My New Motor!!!!!!!!!!!
02-02-07, 10:27 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by digitalsolo
Back off the ricer math on your weight and ET calculations.
I want to see ~230 RWHP run low/mid 11s in that car. You do that, and I'll buy you a beer.
I want to see ~230 RWHP run low/mid 11s in that car. You do that, and I'll buy you a beer.
Yes i will be finishing the body work when i get the motor Done and driving she cranks great but i still need a driveshaft...
whts wrong with the engine bay? yea its not cleaned up (still messing with stuff wiring up things ect) but other than that its been painted its Yellow with gold flake. im changing colors though so im going to be corvette orange.
to the people who dont think i will be running 11's ill post the vid shouldnt be more than a month. i dont appreciate being called rice
wheres my neons? wheres my painted interior, wheres my Tvs? hell i dont even have a sterio. the car is fully FUNCTIONAL!~ every vent every widebody fender even the (soon to come) kevlar dash 
ill be saving about 70 lbs with that... DAMN i think someones jello i know from experien ce how hard it is to squeze 200 let along 300 from a rotary motor. its hard. ive done it a few times. its like putting a honda motor in a Semi. IT JUST WONT WORK.
aaron
keep the comments coming!
02-02-07, 12:57 PM
#29
I'm not jealous of your 5.7L, I've got 6.2L in my RX7, pay attention man. Hell, I'll line up with you with the 5.3L in it.
You're using ricer math because you're throwing round guesstimations of weight based on things you read, not what you put on a scale. Your LT1 weight difference for example. An LT1+tranny is much more then 40 lbs heavier then the engine that came in your car, I don't really care what Grant says. If you believe an N/A 12A or 13B w/ tranny is within 40 lbs, or even 80 lbs of an iron SBC and 700r4, you're high.
What did they make the stock dash out of in an FB? My stock FC dash and harness weighs less then 70 lbs, and any aluminum (let alone Kevlar, which is a heavy material, though I'm at a loss why on earth you would use that) that I would put in it's place would cut into that weight savings even more.
Finally, not all years of LT1 made 280 HP (actually none did, some were rated at 275, others at 285), and then that put through a 700r4 and a Mazda rear and it is going to lose a solid 20% of power before it reaches the ground (this is pretty common knowledge...), so, say your "280 HP" number, that's a 56 HP loss, and 224 HP at the rear wheels; keep in mind, an LS1/T56 often makes hp in the range of 300 HP AT THE WHEELS, not the flywheel. Say you're really lucky, have a great engine, and you make 310 flywheel HP, you're still ~240 at the wheels.
You getting this?
My bet is closer to 2500 wet, minus driver, and a 12.5-12.7, depending on the health of your motor. But then again, WTF do I know about V8 RX7s or drag racing...
You're using ricer math because you're throwing round guesstimations of weight based on things you read, not what you put on a scale. Your LT1 weight difference for example. An LT1+tranny is much more then 40 lbs heavier then the engine that came in your car, I don't really care what Grant says. If you believe an N/A 12A or 13B w/ tranny is within 40 lbs, or even 80 lbs of an iron SBC and 700r4, you're high.
What did they make the stock dash out of in an FB? My stock FC dash and harness weighs less then 70 lbs, and any aluminum (let alone Kevlar, which is a heavy material, though I'm at a loss why on earth you would use that) that I would put in it's place would cut into that weight savings even more.
Finally, not all years of LT1 made 280 HP (actually none did, some were rated at 275, others at 285), and then that put through a 700r4 and a Mazda rear and it is going to lose a solid 20% of power before it reaches the ground (this is pretty common knowledge...), so, say your "280 HP" number, that's a 56 HP loss, and 224 HP at the rear wheels; keep in mind, an LS1/T56 often makes hp in the range of 300 HP AT THE WHEELS, not the flywheel. Say you're really lucky, have a great engine, and you make 310 flywheel HP, you're still ~240 at the wheels.
You getting this?
My bet is closer to 2500 wet, minus driver, and a 12.5-12.7, depending on the health of your motor. But then again, WTF do I know about V8 RX7s or drag racing...
Last edited by digitalsolo; 02-02-07 at 01:20 PM.
02-02-07, 11:39 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by digitalsolo
I'm not jealous of your 5.7L, I've got 6.2L in my RX7, pay attention man. Hell, I'll line up with you with the 5.3L in it.
You're using ricer math because you're throwing round guesstimations of weight based on things you read, not what you put on a scale. Your LT1 weight difference for example. An LT1+tranny is much more then 40 lbs heavier then the engine that came in your car, I don't really care what Grant says. If you believe an N/A 12A or 13B w/ tranny is within 40 lbs, or even 80 lbs of an iron SBC and 700r4, you're high.
What did they make the stock dash out of in an FB? My stock FC dash and harness weighs less then 70 lbs, and any aluminum (let alone Kevlar, which is a heavy material, though I'm at a loss why on earth you would use that) that I would put in it's place would cut into that weight savings even more.
Finally, not all years of LT1 made 280 HP (actually none did, some were rated at 275, others at 285), and then that put through a 700r4 and a Mazda rear and it is going to lose a solid 20% of power before it reaches the ground (this is pretty common knowledge...), so, say your "280 HP" number, that's a 56 HP loss, and 224 HP at the rear wheels; keep in mind, an LS1/T56 often makes hp in the range of 300 HP AT THE WHEELS, not the flywheel. Say you're really lucky, have a great engine, and you make 310 flywheel HP, you're still ~240 at the wheels.
You getting this?
My bet is closer to 2500 wet, minus driver, and a 12.5-12.7, depending on the health of your motor. But then again, WTF do I know about V8 RX7s or drag racing...
You're using ricer math because you're throwing round guesstimations of weight based on things you read, not what you put on a scale. Your LT1 weight difference for example. An LT1+tranny is much more then 40 lbs heavier then the engine that came in your car, I don't really care what Grant says. If you believe an N/A 12A or 13B w/ tranny is within 40 lbs, or even 80 lbs of an iron SBC and 700r4, you're high.
What did they make the stock dash out of in an FB? My stock FC dash and harness weighs less then 70 lbs, and any aluminum (let alone Kevlar, which is a heavy material, though I'm at a loss why on earth you would use that) that I would put in it's place would cut into that weight savings even more.
Finally, not all years of LT1 made 280 HP (actually none did, some were rated at 275, others at 285), and then that put through a 700r4 and a Mazda rear and it is going to lose a solid 20% of power before it reaches the ground (this is pretty common knowledge...), so, say your "280 HP" number, that's a 56 HP loss, and 224 HP at the rear wheels; keep in mind, an LS1/T56 often makes hp in the range of 300 HP AT THE WHEELS, not the flywheel. Say you're really lucky, have a great engine, and you make 310 flywheel HP, you're still ~240 at the wheels.
You getting this?
My bet is closer to 2500 wet, minus driver, and a 12.5-12.7, depending on the health of your motor. But then again, WTF do I know about V8 RX7s or drag racing...
02-03-07, 01:13 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by digitalsolo
I'm not jealous of your 5.7L, I've got 6.2L in my RX7, pay attention man. Hell, I'll line up with you with the 5.3L in it.
You're using ricer math because you're throwing round guesstimations of weight based on things you read, not what you put on a scale. Your LT1 weight difference for example. An LT1+tranny is much more then 40 lbs heavier then the engine that came in your car, I don't really care what Grant says. If you believe an N/A 12A or 13B w/ tranny is within 40 lbs, or even 80 lbs of an iron SBC and 700r4, you're high.
What did they make the stock dash out of in an FB? My stock FC dash and harness weighs less then 70 lbs, and any aluminum (let alone Kevlar, which is a heavy material, though I'm at a loss why on earth you would use that) that I would put in it's place would cut into that weight savings even more.
Finally, not all years of LT1 made 280 HP (actually none did, some were rated at 275, others at 285), and then that put through a 700r4 and a Mazda rear and it is going to lose a solid 20% of power before it reaches the ground (this is pretty common knowledge...), so, say your "280 HP" number, that's a 56 HP loss, and 224 HP at the rear wheels; keep in mind, an LS1/T56 often makes hp in the range of 300 HP AT THE WHEELS, not the flywheel. Say you're really lucky, have a great engine, and you make 310 flywheel HP, you're still ~240 at the wheels.
You getting this?
My bet is closer to 2500 wet, minus driver, and a 12.5-12.7, depending on the health of your motor. But then again, WTF do I know about V8 RX7s or drag racing...
You're using ricer math because you're throwing round guesstimations of weight based on things you read, not what you put on a scale. Your LT1 weight difference for example. An LT1+tranny is much more then 40 lbs heavier then the engine that came in your car, I don't really care what Grant says. If you believe an N/A 12A or 13B w/ tranny is within 40 lbs, or even 80 lbs of an iron SBC and 700r4, you're high.
What did they make the stock dash out of in an FB? My stock FC dash and harness weighs less then 70 lbs, and any aluminum (let alone Kevlar, which is a heavy material, though I'm at a loss why on earth you would use that) that I would put in it's place would cut into that weight savings even more.
Finally, not all years of LT1 made 280 HP (actually none did, some were rated at 275, others at 285), and then that put through a 700r4 and a Mazda rear and it is going to lose a solid 20% of power before it reaches the ground (this is pretty common knowledge...), so, say your "280 HP" number, that's a 56 HP loss, and 224 HP at the rear wheels; keep in mind, an LS1/T56 often makes hp in the range of 300 HP AT THE WHEELS, not the flywheel. Say you're really lucky, have a great engine, and you make 310 flywheel HP, you're still ~240 at the wheels.
You getting this?
My bet is closer to 2500 wet, minus driver, and a 12.5-12.7, depending on the health of your motor. But then again, WTF do I know about V8 RX7s or drag racing...
Good post, thank you.
02-06-07, 03:27 AM
#36
Originally Posted by digitalsolo
and then that put through a 700r4 and a Mazda rear and it is going to lose a solid 20% of power before it reaches the ground (this is pretty common knowledge...),
I never bought into this whole percentage thing.
Let's say car X with a certain drivetrain makes 300 flywheel horsepower, and you dyno at 230 at the wheels. It takes 70hp to get your tires to turn through the drivetrain, and that's a 24% loss
Now, let's say car X makes 700 flywheel horsepower. Are you going to tell me that even though the driveline doesn't change and has the same drag as before is going to now require 168hp to spin your wheels?
A 1000 hp motor now requires 240hp to get your tires to move? If it takes 240hp to move your tires, then shouldn't your original 300fwhp dyno read only 60whp? It's got the same drivetrain.
What is in the driveline that causes it to suck more power whenever the engine makes more power?
Feel free to debate, I'm not knocking you at all, i'm just throwing some ideas out there to think about.
02-06-07, 12:48 PM
#37
Drivetrain loss of course does not scale in a linear fashion with power output; however the 20% loss is a fair estimate with a slushbox and a decently efficient (read small/weak) rear end.
But yes, as per your question, power losses do increase as HP does. The thing to keep in mind is that rear end and transmission strength must increase as power does (a stock rear and 700r4 won't tolerate 800 HP for long), and the downfall of beefier driveline parts is increased parasitic losses. Better put, a 1000 HP capable rear end and transmission will eat more HP then a 500 HP capable setup.
To end the long answer to your short question, even with the same hardware, drivetain losses do increase as HP does.
~20% is a generally accepted number for a near stock configuration. High output systems tend to be an even higher loss rate, and some stock configuarations are somewhat lower. A stick shift tends to be closer to the 15% range also.
But yes, as per your question, power losses do increase as HP does. The thing to keep in mind is that rear end and transmission strength must increase as power does (a stock rear and 700r4 won't tolerate 800 HP for long), and the downfall of beefier driveline parts is increased parasitic losses. Better put, a 1000 HP capable rear end and transmission will eat more HP then a 500 HP capable setup.
To end the long answer to your short question, even with the same hardware, drivetain losses do increase as HP does.
~20% is a generally accepted number for a near stock configuration. High output systems tend to be an even higher loss rate, and some stock configuarations are somewhat lower. A stick shift tends to be closer to the 15% range also.
02-07-07, 12:38 AM
#38
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It's not so much that it's sapping MORE POWER, but when you increase the rate of acceleration of those parts due to more power, you're getting more instantaneous drag from those parts.
For instance, take your hand and try to move it slowly through a pool of water. Not a whole lot of resistance. Now take your hand and try to whip it through the water... you'll feel a whole lot more resistance.
That's basically what is going on. In order to register MORE power on the same parts, you need to accelerate those parts faster. When you do, you'll be encountering more resistance from inertia and frictional losses based on the fact that you're asking for more movement in the same amount of time.
For instance, take your hand and try to move it slowly through a pool of water. Not a whole lot of resistance. Now take your hand and try to whip it through the water... you'll feel a whole lot more resistance.
That's basically what is going on. In order to register MORE power on the same parts, you need to accelerate those parts faster. When you do, you'll be encountering more resistance from inertia and frictional losses based on the fact that you're asking for more movement in the same amount of time.
02-07-07, 08:56 AM
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Bring Newton into the equation
F=ma
force = mass x Acceleration
heavy duty drivetrain will increase mass therefore increase the resistance force F.
A high BHP engine will increase Accerleration therefore increase the resistance Force F.
Do both and F will increase quite a lot and that is why losses in the drivetrain increase with a) power b)Heavy duty setups.
Isaac Newton was a seriously clever man!
force = mass x Acceleration
heavy duty drivetrain will increase mass therefore increase the resistance force F.
A high BHP engine will increase Accerleration therefore increase the resistance Force F.
Do both and F will increase quite a lot and that is why losses in the drivetrain increase with a) power b)Heavy duty setups.
Isaac Newton was a seriously clever man!
02-08-07, 12:47 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by Turbo bondo 7
CANT WAIT TO GET HER PAINTED GOING 2006 CORVETTE ORANGE
