to hell with 20b, hello ls1!! NEED HELP
 

Hey, after reading all of the thread of pettit doing the 20b conversion, i decided to go back to 7's but definitely not with 20b..... LS1 is my new choice!!

How much is it really worth??

for example, lets say i buy this shell:
http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?c...p=y&cardist=741

Is there any difference between a camaro LS1 or a GTO LS1?
Which one you guys reccommend?
what else would i have to buy to get it done.

anyoe has any estimate cost?

Also, when i want to supercharge it, i will have to use a custom supercharger that fits the 7? or i will have to use the supercharger from the car i get the LS1 from?

You'll be looking at a little under $10K for the LS1 purchase & install (doing the wrenching yourself).

10k? that would be with everything? I mean, from a completely empty shell to an LS1 engine with transmision with everything, motor mounts, oil pan, everything.
Anyone who did this before can give me any more details?
Does anyone knows is the west palm Pettit does this swap well?

double post

lol, i just finished reading all that post, btw, how the hell someone sold a clear title fd with new engine for 2k?? WTF

If you are going to pay a shop to do it, you may as well add on another $2-3000 onto that number.

Most of the cost are going to depend on how much you can find an LS1 + tranny for... After that, it's just getting the Hinson stuff and going forth. PM "ebb" here on the forum. He's just about got his swap done and I think his cost are nearing around $9000 (but he's doing all of the wrenching on his side).

good choice!

lol, thx!!

getting a roller for your swap for arround 1-3k isnt that hard. Find a highly modded 7 and part out the drivetran and mods, youll get the majority of your money back, plus a highly moded single turbo will most likely be in better shape than a shell that you find for 5k.

The swap has been priced out by quite a few people
mine was
car (after engine tranny, ect sold).....5000
all mounting fuel,wiring................ 3000
ls1 pull out............... 3500
extra stuff (nut bolts ect) 200
total...............11700
so that will get you a running ls1 fd mine was a little more because of the cam headers,heads, DP nitous and other stuff

Hmm, pretty affordable, about the cost of a stock FD in decent shape.

but, arent these selling for around 20k?

An FD? No, a good one sells for about 12K right now, as indicated by 88IntegraLS.

a good ls1 powered fd pushing like 480 hp and 500 tq, with perfect exterior.
how much u think it would sell?

take a look at this one selling for 24k...

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=400989

I think it would sell for about 30-50% less than it cost to build.

Sorry to nitpick, but I don't want any of the less-experienced car buyers on this forum confused. It is not selling for $24K, the seller is asking $24K OBO. There is a distinct difference between "asking" and "selling." Also note the "OBO" part of the asking price, which stands for "Or Best Offer". Once it sells, then that will be the selling price.

It is usually less expensive to buy somebody else's custom project than to make your own. If you like it, then make an offer.

i know it wont sell for 24, but it may be in the 20k range and you told me that it would sell for around 12k..

well, to get the numbers with an ls1 you just need an after cooled supercharger and a couple of grands more in extra stuff...
so i dunno why u say it would cost me more to build my own

What are you talking about?

He means 12k for a fd, not an ls1 fd. I think one (ls1 fd) sold 6 months back or so for 19k. This may be one case where the car may fetch more than it cost to build, but others for sale are not selling for 20k, high teens is quite possible.

Drop the supercharger for the ls1 fd. Turbocharging is the way to make huge power.

Why not offer him whatever you are willing to pay? He did say that it needed to be sold, and the worst that can happen is that he says no.

Because there is more to a car than a peak horsepower dyno number.

Yes, but you really need twin turbos to properly feed both banks of a V piston engine unless you are just building a drag car in which lag doesn't make as much difference. A supercharger is an inexpensive way to add some boost without the cost and complexity of a twin turbo setup, especially if the owner doesn't care about anything but producing x-amount of peak hp on the dyno.

maybe we are talking about different things, i am building my ls1 fd, i am not looking to buy one.
i said ls1 fd's sell around 20k and you said that they sell at the same price as a decent condition fd (12k)
maybe there was a misunderstanding, i just brought the fact of hp and tq just for you to think about how much "money can high hp and tq get you" ( LS1 powered FD 500+ hp and tq, BUY IT NOW and own a true supermachine) you get what im saying?

He ment a good condition stock fd sells for 12k, I saw a ls1 fd sell for 16k but if wasnt finished and was a steal, it was a bare basic swap at that. Whats all this crap about 500+ hp, finish the swap and then see if you realy need 200 exta hp. Most people wont and will be happy with 350rwhp. I dont think most people that are doing the ls1 swap care about peak hp.

depending on the condition of the car and the components and motor, any running FD whether LS1 or stock rotary TT could sell for anywhere from 5 grand to 30 grand. it depends on paint quality, drivetrain condition, suspension or wheel upgrades and how new the pieces are, what quality work and parts were used in the buildup or is it all stock stuff...

-you could build an LS1FD including the cost of the FD for $12k.
-you buy a well-running stock rotary TT FD for $12k.

either FD could be made into a supercar performer with super expensive wheels, suspension, exterior mods, widebody, etc. that make it worth two or three times that amount.

Is this all I need ls1 eng, trans, motor mounts (k-member, trans member, drive shaft, bump steer), radiator, headers?

Remember I have a completely empty shell.

Some other questions:
AC fits in there too?
Power steering fits?
What about ECU?
When thinking about supercharging it, a supercharger for a pontiac GTO or a camaro wouldnt fit there, or it would?
Would i need a custom supercharger?
Can I fit a FMIC??

You'll need wiring, the rest of the exhaust path completed (between the headers and catback), coolant and heater lines, etc., etc.
The compressor fits, but you'll need new lines, a new drier, a new condensor etc. as the GM system is r-134a, and your FD is likely R-12. And you'll have to wire it and add a relay. The Mazda and GM signals are different.

The pump assembly fits just fine, but you'll need a custom line to mate the PS pump to the rack. Some people think you need something to reduce the line pressure too, but I didn't do that.
GM unit all the way. Buy it with your drivetrain pullout
THe supercharger itself will fit, and the mounting bracket should work, everything else will need to be custom.
Nope, the headunits are the same regardless of platform.
Yes you can

wingsfan, u should be a teacher, thx for the help!! :P
u got all your stuff from hinson?

I am, sort of. :) I work for the University of Texas.

I got the mounting hardware, bump steer correction, torque arm and driveshaft from them. Everything else I did on my own.

Is there anywhere in particular everyone is buying their motors from?? I would like to make sure i am getting a setup from a dependable source....or is everyone getting them from EBay/Junkyards??

oh, i cant weld sh*t..
good for you

An FMIC would work with a centrifugal (Paxton & Vortech) or Lysholm (Whipple) supercharger, but an FMIC would be really lousy with a Roots (Eaton) blower. The Roots blower is better off with an ALIC, or you can just run it without an intercooler since Roots blowers are only intended for low boost, anyway.

The GM unit may not work well with forced induction. You may want to see if anybody else has had luck with this before starting your project.

:bigthumb:

It's kind of a moot point since thre's no roots style blower for the f-body. There's one for the vette that will fit the motor, but it's never clearing our hoods and IIRC it needs the FBW c5 throttle body to work, which would be a major headache to adapt.

Best bet with a blower is to run an ATI procharger, or a Vortech unit. Turbo is the better choice though for FI, but I'm more than a bit biased. :)

It will work just fine. You just need the right software to reburn the pcm.

http://www.hptuners.com/


Early tuning results with 3 bar remapped PCM
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258350

They had trouble keeping the wheel planted on the dyno but made 809 rwhp and775rwtq

http://www.ls1speed.com/pictures/t762.jpg

Need is such a relative term there. The turbo buicks are V6s and they use singles.

Most people in the LS1 community run single turbos because of pacakgng limitations. They seem to work just fine, and to say they're only good for drag racing setups is just flat out wrong. There are plenty examples of single kits out there that are great for everyday use.

A 5.7L engine moves enough air to where lag isn't a real problem, so street use isn't a real problem either.

*edit* BTW, the fastest turbo LS1 these days is a twin setup (8.29s @ 170), so I'm not disagreeing that twins aren't preferrable, just that we (FDs) have major packaging constraints that make them a poor choice.

roots sux for the type of setup im expecting to run, i am already into vortech aftercooled supercharger which gives you around 150hp and tq boost, with a stock setup.

do u reccomend turbo instead of supercharger?

i was told for an ls1 fd turbo kits needed too much of custom fitment, but the supercharging was easier, just in need of customizing the piping.

i was told GM works good with LS1.

i have a friend who is selling me the aftercooled vortech SC made for a Z28 00+ for 2800.. figured it was a good price..

If your talking ls1 FD that supercharger kit is gonna be hella custom to get it to fit. their is one guy that got an ATI charger in the ls1FD but he cut the firewall and moved the engine back and maybe a little more modification. Either way you go with these cars its conna be custom

I noticed the guy who moved his firewall had the supercharger pulley facing the toward the rear of the car. That necessitated moving the firewall for space up front. Would it be possible to mount it the other way around where the a/c compressor is located? I don't know anything of the dimensions or what side the intake goes in so I am just questioning if it would make it possible without moving the firewall.

Does anyone have pics of the guy that crammed the ATI blower into his FD? I've never heard of this and would love to take a peek at what was involved.

try searching on torquecentral under the name cdk4219, he doesnt post much these days but checks often. the supercharger post was make when i first signed up @ TC around 06-2003 if that helps

hey
did a quick search and found the thread
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=9896

hmm, looks squeeshy...
maybe making the motor mounts lower, lowering the engine and making all the piping on top?
the ls1 engine sits nicely above grounbd, maybe with a strut bar it wont be any problem pulling it down a lil bit.

Well, there's not much room in there, so regardless of what you do it will be a tight fit. A turbo will fit behind your radiator just fine though, provided you use pusher style fans. You're only a set of custom manifolds away.

Lowering the engine is going to be tough. You already have to drop the steering rack about 5/8", and then compensate for the increased bump steer with adjustable tie rod ends. There's only so much that those can do though, and with the Hinson setup it looks pretty close to taxed to me.

My advice would be to just get the motor in the car first, and then figure out where you want to go from there. IMHO making plans based on pictures you've seen on the internet is a bad idea. It's much better to get in there and actually measure the space, and get a feel for how much room you have.

screw that! my advice is to buy an FC!!!!! there's tons of room in the FC engine bay after an LS1 swap! slap on some widebody fenders and go racing.

I thought that someone(or more than 1) was in the 7s with an LSx, full race of course, no???

Packaging? ;) The twins will fit.......:bigthumb:

Ronnie Duke is in the 7s with a supercharged C5R block, IIRC. Sort of a second cousin to the LS1.

I have yet to see a 7s true LSx motor, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that I haven't seen it. I might have missed it, or they may not post on the boards.

There will likely be a handful of LSx based cars in the 7s this year as the racing season gets started. It's still early in the year, and some people are still under snow. :(

A) You're not using an LSx motor
B) You kissed the stock hood goodbye awhile ago. :)
C) Anything is possible with enough money thrown at it.

I'm in a long haul for 20b swap in an FD. But seen many of Hinson's LS1 FDs and man.. Everytime I see one, i'm thinking about doing one.. Good gas miles and good torque.

Just to plug Hinson Super Cars, They do an awesome job. I've seen several cars they've built and they all look to be done right. I've also seen one Ls1 swap that someone did themselves and it was crap.. ended up going to Hinson's to be cleaned up... I believe that car was built in Miami, FL..

I'm more and more leaning toward LS1.. maybe once my daily goes dead (Acura) I'll consider LS1.

Hinson and his crew will be at the Deals gap event in April.. Come out and talk to them.. They will be bringing a surprise car.. most likely.

1. True
2. True
3. True

But didnt hinson JUST post pics of their twin setup???

Yup, and you can probably see that it's not the most street friendly, nor nondestructive build ever.

It's got a couple things going against it.

First, they cut the firewall, which is something I'm not willing to.

Second, they're running an Air-to-Water setup, which is great for a quick trip down the strip where you can just add some ice to the container, but pretty impractical for daily use.

Lastly, IIRC he's running a powerglide, and there's no way I want to jet around town with two gears. :)

I'm just saying it's impractical, not impossible. Different strokes for different folks. I'll stick with my single, intact firewall, and an air-to-air with methanol injection, thank you. :D

How's this? :)

the fmic isnt really necessary for an ls1, right?
how big is that?
looks sooo nice though

Correct. The intercooler doesn't care what engine or turbo it's associated with. :p:

24" x 12" x 3" core (31.5" end tank to end tank)

Thanks.