hate it, its that way with every single state, every single country, anywhere there is more than 2 people, it will be that way. lets call it greed, oh wait, thats what its called.
Lloyd
like everything, its about cash flow. i hate it, its that way with every single state, every single country, anywhere there is more than 2 people, it will be that way. lets call it greed, oh wait, thats what its called.
Lloyd
02-07-10, 02:21 AM
#20
KM48 Burnout
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2010. Diesel law now applies to 1998+ Diesels under 8,501 pounds. I like how they apply it by weight. If it's over that weight amount, you get whacked anyways with gross vehicle weight fees for damaging roads. One more smog loophole closed up. This state seriously sucks.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/ge...vw-trucks.html
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...ns/ab1488.html
diesel-powered vehicles manufactured after the 1997 model-year that have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 8,501 pounds in the biennial smog check program
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...ns/ab1488.html
02-07-10, 03:21 AM
#21
yup yup, and if that proves to work (which it will fail horribly), they are on to motorcycles.......makes 0 sense to me, i have never seen even an old harley make almost any emissions, specially the new street bikes, 4 cylinder 600cc fuel injected getting 60 miles a gallon even at WOT........i mean wtf?
oh oh oh, and they are talking about then THEN mandating smog on watercrafts................so what youre ******* telling me is that i have to ******* tow my ******* boat to a ******* smog station so some ******* retarded can ******* tell me whether or not i can ******* legally run my ******* boat on the ******* water? are you ******* kidding me?
i ******* hate this state, ****
Lloyd
oh oh oh, and they are talking about then THEN mandating smog on watercrafts................so what youre ******* telling me is that i have to ******* tow my ******* boat to a ******* smog station so some ******* retarded can ******* tell me whether or not i can ******* legally run my ******* boat on the ******* water? are you ******* kidding me?
i ******* hate this state, ****
Lloyd
02-08-10, 10:39 AM
#22
^ I agree... car's in general don't have much of an effect on our environment. Smog ****'s suck.. and like Lloyd I am one of them haha.
Oh and Lloyd 1975 was not the first year cats were mandated in the US. They stopped the rolling exemption primarily due to statistics that showed they could prevent "5.7 tons of emissions per day by 2010, and over 12 tons/day by 2015." (Assembly Bill 2683) I am sure you have smogged an old late 70's truck that didn't have any cats. I know I have; and honestly if they are running correctly their emissions typically aren't bad at all.
Oh and Lloyd 1975 was not the first year cats were mandated in the US. They stopped the rolling exemption primarily due to statistics that showed they could prevent "5.7 tons of emissions per day by 2010, and over 12 tons/day by 2015." (Assembly Bill 2683) I am sure you have smogged an old late 70's truck that didn't have any cats. I know I have; and honestly if they are running correctly their emissions typically aren't bad at all.
02-08-10, 11:11 AM
#23
yup yup, and if that proves to work (which it will fail horribly), they are on to motorcycles.......makes 0 sense to me, i have never seen even an old harley make almost any emissions, specially the new street bikes, 4 cylinder 600cc fuel injected getting 60 miles a gallon even at WOT........i mean wtf?
oh oh oh, and they are talking about then THEN mandating smog on watercrafts................so what youre ******* telling me is that i have to ******* tow my ******* boat to a ******* smog station so some ******* retarded can ******* tell me whether or not i can ******* legally run my ******* boat on the ******* water? are you ******* kidding me?
i ******* hate this state, ****
Lloyd
oh oh oh, and they are talking about then THEN mandating smog on watercrafts................so what youre ******* telling me is that i have to ******* tow my ******* boat to a ******* smog station so some ******* retarded can ******* tell me whether or not i can ******* legally run my ******* boat on the ******* water? are you ******* kidding me?
i ******* hate this state, ****
Lloyd
02-08-10, 01:43 PM
#24
Yeah my 84 Chevy has no cat and it passed fine, I just had to blow out the carbon on the highway and get the engine hot. Im just pissed because my GS is off the map and it costs me way too much money to comply with the Socialist Republic of California. BTW Mike...putting a good cat on to smog the GS, I think it may get it down to 200? Right now it is Non-op. Also using seafoam in it to clean it a bit, and doing the steam trick.
