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Oh and by the way.. Here is your LS2 (6.0) based 8200 RPM pushrod engine. NASCAR tested and approved... 9 years ago. You can replicate this for less than half of the $22k cost if you know where to get the parts . It is based off OEM head and block castings with upgraded internals and a dry sump.
It makes 625 HP and 500 lb ft of torque.
NASCAR's New Motor - Circle Track Magazine
Oh trust me I have added up the costs of getting the LS to rev/sound glorious (to me) and decided its probably best to hold out for some years and try to get a "junked" Voodoo (and put real 4-1 headers on it) as it will probably fit in my chassis of choice (RX-8) since Japanese OHC V8s fit.
Like I keep saying, LS is a very practical swap and is plenty fast- no reason for me to go all cammed up, ITB, front facing 180 deg header on it to make it impractical for lots of $$ when I can go right to the real thing.
I realized I should accept the LS for what it is or move on to another motor, much like with the rotary. Unless you are in a racing class that specifies motor- then you make crazy compromises and spend $$ to keep it.
I am still considering LS/T56 ofc, just not some mutant LS.
The numbers I found way back when were that the TII could handle around 550-ft/lbs and that the thing that killed them (like any trans) was high shock load. I'll be putting this too the test.
Yeah, that is how I stripped 3rd out on my TII trans. Lost traction with a roll on down an on ramp, let off the gas and jumped back on the gas when it hooked again.
I don't see how you can prevent shocking the TII trans short of driving like a grandma, putting a torque converter in front of it instead of a clutch or running skinny all season tires all the time.
Oh and by the way.. Here is your LS2 (6.0) based 8200 RPM pushrod engine. NASCAR tested and approved... 9 years ago. You can replicate this for less than half of the $22k cost if you know where to get the parts . It is based off OEM head and block castings with upgraded internals and a dry sump.
It makes 625 HP and 500 lb ft of torque.
NASCAR's New Motor - Circle Track Magazine
Oh trust me I have added up the costs of getting the LS to rev/sound glorious (to me) and decided its probably best to hold out for some years and try to get a "junked" Voodoo (and put real 4-1 headers on it) as it will probably fit in my chassis of choice (RX-8) since Japanese OHC V8s fit.
Like I keep saying, LS is a very practical swap and is plenty fast- no reason for me to go all cammed up, ITB, front facing 180 deg header on it to make it impractical for lots of $$ when I can go right to the real thing.
I realized I should accept the LS for what it is or move on to another motor, much like with the rotary. Unless you are in a racing class that specifies motor- then you make crazy compromises and spend $$ to keep it.
I am still considering LS/T56 ofc, just not some mutant LS.
You really are complicating your life My next track car will probably be an Rx8 with an LS in it.
The flat plane crank Ford 5.2 is pretty cool but again, gigantic. I'm interested to see what is next for the LT series of GM engines.
LOF, barring a couple of reliability mods the LS1 is stock. Although my current set of wheels are stock TII, so it'll be very able to spin those. I, too, am curious about what my initial impressions will be.
Blue, Yup, that'll do it. Although I suspect a T-5 would have been in the same shape and frankly wonder about a T-56; they're strong, but shock that shears a gear is typically very extreme. At the time of my starting the TII to LS1 I didn't have the money to consider a T-56 or piecing together a T-5 and I had a TII trans sitting around and figured, what the hell?
Come now, LOF, while OHC V8's are big compared to their push rod brethren, a push rod V8 is pretty big compared to a rotary too
Come now, LOF, while OHC V8's are big compared to their push rod brethren, a push rod V8 is pretty big compared to a rotary too
Its true, OHC V8 is larger and won't easily fit in FD- but I want V8 RX-8 anyways as I like the stability of the chassis more. LS FD makes sense for sure.
You really are complicating your life My next track car will probably be an Rx8 with an LS in it.
See, I thought I was making my life less complicated by not trying to "fix" the LS V8 but using a stock V8 I liked more
Believe me, I keep trying to convince myself the LS doesn't need any "fixing" but I was traumatized to the crossplane V8 sound when I moved into the sticks as a child and every yahoo miscreant in the world threw beer bottles and other debris and gravel off their tires at me from crapped out mid '70s "muscle cars".
It is going to take therapy which costs more than a flat plane V8.
My dream engine was the VW W8 because it is flat crank V8 (glorious sound to me) that is only 16" long like the rotary and 450lb like the dressed 13B-REW. Problems were its made by VW (poor reliability from weak parts and complexity) and only a 4.0 so not much torque. Might as well do a NA 20B. If W8 was bored way out with Veyron connecting rods and fixed cam timing it would be perfect in an RX-8. WRX-8... even like the name of resulting car.
See, that is an example of really complicating my life *a la medula-bad-idea*
LOF, barring a couple of reliability mods the LS1 is stock. Although my current set of wheels are stock TII, so it'll be very able to spin those. I, too, am curious about what my initial impressions will be.
Blue, Yup, that'll do it. Although I suspect a T-5 would have been in the same shape and frankly wonder about a T-56; they're strong, but shock that shears a gear is typically very extreme. At the time of my starting the TII to LS1 I didn't have the money to consider a T-56 or piecing together a T-5 and I had a TII trans sitting around and figured, what the hell?
Come now, LOF, while OHC V8's are big compared to their push rod brethren, a push rod V8 is pretty big compared to a rotary too
Agreed. But a DOHC V8 is huge compared to a pushrod engine of similar displacement. See the picture on the first page. It is only a negative if it does not fit due to size. I don't think one would fit in an FD. I believe they fit in a FC.
Come now, LOF, while OHC V8's are big compared to their push rod brethren, a push rod V8 is pretty big compared to a rotary too
Its true, OHC V8 is larger and won't easily fit in FD- but I want V8 RX-8 anyways as I like the stability of the chassis more. LS FD makes sense for sure.
You really are complicating your life My next track car will probably be an Rx8 with an LS in it.
See, I thought I was making my life less complicated by not trying to "fix" the LS V8 but using a stock V8 I liked more
Believe me, I keep trying to convince myself the LS doesn't need any "fixing" but I was traumatized to the crossplane V8 sound when I moved into the sticks as a child and every yahoo miscreant in the world threw beer bottles and other debris and gravel off their tires at me from crapped out mid '70s "muscle cars".
It is going to take therapy which costs more than a flat plane V8.
My dream engine was the VW W8 because it is flat crank V8 (glorious sound to me) that is only 16" long like the rotary and 450lb like the dressed 13B-REW. Problems were its made by VW (poor reliability from weak parts and complexity) and only a 4.0 so not much torque. Might as well do a NA 20B. If W8 was bored way out with Veyron connecting rods and fixed cam timing it would be perfect in an RX-8. WRX-8... even like the name of resulting car.
See, that is an example of really complicating my life *a la medula-bad-idea*
Save yourself the hardache and money. Swap in an LS with the quietest exhaust you can build. Install a good stereo and play the engine sounds of your choosing a la BMW.
Save yourself the hardache and money. Swap in an LS with the quietest exhaust you can build. Install a good stereo and play the engine sounds of your choosing a la BMW.
Definitely considered this option! With a super muffled LS I think I could forget what was under the hood because the hood could stay closed for a year or two at a time.
We will see how Voodoo reliability and parts/availability pans out.
Hmmn, as a kid when I raced RC cars the 100,000rpm Black Magic "Voodoo" drag motor was my all time favorite in my RC10 buggy geared down with a 9 tooth pinion.
More baggage from my childhood? I better start paying for that therapy.
valley Blue, you do know that you can buy a flat plane crank for an LSx block, right?
No.
I gave up looking for a flat plane crank kit for the ls once I added up the cost to make a pushrod LS rev. You can get to 7k pretty cheap (though I would argue not reliably as stock Z06 show), 8k costs real money and is questionable reliability even with the high cost, 9k is for drag racing/rebuild schedule.
In my searches I found Lingenfelter had made/was going to make a flat crank kit for the LS.
Could you link me to a flat crank kit for the LS for sale?
Also, do you have some good reasoning I haven't thought of on why I would make such radical modifications to an LS when I could use a stock GM Voodoo motor?
My friend keeps trying to talk me into Ferrari/Maserati engines because you can get them for a reasonable price, but I am afraid to check into the cost of rebuild parts. Plus, low displacement engines with no torque (250ft/lb @ wheel), might as well do a 3 rotor NA.
Voodoo is American flat crank so it has displacement and near 400ft/lbs @ crank torque.
You can make a LS1/2/3 engine rev to 7000 more reliably than a stock LS7. All you really need are valve springs, pushrods, and a trunion upgrade for the rocker arms. Add a good set of rod bolts for good measure. That is about $500 worth of stuff.
You mean Ford Voodoo engine correct? The reason not to do it is price and time. LS swap kits are available, LS swap headers are available, and the LS fits under the stock hood. The Ford TR6060 trans with rail mounted shifter will be a bear to get to work and you will need a custom trans mount. Otherwise you are in for a Ford T56 Magnum trans
You can have a built LS3 that will make over 500 WHP and be essentially bulletproof for much less than the cost of the Ford flat plane 5.2.
Logically, the LS engine is the only choice to swap into an RX7 from a development, price and time saving perspective. Anything else will cost you more money and time for a less polished result, and no increase in performance.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 06-04-15 at 02:26 PM.
I'm not arguing against the LS V8 and I'm not saying it isn't a great engine. I agree it is the most practical engine swap for an RX and I am always trying to talk myself into it.
That was why I related the story of me figuring out how much it was going to cost to make a 8,000rpm ls V8 with forward facing 180 deg headers and ITBs. But in the end that is like a $20k swap adventure for an imitation of the engine I really want.
I don't think my desire for a high rev flat plane V8 that has adequate torque is going to be met by using an ls v8 as a base engine, but if I start working at a machine shop in the future I might start up some LS block, VK56 head, flat crank project.
Then again, if I started working at a machine shop I would probably just go right to working on a 4 rotor NA.
Realistically, that desire to have a torquey flat crank V8 RX-8 will probably never be met- but I keep dreaming because back when I got my FC I never dreamed I would be able to get an FD and my RX-8 was barely a dream for Mazda.
If I was just ready to open my pockets and dump outrageous money I would just make that 4 rotor NA
or better yet- get a lighter, better chassis (ND Miata) and put a 2 or 3 rotor NA in it.
I'm not trying to convince you the ls isn't the best engine, if you think it is I am jealous that you have your dream engine already.
Anyways, silly to have all this in a thread about a TII trans so I'm not going to write anymore about my theoretical dream engine here. Maybe I will start a dream engine thread in the lounge so I can get more ideas on how to make my dream happen.
The LS is not better or worse than a host of other engines. However, just because it has pushrods and does not rev to 8000RPM from the factory does not make it inherently worse either. LS engines run with everything else in the showroom stock classes of racing.
I would agree that having your dream engine in any RX7 or RX8 is tall order and will be an expensive proposition.
The 4 rotor thing in a track car I don't get at all unless you are going to build a tube chassis car or do a ton of work to move the firewall back a foot on a stock framed car.
Personally I don't care about the sound, or the rev limit. I put the LS in the car because it was the cheapest, most reliable option to get what I wanted out of the car. Am I a Chevy guy, absolutely, but that said I had a 2004 Cobra and liked it a lot.. all 4 overhead cams included.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 06-04-15 at 03:27 PM.
actually on the tire front we've had a set of nitto's on the race car this year, and they went like 7 weekends before getting slow, which is really good. we just put a second set on, and with a little tweaking we're like 1/2 second off the times we run with R6 hoosiers.
06-03-15, 01:37 PM
My next track car will probably be an Rx8 with an LS in it.
