GB: FD3S LED tail light conversion - SakeBomb Garage
well actually i got them two weeks ago but just picked them up now. Ill post some picks shortly. My light's are no.33 !!!!! 
09-14-11, 12:49 PM
#832
Hello everyone – customers, friends, spectators, and everyone else who happens upon this thread.
Well over a year ago, before this group buy was launched, I made a set of these LED tail light conversions for a fellow forum member. This person was not part of the group buy and never had any sort of business transaction with SakeBomb Garage. After a year of use, this individual deemed the tail lights to be “unsafe” and “illegal” for use on public roads. Although this individual is not certified as an electrical or lighting engineer, he took it upon himself to conduct “brightness testing” which was done so using his own home-devised method. These tests were not sanctioned, supervised/conducted by, or in accordance with to any government body's or neutral 3rd party's methods, and therefore the results from these tests are legally worth little more than any non-professional, personal opinion. Despite this fact, I have publicly agreed that the LED tail lights I designed and constructed are not equal in brightness to the USDM lights. I have agreed to this based on my own experience with seeing the tail lights in harsh, direct sunlight, which can cause the lights to appear “washed out”. Even though this “washed out” effect can happen to factory tail lights, it is clear that the reduced light-output surface area causes the lights to appear dimmer that factory tail lights under these conditions. I have already stated this publicly on this forum, however I have now stated it again as per the concerned individual's demands.
It should be noted that to-date, there has not been one accident or injury as a result of anyone installing these tail lights on their car. Additionally, not one person has been fined or ticketed by law enforcement for using these lights on their car. I know people with stock USDM tail lights have been (wrongly) ticketed in the past for their factory tail lights, but that is a discussion for another day.
The person who conducted the home-testing has since reached out to individuals at various government agencies, including the NHTSA, questioning the safety and legality of the LED tail lights that I designed and built. This individual has stated multiple times over the past month that if SakeBomb Garage and myself do not meet his list of demands, than he will file a complaint with the NHTSA, which he claims will result in a government investigation of the LED tail lights, myself, and SakeBomb Garage as a business. He claims that we will face fines up to $2,000,000 for modifying tail lights. I am not sure if this is true, but he has forwarded me emails from an representative at the NHTSA, so I know his threat is not a bluff - if his demands aren't met, he really will try to “turn in” his fellow community members because of his personal dissatisfaction with my tail light modification.
That being said, it is important to understand that virtually zero aftermarket (or foreign market) tail lights are considered “street legal” and “government approved” for this car. As we now understand it, even modifying USDM lights to look like “99spec” (aka "JDM") tail lights is technically illegal, according to the information that has been presented by the individual, as those foreign-market style lights were never tested or inspected by the proper US authority. The individual has also told us that the terms “for off-road use only”, “for track use only”, or “for exhibition use only” do not apply to tail lights. This means the only way your car can be 100% legal (in respect to the tail lights) is to leave the unmodified USDM lights on the car.
I think 99% of the people on this forum have modified their Rx-7 using at least a few aftermarket parts. Car modification has always been a “gray area” of the law, as laws vary state by state, and the federal government tends to only regulate the big manufacturers. Aside from tail lights, the government also regulates things like emissions controllers, foreign-market engine swaps, wheel width, ride height, sound level, safety restraints, auto glass, body composites, etc. In short, there likely no way to modify a car without making it illegal on some level. I think most people understand this, but feel that most law/code/regulation enforcement agencies have better things to do.
As you all know, I'm a 26 year old grad-school student. What you might not know is that I have $100k in student loans and I haven't even finished paying off my one and only Rx-7. My car may not be show or track ready, but I do my best to take care of it, and can only afford the car because I do all the work myself (I'm sure some of you have seen my semi-recent “overhaul” thread or CarDomain page). I work a full-time M-F job and I produced these LED tail lights on the side because of the overwhelming demand that was generated by my original LED tail prototypes that I built for myself. I'm not a rich person - I don't have a trust fund, I don't have a savings, and I don't have a stock portfolio. Nevermind the fact that I obviously can't afford to pay $2,000,000 in fines that I may face if the individual is correct and he makes good on his threats – I wouldn't even be able to afford to pay my lawyer to represent me if the government decided to “go after me” for producing these tails.
I never thought that any member of this community would launch an all out assault against me and the SakeBomb Garage guys like the one that has been waged over the past few months. I have spent countless hours reading lengthy threads, posts, letters, and private messages sent by this individual - and just as much time responding. I have been forced to spend an unknown amount of time researching laws, contacting government agencies, and talking to an attorney. All the while (and even before this situation) I have been working with the SakeBomb Garage guys, the factories who supplied the original materials/components, and lighting experts in order come up with a new version of the tail lights that will be significantly brighter. However, now that I have been presented with the information mentioned earlier (that no modified/aftermarket tail lights are considered legal), I am not sure if I am even allowed to produce a new version of LED tail lights. I contacted the NHTSA, and have been trying to figure out if I am allowed to modify factory tail lights, and how I would have to go about doing it, so as to remain “legal” in the eyes of the government.
The next demand made by the individual is for a full refund of his original purchase price, less the cost of a “99spec” conversion. Although he was not part of the group buy, he insists that he was entitled to a warranty. Again, this individual originally contacted me to produce a set of LED tail lights for him, before the group buy, and before the lights were ever under the SakeBomb Garage name. When he first received his lights, he said they, “passed his tests,” and he felt they were “equal to stock brightness,” but obviously he has since changed his mind. This individual used his lights for approximately one year, driving all over the country with them to attend various car meet-ups and events. Recently, he disassembled the lights, effectively destroying what I originally sold to him. Despite all of this, he has demanded a $350 refund ($450 - $100 for a “99spec” conversion). At first I tried to offer him a $225 refund (returning half of his original payment), but he rejected it. I decided it would be easier to just give him the $350 he was asking to get him off my back, but under the condition that he return the LED tail light components (after all, I've never heard of someone getting a full refund on something without having to return the purchased item). When I told him that I wanted the LED components back (knowing he has already removed them), he said not to refund his $350 yet because he wants to hold onto the LED components “in case the rest of his demands aren't met and he decides to send them to the NHTSA.” Either way, I wanted to make sure this person was given a refund, just to get him off my back, so I have already returned $350 to him via PayPal, and I have confirmation that it has been received.
Lastly, the individual has also demanded that, “personal attacks on me to stop on the forums and on social media sites.” I am assuming this is because I called the individual a “self-entitled *****” in a forum post one time. Although I hardly consider this an attack, for writing that comment, I here and now publicly apologize to the individual. That aside, I am legally allowed to say whatever I want, about whoever I want, on my private Facebook page. I can assure everyone that I have made no such attacks though social networking sites, but if it pleases the individual he will be happy to know that I have no desire to use his name ever again, and I surely will not be saying anything about him on my personal, private Facebook profile – I have better things to do on Facebook: sharing photos from hanging out with friends, ranting about the government, and linking to cat videos on YouTube. I have also been told by other community members that the individual is now spreading rumors that I have “threatened to report him (and others) to the federal governmnet EPA for having an illegal JDM engine swap” - this is 100% untrue and I have already asked the indidevidual to cease from making these slanrous, false accusations.
To summarize:
These are the demands made by the individual and I have agreed to them. Again the individual has stated that he will not report me to the NHTSA or any other government agency if I complete these demands. Truthfully, I don't know if the NHTSA or anyone else cares about a couple dozen sets of tail lights that were installed on mostly show and/or track-modified collectors' sports cars, or sold to people who don't even live in this country, but better safe than sorry.
Now that all of that is out of the way, I want to say, “Thanks!” to everyone out there who has supported me and the SakeBomb Garage guys with your kind words, friendship, suggestions, and and/or your business. The SakeBomb Garage guys made exactly $0.00 on this group buy (after being paid back for the materials and shipping costs), and only hosted this group buy out of their love for these cars and the community. Myself, I've made very little money on this group buy as well, after the time and money spent on product research and development, hours lost at my day job due to light production, and now lawyer fees for legal advice. I suppose you can't satisfy everyone, but for everyone else I thank you for making it worth it to be part of this amazing community. Lastly, let this be a lesson to any DIY'ers out there who thinks it would be fun or even profitable to make/sell their innovations to others: it only takes one person to make your life a living hell.
Cheers,
Tom aka “theorie”
Well over a year ago, before this group buy was launched, I made a set of these LED tail light conversions for a fellow forum member. This person was not part of the group buy and never had any sort of business transaction with SakeBomb Garage. After a year of use, this individual deemed the tail lights to be “unsafe” and “illegal” for use on public roads. Although this individual is not certified as an electrical or lighting engineer, he took it upon himself to conduct “brightness testing” which was done so using his own home-devised method. These tests were not sanctioned, supervised/conducted by, or in accordance with to any government body's or neutral 3rd party's methods, and therefore the results from these tests are legally worth little more than any non-professional, personal opinion. Despite this fact, I have publicly agreed that the LED tail lights I designed and constructed are not equal in brightness to the USDM lights. I have agreed to this based on my own experience with seeing the tail lights in harsh, direct sunlight, which can cause the lights to appear “washed out”. Even though this “washed out” effect can happen to factory tail lights, it is clear that the reduced light-output surface area causes the lights to appear dimmer that factory tail lights under these conditions. I have already stated this publicly on this forum, however I have now stated it again as per the concerned individual's demands.
It should be noted that to-date, there has not been one accident or injury as a result of anyone installing these tail lights on their car. Additionally, not one person has been fined or ticketed by law enforcement for using these lights on their car. I know people with stock USDM tail lights have been (wrongly) ticketed in the past for their factory tail lights, but that is a discussion for another day.
The person who conducted the home-testing has since reached out to individuals at various government agencies, including the NHTSA, questioning the safety and legality of the LED tail lights that I designed and built. This individual has stated multiple times over the past month that if SakeBomb Garage and myself do not meet his list of demands, than he will file a complaint with the NHTSA, which he claims will result in a government investigation of the LED tail lights, myself, and SakeBomb Garage as a business. He claims that we will face fines up to $2,000,000 for modifying tail lights. I am not sure if this is true, but he has forwarded me emails from an representative at the NHTSA, so I know his threat is not a bluff - if his demands aren't met, he really will try to “turn in” his fellow community members because of his personal dissatisfaction with my tail light modification.
That being said, it is important to understand that virtually zero aftermarket (or foreign market) tail lights are considered “street legal” and “government approved” for this car. As we now understand it, even modifying USDM lights to look like “99spec” (aka "JDM") tail lights is technically illegal, according to the information that has been presented by the individual, as those foreign-market style lights were never tested or inspected by the proper US authority. The individual has also told us that the terms “for off-road use only”, “for track use only”, or “for exhibition use only” do not apply to tail lights. This means the only way your car can be 100% legal (in respect to the tail lights) is to leave the unmodified USDM lights on the car.
I think 99% of the people on this forum have modified their Rx-7 using at least a few aftermarket parts. Car modification has always been a “gray area” of the law, as laws vary state by state, and the federal government tends to only regulate the big manufacturers. Aside from tail lights, the government also regulates things like emissions controllers, foreign-market engine swaps, wheel width, ride height, sound level, safety restraints, auto glass, body composites, etc. In short, there likely no way to modify a car without making it illegal on some level. I think most people understand this, but feel that most law/code/regulation enforcement agencies have better things to do.
As you all know, I'm a 26 year old grad-school student. What you might not know is that I have $100k in student loans and I haven't even finished paying off my one and only Rx-7. My car may not be show or track ready, but I do my best to take care of it, and can only afford the car because I do all the work myself (I'm sure some of you have seen my semi-recent “overhaul” thread or CarDomain page). I work a full-time M-F job and I produced these LED tail lights on the side because of the overwhelming demand that was generated by my original LED tail prototypes that I built for myself. I'm not a rich person - I don't have a trust fund, I don't have a savings, and I don't have a stock portfolio. Nevermind the fact that I obviously can't afford to pay $2,000,000 in fines that I may face if the individual is correct and he makes good on his threats – I wouldn't even be able to afford to pay my lawyer to represent me if the government decided to “go after me” for producing these tails.
I never thought that any member of this community would launch an all out assault against me and the SakeBomb Garage guys like the one that has been waged over the past few months. I have spent countless hours reading lengthy threads, posts, letters, and private messages sent by this individual - and just as much time responding. I have been forced to spend an unknown amount of time researching laws, contacting government agencies, and talking to an attorney. All the while (and even before this situation) I have been working with the SakeBomb Garage guys, the factories who supplied the original materials/components, and lighting experts in order come up with a new version of the tail lights that will be significantly brighter. However, now that I have been presented with the information mentioned earlier (that no modified/aftermarket tail lights are considered legal), I am not sure if I am even allowed to produce a new version of LED tail lights. I contacted the NHTSA, and have been trying to figure out if I am allowed to modify factory tail lights, and how I would have to go about doing it, so as to remain “legal” in the eyes of the government.
The next demand made by the individual is for a full refund of his original purchase price, less the cost of a “99spec” conversion. Although he was not part of the group buy, he insists that he was entitled to a warranty. Again, this individual originally contacted me to produce a set of LED tail lights for him, before the group buy, and before the lights were ever under the SakeBomb Garage name. When he first received his lights, he said they, “passed his tests,” and he felt they were “equal to stock brightness,” but obviously he has since changed his mind. This individual used his lights for approximately one year, driving all over the country with them to attend various car meet-ups and events. Recently, he disassembled the lights, effectively destroying what I originally sold to him. Despite all of this, he has demanded a $350 refund ($450 - $100 for a “99spec” conversion). At first I tried to offer him a $225 refund (returning half of his original payment), but he rejected it. I decided it would be easier to just give him the $350 he was asking to get him off my back, but under the condition that he return the LED tail light components (after all, I've never heard of someone getting a full refund on something without having to return the purchased item). When I told him that I wanted the LED components back (knowing he has already removed them), he said not to refund his $350 yet because he wants to hold onto the LED components “in case the rest of his demands aren't met and he decides to send them to the NHTSA.” Either way, I wanted to make sure this person was given a refund, just to get him off my back, so I have already returned $350 to him via PayPal, and I have confirmation that it has been received.
Lastly, the individual has also demanded that, “personal attacks on me to stop on the forums and on social media sites.” I am assuming this is because I called the individual a “self-entitled *****” in a forum post one time. Although I hardly consider this an attack, for writing that comment, I here and now publicly apologize to the individual. That aside, I am legally allowed to say whatever I want, about whoever I want, on my private Facebook page. I can assure everyone that I have made no such attacks though social networking sites, but if it pleases the individual he will be happy to know that I have no desire to use his name ever again, and I surely will not be saying anything about him on my personal, private Facebook profile – I have better things to do on Facebook: sharing photos from hanging out with friends, ranting about the government, and linking to cat videos on YouTube. I have also been told by other community members that the individual is now spreading rumors that I have “threatened to report him (and others) to the federal governmnet EPA for having an illegal JDM engine swap” - this is 100% untrue and I have already asked the indidevidual to cease from making these slanrous, false accusations.
To summarize:
- I have been told that I must publicly state that the original LED tail lights are “not equal to or brighter than stock” and I have done so in this thread. Keeping in mind that I never advertised the lights as government tested or certified, and I sold the lights advertised as “off-road use only.”
- I have outlined the dilemma faced in providing an immediate solution for any other concerned customers, however I am issuing a “public recall” (as demanded) which will operate as follows:
- Any group buy customer who was unsatisfied with the brightness of my LED tail lights can contact me directly (if they haven't already) to discuss the available options. An “immediate fix” option (which, as I understand, is the only “approved option”) will consist of DOT-approved incandescent light bulbs that will be installed into the tail light housings to increase brake light brightness to the stock level. Unfortunately this is the only immediate solution as the “Version 2” tail lights are still under development and testing and will not be ready for production for at least a couple of months.
- I have already refunded this non-GB customer the $350 he has demanded under the condition that he return the LED tail light components that I built and installed. Since the individual paid me directly for his non-GB set of lights, I have paid him back out of my own pocket.
- I promise to not “attack” the individual by saying anything mean about him on my social networking profiles, even though they are set viewable to “friends only” and hidden from the general public.
These are the demands made by the individual and I have agreed to them. Again the individual has stated that he will not report me to the NHTSA or any other government agency if I complete these demands. Truthfully, I don't know if the NHTSA or anyone else cares about a couple dozen sets of tail lights that were installed on mostly show and/or track-modified collectors' sports cars, or sold to people who don't even live in this country, but better safe than sorry.
Now that all of that is out of the way, I want to say, “Thanks!” to everyone out there who has supported me and the SakeBomb Garage guys with your kind words, friendship, suggestions, and and/or your business. The SakeBomb Garage guys made exactly $0.00 on this group buy (after being paid back for the materials and shipping costs), and only hosted this group buy out of their love for these cars and the community. Myself, I've made very little money on this group buy as well, after the time and money spent on product research and development, hours lost at my day job due to light production, and now lawyer fees for legal advice. I suppose you can't satisfy everyone, but for everyone else I thank you for making it worth it to be part of this amazing community. Lastly, let this be a lesson to any DIY'ers out there who thinks it would be fun or even profitable to make/sell their innovations to others: it only takes one person to make your life a living hell.
Cheers,
Tom aka “theorie”
09-14-11, 01:32 PM
#833
PUBLIC RECALL OPTION:
Working with Tom and the new information on tail light modification, we think the only “immediate fix,” that would be in compliance with NHTSA regulations, would to increase brake light brightness by installing a DOT-approved incandescent light bulb in addition to the LED rings. This would be a free-of-cost option for those who street-drive their car, are concerned with the brightness levels, and need an “immediate fix.” The other non-immediate option would be to wait for the Version 2 LED tail lights. Version 2 lights are still under development. We would offer Version 2 to customers from the original group buy for a significantly discounted price. Unfortunately, this new version of the LED tail lights would likely have been completed and ready by now, however the process has been significantly delayed due to the ongoing battle and negotiations with a "concerned" forum member who has taken up a great deal of our time with his persistent communications and demands. However due to the fact that we could now potentially face fines and legal action from the government for modifying tail lights we are unsure if version two will become a reality.
Either way, we are asking any concerned customers from the group buy to contact us or Theorie to figure out the best option on a case-by-case basis. We want to ensure all of our GB customers are satisfied with the conversion they received and the price they paid.
Recall options:
Option 1: Ship your tail lights and wiring harness back to us for modification.
*from the time you ship your lights to the time you receive them again can take roughly 3 weeks*
Option 2: A "DIY" verison of option one, which we can ship to you at no charge. However we would need to know the demand for this option before we order the required components. The process should take roughly an hour to complete and we would include printed instructions.
It is not necessary to post in this thread as it will not be monitored from this point forward. All customers can contact any of us directly if you would like to discuss the incandescent light bulb "immediate fix" option. Feel free to email us or Tom directly.
Thanks,
Dan
sakebombgarage@gmail.com
Working with Tom and the new information on tail light modification, we think the only “immediate fix,” that would be in compliance with NHTSA regulations, would to increase brake light brightness by installing a DOT-approved incandescent light bulb in addition to the LED rings. This would be a free-of-cost option for those who street-drive their car, are concerned with the brightness levels, and need an “immediate fix.” The other non-immediate option would be to wait for the Version 2 LED tail lights. Version 2 lights are still under development. We would offer Version 2 to customers from the original group buy for a significantly discounted price. Unfortunately, this new version of the LED tail lights would likely have been completed and ready by now, however the process has been significantly delayed due to the ongoing battle and negotiations with a "concerned" forum member who has taken up a great deal of our time with his persistent communications and demands. However due to the fact that we could now potentially face fines and legal action from the government for modifying tail lights we are unsure if version two will become a reality.
Either way, we are asking any concerned customers from the group buy to contact us or Theorie to figure out the best option on a case-by-case basis. We want to ensure all of our GB customers are satisfied with the conversion they received and the price they paid.
Recall options:
Option 1: Ship your tail lights and wiring harness back to us for modification.
*from the time you ship your lights to the time you receive them again can take roughly 3 weeks*
Option 2: A "DIY" verison of option one, which we can ship to you at no charge. However we would need to know the demand for this option before we order the required components. The process should take roughly an hour to complete and we would include printed instructions.
It is not necessary to post in this thread as it will not be monitored from this point forward. All customers can contact any of us directly if you would like to discuss the incandescent light bulb "immediate fix" option. Feel free to email us or Tom directly.
Thanks,
Dan
sakebombgarage@gmail.com
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
Last edited by SakeBomb Garage; 09-14-11 at 01:38 PM.
