iLikeEatPoo

iTrader: (6)

Prepaid legal.

bluesi

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the support guys. I'll be writing my TBD today and hopefully sending it out tomorrow.

My fine is $203, or $256 for traffic school. I'll drive by the faithful spot today after work to take a few pictures of the area too.

The cop was writing another poor bloke a ticket when he "pulled" me over. He wasn't on his bike, just standing on the road. I only realized he was pulling me over because he was screaming and waving his hands at me like a lunatic.

As I came out of the bend, he must have had a fraction of a second to see me and dance ... that'll be my case for is mis-judge of speed. I wasn't caught with a radar, laser or pacing. Just his "ëxpert" eyes!

Not too sure how much of that I should include in my written statement. Better calm myself down before writing

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

You know, I'm just realizing... it's been so long since I got a ticket, this whole TBD thing didn't even exist.

bluesi

iTrader: (1)

Haha!

I recall that as the cop was frantically waving and screaming at me, I could see that he was half running towards his bike and half reaching for his gun.

It was pretty comical as I could tell for a moment he wasn't sure if I would stop and if he should draw his gun, jump on his bike and give chase or something and was like trying to do it all. I guess he realized that I saw that too (and possibly the first driver that he was writing the ticket for who was still waiting for him) and got more pissed.

In any case, I don't think I overwhelmingly powerful stock honda fit could take on a motorcycle TM .... just a guesstimation

DJDINO

I sure did. It's obvious that you don't understand mine. I appreciate the info and your contribution to this thread. It will help everyone here. However, as I stated, 'How much is your time worth?” in my recent citation, I was clearly guilty. I just don't have time these days to contest an infraction in which I have the option to attend traffic school (online courses) for.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Who was this guy, Barney Fife? Why would he even consider drawing his gun?

That'd be a guaranteed trip to DeepShitsVille for him, drawing down on a moving car to effect a traffic stop... not to mention if he fired at an unarmed person in a vehicle that was not physically threatening him.

The whole concept of "clearly guilty" did just kind of get left out of the thread, didn't it?

bluesi

iTrader: (1)

Guilty or not (at least for my case) is subjective.

When the cop asked me if I knew what speed I was traveling at, I told him I did not know. I wasn't BS'ing him. I could probably guess roughly how fast I was going, but I wasn't staring at my speedo while I was being caught, so I could never be sure exactly how fast I was driving.

The cop clearly wasn't better off. He wasn't using a laser, radar nor was he pacing me. His citation to me was purely a guess. For all I know, if he had a different day that day, his estimate would have been different.

So was I guilty? I think technically we will never know. But I guess I'll find out soon enough after sending in my TBWD. I'm just afraid that the judge will try to get more guilties these days, seeing how the city is strap for cash.

Brismo7

iTrader: (2)

I still dont understand yours

I spent probably about a literal 15 minutes(spread out of the course of several months) fighting my ticket. I'm pretty sure i was doing about 90mph on the highway or somewhere in the mid-80mph. 100% guilty. I simply changed some wording around and printed it out. stapled it to my forms that they sent me. wrote: See attached. and dropped it off in my mail box.

And I also avoided traffic school and insurance premiums. Like i said, the only down side is having to pay the bail amount upfront. Hence the refund.

By you telling me you dont have enough time, to do this, doesnt make sense. I'm not trying to be confrontational, just making a point I guess.

I hope this info helps others out there.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Bluesi: Not to be contrary or anything, but just looking at what you've said so far:

If you were driving "spiritedly" through a 35-limit residential area... "spirited" to the degree that you didn't see a cop with enough time to slow down before he saw you... & to the point that you got the cop to jumping around and cussing at you, even though he already had another driver pulled over...

...then the odds are pretty good you were going well over 35, wouldn't you say?

Brismo7

iTrader: (2)

Whats the point? He got the ticket.

ilike2eatricers

regardless of guilt he should still try and protest it he could win by default even if he is guilty as sin

dkwasherexd

iTrader: (8)

This is perfect. You can win. He has no hard evidence. He was talking about how he can tell you were speeding to make you convinced and scared to accept the ticket and take defeat. Never admit defeat! When you take him on trial, you can ask the officer, how fast was I going, and do you have the radar print out. Just tell the judge Iwas not speeding. Did you tell the officer anything for him to jott down on notes, I hope you didnt. Never admit defeat if they dont have evidence. Trust. Been to court a few times. You can be lucky the cop wont show up. In court its all about evidence to back things up, but if the cop has no evidence just word of mouth, he cant convict you if you dont admit it. Good luck to you sir! First you will need to pay the bail, and you will see the judge to tell him your story. You can get the Public defender to get you an attorney for free as well. Then they will setup another court date, and thats when you and the officer explain to the judge. Remember never admit defeat, ask questions to the officer that he cannot answer withoutevidence. "How fast was I going,?" "How do you know I was going that speed cause I wasnt" "do you have the radar print outs?" The cop will not be able to answer. He cant say oh we can visually see him going 60. Judges dont follow that, usualy they will be on your side at that point!

If this however fails, then at least you tried. If you dont have money for the ticket, you can always do community service like I did. However, if the cop claims you were going 70or w./e absurd , you can always jott down the speed to lower the ticket cost. If you are going to admit defeat, just say you were going 43 or something. Say you were on a hurry to work, or late for a meeting. They will understand, and you will still have the most of the cop.

Fumanchu

Little info for the clueless in here...

Officers are legally able to estimate speed, especially a motor officer. Motor officers do nothing but write traffic tickets ALL day long. This is what they specialize in and have received hundreds of hours of training. Also, why would a officer not get paid to respond to the trial by declaration? It's job related and he will get paid fully or even overtime to respond.

Just some food for thought...good luck.

DJDINO

Brismo,

My point is, my philosophy in life is nut up and deal with it (if you are in the wrong). You have to pay to play. In this case, the original OP already stated that he was speeding. I have fought tickets in court in the past, when I felt that the officer was incorrect, and won. I did it in court because I wanted to face the Officer and see his face afterwards.

If some of you are the type who like to ‘beat the system’, that is all fine and dandy. However, I just find it amusing that someone would post on the forum about receiving an infraction, in which he admitted guilt, asking for help on how to beat a ticket.

Brismo7

iTrader: (2)

I'm under the impression that it works something like this:

An officer goes about his daily duties, writes some tickets and when he/she is wrapping up the day, they have to go to the station and do all their paper work. After their mandatory paper work is done, they then can respond to the Written declaration. Now, they can either dig up a speeding ticket that happened months ago and write a case for why the defendant is guilty and this with that. Try remembering 1 stop out of "x" amount. OR they can simply ignore it and go home. There is no REAL incentive to respond to the TBWD.

My first TBWD win stated that i had won because a "lack of response."

Maybe you can enlighten us a little on the subject and tell me how close I am, or if i'm way off.

**Further more, I've heard about officers that keep journals in their cars to write specifics about peticular stops, incase they try and take it to court.

My tip: Take the ticket, dont argue, keep your mouth shut, dont talk back. Make the ticket process as quick as possible by comply'ing. That way, it will be much harder for the officer to remember the details when it comes time to fight the ticket.

I'm going to remember "Soul ja Girl" on the subway a lot easier than the dude in the back who kept his mouth shut.

Brismo7

iTrader: (2)

Djdino,

I see your point.

bluesi

iTrader: (1)

Yes, odds are I was probably doing a little over 35mph, but I cannot confirm that either. Like I said, I wasn't staring at my speedo when this incident took place.

The cop was literally right after a bend, I would not have been able to see him until I clear the bend even if I was traveling under 35mph.

As for traffic cops being able to judge speeds accurately without radar, I do not disagree they can estimate to a certain degree of accuracy when the conditions are right. In my case:
1) Cop wasn't intentionally looking at traffic and therefore mentally ill prepared to make the judgment. (He was busy writing the other fellow a ticket. Book, pen in hand and all)
2) The roar wasn't straight. It was bending up hill to the right.
3) He caught my car with a side glance and immediately proceeded to do his stop dance on me.

I believe all form of speed judgment calls for a stable point of reference. No one can accurately tell speed just by looking at a moving object. Its always some form of comparison and reference. Hell even the dopler radar that the cops use bounces its radio wave off the ground as reference to a moving object.

If cops are allowed to easily win cases for visual speed judgment, won't it be a scary thing especially now when the city needs funding more than anything?

It happened to me, it could happen to you next. Your word against the cop's expert visual speed estimation. All he needs to do to give you a citation is think that you are going over the speed limit.

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TBWD+

bluesi

iTrader: (1)

Dear Djdino,

I commend your morals and I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. However since ur reply consist of implications that I may have made in my initial post, please allow me the opportunity to restate my intentions in this thread.

I did not admit to speeding. All I said was that I got a little carried away and was driving spiritedly. I did not admit to speeding. I could have been driving 34mph and spiritedly. Its a honda fit after all .... 34 mph is pretty fast. Well then you could say that if I was driving below the speed limit, there was no way a cop would have pulled you over. Well if that were true, we would not need judges or trials ... the cop is the law and the law is the cop right?

I did not write this thread to "asking for help on how to beat a ticket". I was simply asking those more experienced among us who have written trial by declaration statements on the basic do's and don't when writting one. The technical stuff ... I already had the intention of writing one when I started this thread. I'm no lawyer and like I said, this is my first time writing one.

I don't make alot of money and in these hard times, every cent I can save will help me out. So if spending some time writing a statement can potentially prevent me from losing a couple hundred bucks, then yes it is worth my time.

I said that I was driving in a residential area. Ok maybe I wasn't completely accurate. Its one of those roads that links the really small roads in front of landed houses together that ultimately link to a highway. It's not a road that kids play on the side of or anything like that. Maybe I should have said that in the beginning to earn some sympathy points with those among us that equate "residential" with get out and push ur car to save the children type. Road conditions were excellent and there was no traffic both ahead and behind of me for as far as I could see. I was not harming myself or anyone.

Ok ... that's all I have to say. Thank you for your input.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Well, point being, Bluesi says that whether or not he was guilty is subjective.

It's really not. Either he was in fact going faster than 35, or he was not. Facts are never subjective. Bluesi may not know "for sure" he was speeding... but the objective fact is that he was doing somethign to pretty dramatically attract the attention of that (already occupied) officer, to the point where he was hot enough to yell and wave.

Whether or not he was going enough over 35 to warrant a ticket, THAT's a subjective judgement... and as Fu pointed out, one that motor officers are trained, and paid, to make.

The concept that an officer already preoccupied with a ticket is going to just randomly decide to violently wave someone else over, and write them for 50 in a 35, is a tough one to accept on its face.

I'm not saying that the officer cannot be wrong, or even acting badly... such things do happen.

DJDINO

Kewl deal sir. Good luck with getting it resolved. There's a lot of useful info on this thread as you may have already noticed.

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

Spin that shiet.

boostinfc3s

if he wasn't on his motorcycle i woulda been OUT LOL

Miata_mx5

-When its almost up for your appearance, get a 1 month extension.

-When that's almost up, ask for another, if not be ready to submit trial by declaration.

-If you win with that, dandy, if not request for trial de novo (this whole process takes about 4-6 months).

So by the time you make a court appearance get together all your evidence and documents.

90 percent of the time, cop won't show up if it's a small infraction and it's been a long *** time. Just in case, be ready to fight him. I fought and won before on a 89 mph speeding ticket on the 57, an illegal lane change ticket a while back and another speeding ticket.

It's def worth your time than to take it in the ***. But, if you want to take it, by all means go for it.

Rotary13B1

iTrader: (8)

YEah.. that's smart... and get booked for evading a peace officer. What's the bail on THAT?

GL with fighting, if you guys have any other questions, ask FUwoMANCHU, she's got it down like hotcakes. In the end, when the judge reads both of these sticky notes (one by the cop, the other by you), it basically goes on a triple balance, whoever has more "weight" wins. Just remember the motor cops got experience and all that training under that size 52 belt. Maybe you can rig up some diagrams/pictures to go along with your excellent description of the traffic stop as well. Google maps, street view, etc.. That might help your case. ( This is where BJDino's response comes in, how much is your time worth?) Stick it to'em if you weren't speeding!