rx7vadim

since the parts are cheaper, and a block will last alot longer then a rotary block would.

MDD0101

um.. a lot of people have. you cant take the heart out of the beast tho.. if you want piston engine i say get a car meant to have pistons.. dont ruin another rx7. not that you are..it just upsets me deep down haha

88durel

iTrader: (4)

that topic is tottally ment for a different board.

but positves are

same gas milage with a v8
twice the power
cheaper parts


negatives
they wear out more..
no one will be supprised when you beat them with a v8.... everyone will when you say it has no pistons and is a 1.3L
rotarys sound nicer
and there not as cramped

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

wear out more? where are you guys reading this into it? i have seen a number of 250k rotaries still on the road. yes you probably should reseal them at 150k but if you are mechanically knowledgable on a rotary you can do the whole job for less than $500 and go for another 200k miles on the original parts less maybe the apex seals.

now if you use cermet housings and ceramic seals well then you probably could get upward of 400-500k out of an engine.

rx7vadim

the bearings wont last 500k, and how do u know those 250k rotaries have been rebiult before.

SayNoToPistons

^ why would someone lie about their rotary going over 200k?... i hope this thread and your post was a joke.

rx7vadim

i hope to get 1 year of my current rebuilt, n/a motor

Sgt. Pepper

I think about an LS1 swap sometimes. I'm just too poor to perform the swap And I love the rotary too much
They sound beastly though.

But don't worry though, if I were ever to do an LS1 swap it would firstly be into a 240Z.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

how many rotary engines have you had apart?

i can't count how many OEM engines i have split open but only after customer negligence, many motors including my daily beater have close to 200k without having been cracked open yet. the bearings are usually barely broken in on the n/a engines even after 100k miles.

the apex seals and rotor housings are the main wear points. currently i am finding many of the old oil seals are failing with age though, 20 years is a good while for a rubber seal to hold up to 300F+ daily.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

You need to learn how to rebuild better then.

cpubugs

^^ LOL..... Agreed. The whole design and one of the many great things about a rotary is that you have a total of 3 moving parts. Less chance for failure. You can reach higher RPMs with lower stress to the engine. So I don't see why it is so suprising to see one last 200 k + If one has been babied since it was brand new I could see it lasting much longer. If you put any car rotary or piston on a service scheduel like people do with your high end cars like Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, ect any car can last forever. Fact is there is more to just changing your oil and filters every 3000 miles.

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

Dumbest lie in the history of the automobile.

If there are only 3 moving parts, where are the apex seals and springs, sitting in the glove box? It's like saying valvesprings don't move in a pushrod motor because they only compress and expand, they don't actually turn. Last time I checked, a number of things in a rotary engine moved. Including several that FREQUENTLY CAUSE ROTARY ENGINES TO FAIL.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

In boosted applications, yes. N/A rotaries will run forever with their 3 moving parts .

Nihilanthic

My biggest gripe is that anything a rotary does is only relevant becaues its a rotary that did it.

I really dont CARE about that. I want performance the way I want it without any idiosyncratsies or the fact that under boost its gonna only last 50K miles on average. "beating with a rotary" or "with a '1.3' liter" doesnt matter, being SPECIAL doesnt matter, and emotional/subjective arguements that sound more like someone in a doo-rag talking a bout his gang/culture/mama really dont matter either.

Its a GREAT chassis that you can basically do whatEVER the hell you want to do with it and excel at it, and its really a shame that no domestic comes close to it (Especially in bang/buck) except for the corvette, which has GM's LEGENDARY lack of build quality.

Honestly if I could find a vette cheap Id be playing with one, but because FCs are so cheap, and a STEAL for what you get, how could I not use one? I love the chassis's performance but I dont want a rotarys powerband or limitations - and yes, it has plenty of them. If Mazda put 20Bs in american RX7s maybe it would be different, but they didn't, so here we are.

Merc63

As was asked in another thread, do you think so little of the car OUTSIDE that engine that it is no better than any Mustang or Camaro (or Corvette) at anything NEAR it's price range? Maybe those of us that have done the swap love everything about the RX7 OTHER than teh engine (and many of us, myself included still like rotary engines). The RX7, even with the V8, looks better, is lighter, is built better, looks better, has better ergonomics, looks better, has better suspension parts and brakes, looks better, and is simply a better overall package even without the rotary. Oh, and it looks better, too.


BTW, besides the eccentric shaft and the rotors themselves, there is all the timing gear, distributor(s), oil pump, water pump, seal springs, etc that move in a rotary engine, too.

and 88durel, what do you mean by "and there not as cramped" (and I don't think that chainsaws strapped to your ears sounds "nicer" but that's just me. After almost a decade of playing with weedwhacker-sounding racing rotaries, it's not my favorite sound in the world)

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

My FD has no distributor and no moving parts in the timing gear. We're talking internal moving parts, so there goes the oil and water pump. seal springs? that's debatable. they're not large mechanical moving parts, and they are only failure points if you do something really stupid. So, we're back to three moving parts.

88IntegraLS

Moving parts don't matter, real world horsepower:fuel consumption, horespower:doller, horesepower:power delivery time lag, horsepower:initial investment, horsepower:rebuild/mile, and horsepower:fuel smell ratios doo.

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

Ok, that's the SECOND biggest lie in the history of the automobile. I had a base model 86 RX7 that was bone stock save a catback and didn't make 76k miles before it lost compression in the rear rotor. An apex seal came apart and destroyed the rotor AND housing. A LOT more than 3 moving pieces came out of that motor when I took it apart.

Anyone care to try for a third lie?

darktritium

^^^ So what is it that you really bring to the boards?

Mechanic

ahem, one phrase, wow your life sucks.

just because it happened to you, doesnt mean that it happens to all rotaries.

no sorry, i am not taking any sides, because i work on pistons all day long, and work on rotaries on my own time. both have their own advantage, and just because you blew one too many engines doesnt mean that everyone else blows them.

well, how many moving peices are in a piston engine...
i see them all day long and 6 days a week. i seen more bent valves in 80k miles pistons then i see broken apex seals. reason being? lack of maintence, interferance engines (hunduh) can someone say timing belt go bye bye?

not for nothing, there is so much r&d in the piston history, it makes our wankel engine a thing from the past. then... we get into renesis. NOW, if i remember right, the thing doesnt have perhipheral exhaust ports. what can possible happen to the apex seals... humm.... idk.

its personal preference, just because someone else thinks rotaries are superior, you dont have to try to imply that you are right and everyone else that drives a manufacture provided motor rx7 because it came that way, is wrong.

ok make it fair, rotaries have 3 MAJOR moving parts 2 rotors and a eccen. shaft,

v8 have 8 pistons, 8connecting rods, cam and crank shaft, and x amount of (x depending on motor) valves, so what? whats your point? i took out the consideration of valve springs and piston rings and push rods if used, rocker arms if used...

now what?

what is he lying about? am i lying? no. are you lying? no.

76k motor blew on you, nice, first owner? if so, i guess its just your luck.. if not... maybe someone for got to change the oil and warm up the engine..

oh well, i'd love to rock a hemi, i personally think they are great. hehe... but i would love to keep the car with what it came with, SO.... bottom line... WHO CARES?

forgot to mention, why are you lying? you are lying about the biggest lie in auto history because it doesnt affect anything, it cant be that big of a lie.

Nihilanthic

Just like to make a few points here...

Whether or not an engine has had the R&D behind it as a competetor is no excuse for it not performing as good. Its WHY it doesnt, it doesnt mean it somehow doesnt have to cut the mustard any less.

Oh, and the total # of moving parts doesnt matter, its cost effectiveness and reliability. Sure, NA rotaries last a long time if stock or only mildly modded, buuut...

• Their output isn't that great
• Their SPECIFIC output is pathetic
• Their MPG sucks, and run on the rich side stock
• They're not the most practical motors around becuase of the need to rev high, the gas sucking, no torque, and the obscurity of them making it hard to get parts and service for them if something DOES go down.

You tell me, what would you rather use for reliability. A 200 hp v6, or a rotary? Whats really funny is if you even the playing field, a 200 hp v6 in a FC = 14.5 second car, with gearing WAY too short for its powerband! Low hp/liter = reliability dude, and thats responsible for a lot of the NA rotary's reliability.

They can perform, but that means carbs or a standalone, porting, and a loss of reliability, especially with turbos (the seals only last so long, knocking or not) and issues such as knocking and parts replacement if something does go awry can't be ignored.

Rotaries have their niche, but a lot of their 'accomplishments' seem only relevant when you look at it as something a rotary did, not 'an engine' did

darktritium

Yet another person I have to ask...what do you bring to the boards?

88IntegraLS

Lol, nice rotor pendant.

My boss and I were pondering titanium rotors the other day. Titanium is extremely tough, has a low coefficient of expansion unlike aluminum (which, by the way, has roughly double the CE of cast iron and would cause sealing to be harder than it already is inside the rotor combustion chamber), somewhat high melting point, and would make excellent marketing material for a rotary engine manufacturer. Now if only we could get three rotor NA Ti rotor rotaries from Mazda, like maybe a 20Renesis...... I'd think the tables could turn. What do u think?

custom13B

I like the rotary engine and think its unique and interesting. However I'll never own another I got tired of repairing and special ordering parts . I also think theres roome for improvment of the rotary design. The reneses showed it can be improved upon. I also think that Mazda is capeable of making a better designed rotary with different porting,different materials..better balanced. But by the time thats complete and all the R&D money and it has to pass strict SMOG it may not be cost effective,thier already expensive lil buggers to rebuild. I'll stick to my V8 thank you,and if anyone here dosnt like it too bad.

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

The ignore feature, if you can figure out how to use it instead of just trolling.



I'm actually quite satisfied, thanks. I agree it doesn't happen to everyone. My point was simply that NA rotaries that are left untouched can still have apex seal problems that cause the motor to come apart. My personal experience proved a common statement wrong. Period.