F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

The only entity that could be hit for Libel is the news paper for reporting false information with the intention of hurting Hinsons buisness.

However if there is a real police report which is public information... where is the libel?

KaoticFdR1

The intent is presumed. I don't see in the report that they are charging Brian or (HSC was involved other than a shared address), but rather the individuals listed. Just because criminal activity is taking place on your property, but without your knowledge does not always make you responsible.

I'm just saying where the proof that HSC was involved? Brian claims they have involvement with what happened. So far thats the only thing directly related to HSC i've seen.

As i said before, before everyone starts flaming me. I'm trying to satisfy my curiosity and not calling anyone a liar. I want to know more because i too have spent a bit of coin with HSC.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

Usually a police report won't necessarily mention a buisness, but it did mention one of the addresses that HSC uses on it's website, and it does specify who the owner of said property is.

I still don't see a libel connection?

I'm less interested in libel and more interested in the truth about what happened before I send any more money Brians way.

KaoticFdR1

oops fixed
I mean how does it not get any clearer than that?

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I see where you're going with this, but Lane Culver isn't a supplier, Lane is a buisness partner of Brians. Which means he's a representative of HSC. I think Brian is just trying to distance himself from Lane because of the negative publicity. It doesn't change the fact that HSC uses Lanes address as a place of buisnes.

KaoticFdR1

I was wondering since Brian referred to him as a supplier not a partner. I guess I'll stop here till after this matter is resolved, and for input from the parties involved.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

supplier of stolen parts maybe???

Troux

iTrader: (6)

Wow, you guys are quick with the blanket statements. Just because individuals are charged at their workplace doesn't mean the company is guilty. It's entirely possible they were using the shop as their safehouse for keeping the cars (likely unbeknownst to Brian or others), and if you ask me, a place where cutting up cars and removing parts is a part of the daily routine would be a great place to run your chop shop under the radar.

Blaming HSC - and specifically, Brian - for all of this is like when you go into a restaurant and get a lazy waiter, then go tell your friends how the restaurant is horrible and you'll never go there again.

KaoticFdR1

pretty much my whole argument

killalot13601

iTrader: (5)

I think it sucks, Hinson had a bad reputation in the past but it kinda sorta almost got built back up a bit. Now, this happens. Obviously Hinson was not involved, it was not written in there.

No one has ever complained about there car being... stolen when it went in for work there.

Hinson, came and posted, backed up not being involved, nothing more nothing less.

This is not where strippers hang out. We should keep the hear say **** out of it as best as possible. I personal do not own a Hinson product. Looks like I am not entitled to an opinion on his products or his service. One of the few cars he sells parts for are ours, we should be thank-full we have competition over product sales on V8 swaps.
Just don't **** on a mans goat, unless you have tried the milk. That is all.


Chris

jimlab

You won't see any unless Brian is also charged with a crime.

Legally, "Hinson Supercars" doesn't exist beyond a web site, a couple forums, and Brian's imagination. There is no business license for "Hinson Supercars" in Alabama that I've ever been able to discover, and records are available online. By operating out of someone else's facility without a business license, he avoids paying insurance and taxes and may also escape notice by not being a formal employee of the business in question. These are all assumptions, of course, but most likely accurate.

BTW, individuals are charged with crimes and businesses are named in lawsuits. That's another reason you won't see "HSC" named in a criminal investigation.

jimlab

For all intents and purposes, Lane Culver is "HSC". His father owns the shop they work out of and Lane produced all of Brian's parts. Brian is merely the figurehead and "sales" arm of the operation. They've been in "business" together for more than 5 years. How likely do you think it is that Brian was completely ignorant of any wrongdoing on Lane's part, assuming that Lane is in fact guilty of said wrongdoing?

No, this isn't at all like getting a bad waiter and complaining (legitimately) about the poor service at that restaurant.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

No, it would be like going to a restaurant and being served poorly by the co-owner of the restaurant and telling your friends about it. Which, by the way, is neither libel or slander.

Lane isn't just some guy that worked there. The address listed for the location of the crime is also the listed address for HSC. Is it possible Brian was unaware of this? Yes. Is it certain? No.

There are three things missing here to be libel:

1. Valid intent to injure the business.
2. Statements made that are known to be untrue.
3. A highly publicized written decree or statement.

There is no proof that the OP intends to do harm to HSC. The statements made in here "looks like" "it appears" etc. are not absolute statements and are rather conjecture, conjecture cannot constitute libel. Finally, a thread in an obscure section of a web forum that gets a couple hundred daily visits at best (the thread, not the forum) is not sufficient to do the demonstrable harm to the company necessary to require reparations.

Shoot, I can call the newspaper and tell them exactly what's been said here and it's not libel. If they print things like "Hinsson Supercars accused of stealing vehicles" they're not committing libel. If they put up "HINSON SUPERCARS STEALS VEHICLES" without showing reasonable evidence that they can prove and believe it, THEN they're committing libel.

Also of note, if you can prove you researched and believed it (and support it with reasonable evidence), you're welcome to say whatever damaging things you like.

Business (tort) law 101.

Troux

iTrader: (6)

I'm aware Lane is more than a simple employee or affiliate, but wouldn't think he would own a company and name it after a poster boy/salesman. Either way, the metaphor was meant to say that we can't really tell at this point whether it's the fault of an individual or a company as a whole. The fact that Hinson wasn't mentioned (the company or the man) is what made me question how many hands were behind the charges.

I'm not trying to defend the company, just trying to tame the mob mentality that was really sparked by nothing more than assumption and preconception. In the same way, it wouldn't be fair if someone from your building/department was leaking and selling prerelease copies of a new browser/OS that was being developed there, and the media took an arrest address and made your whole department guilty by association.

I got an e-mail from Brian a week ago after I left a message with Seth, updating me on a machine shop order that I'm waiting on. It ain't much, but it's more than would be going on if the business were being investigated as a chop shop, I'd think.

jimlab

Let's start from the top.

There is no company or business called Hinson Supercars. Until Brian gets a business license and/or forms an LLC, "HSC" is as real as unicorn tears from a legal perspective. It's not on anyone's radar because it doesn't exist beyond some web content. Fair enough?

The operation in question consists of two people. One of them makes the welded conversion parts, in his father's place of business, and the other sells them. The person selling the parts was the first to use them and, at first, the only one posting on the V8 RX-7 Forum (formerly TorqueCentral), so his name is associated with them. Call it "brand recognition" if you want to.

I may have prototyped some of my conversion parts myself, but I've never made any pretense about being responsible for final fabrication or production of copies. I've always given full credit to my fabricator, Ryan Butler. People still call them "jimlab" cradles, because it gives them a descriptor to differentiate them from "Hinson" or "Granny's" cradles. They call the parts "jimlab" parts because I'm the one who posted the pictures and information, and that's my alias. Really, this is simple stuff.

People were calling Hinson's conversions parts by his name before he had a web site, before we knew about Lane, and before he started claiming he had patents on his parts... Yes, you can laugh now.

The point being missed is that it's a very, very small operation, and I'm not talking about "HSC". For any of the parties involved to be completely unaware of anything illegal going on in that shop is unlikely. It's possible, but highly unlikely. We're talking about a few guys working out of a shop in Alabama, not AT&T.

However, to my knowledge, Hinson is not and never has been an employee of Lane's father, so he would not (at least immediately) be associated with any activities going on at Lane's father's shop. My sole intent was to illustrate why Brian's name was not (and may never be) associated with this charge. Whether or not he was involved or had knowledge about it is pure conjecture, and not something I was trying to either prove or disprove. Frankly, I don't care. I formed my own conclusions about Brian's morality long ago, based on his own actions.

Fair enough. I still don't agree that the retaurant analogy was applicable or accurate.

Keep in mind that they don't make everything "in house". The bump steer hardware and other parts are sourced from other vendors. Lane just welds pieces of metal together, as far as I know. Sometimes with greater or lesser degrees of success.

KaoticFdR1

Jim and Digital pretty much put an end to the entire argument.

Digital, I'm aware of Tort's from the exact class you just listed. In fact, that class is why I'm taking the LSAT next fall. I can't believe I missed the most obvious words that would totally squash my argument, 'I'd say' (stating it's an opinion and not a fact) from the title. (although 1 & 3 are debatable on your list if the title wasn't an opinion)

Jim, I had no idea that HSC wasn't even a business. That puts a whole new twist on my perception of HSC altogether. Just WOW.

Well gotta go to my marketing class now.
Cheers

caffecapri

Nice response. Hope it clears up soon.

Torque South

Jimlab I am looking at piecing together a V8 FC and FD in the future and would like to compare the availability and pricing of your parts against Hinon and Granny. Do you have a website or catalog? I know that your experience and quality of parts offered (by your fabricator or whatever) may meet or exceed the others, that's why I'm possibly interested for the future. Any info? Thanks.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

Law is an interesting subject; I looked at going into it, but fear I lack the patience to deal with the stupidity prevalent in our legal system.

I'm with you regarding "I say" bit, though without it, it would still be a tough case to prove as it still reeks of speculation.

Jim doesn't fabricate or sell anything, he just funds the design.

www.v8rx7forum.com; there is a sponsor section there; Samberg Rod and Custom is who you want to deal with, they sell the kit based on Jim's original designs. I've installed one, they're top notch and have excellent customer service.

Torque South

Thanks! You think they might throw in a free LS1?