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386 RWHP @ 13PSI, Turbo-NA w/GT4088R, Aux Bridge, etc.

Old 09-06-07 | 12:35 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Valkyrie
I'm curious as to why you didn't dyno it from idle... just to see how it reacts from going to full vacuum to full boost.
Showing the torque curve from 3K and up just seems like cheating.
No reason really...The first bunch of dyno runs were started about 2.5K, but the last set were done from 3K upwards.

I don't know if I've ever dyno'd a rotary from idle.
Old 09-06-07 | 02:41 PM
  #27  
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Ive never seen any engine done from idle. They are always brought up to 3rd gear and then floored from about 2-2.5k.

So no TII parts huh. Well, you're brave, ill give you that. Sounds like a big ford 9" is in your future......
Old 09-06-07 | 03:54 PM
  #28  
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don't be too stubborn. A $100 used T2 rear will be a hell of alot smarter than custom halfshafts and some Kaaz LSD stuffed into the N/A rear. I know your a smart guy, just loose the N/A idea thats burned into your head and go the cheap effective route.

It's not like you are gonna be in the Guiness Book of World Records for the fastest all N/A turbo Rx-7
Old 09-06-07 | 05:13 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
I'm not sure what that means. Are you saying I'm wrong? Or right? Because there are a lot of 11 second cars running the NA diff...
I wouldn't trust an NA diff behind any serious amount of power. If you are cleanly breaking the tires loss it may last for awhile, but if you get any sort of traction or wheelhop, its likely going to eat away quickly. The only NA diffs that I have seen lasting on V8 swaps are with an automatic transmissions with relatively low power, and even then their days are numbered.

Any NA (and quite a few TIIs) that I have seen take "alot of abuse from a v8 swap" has ended up in pieces. Suit yourself if you want to try it.
Old 09-06-07 | 10:58 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by yusoslo
don't be too stubborn. A $100 used T2 rear will be a hell of alot smarter than custom halfshafts and some Kaaz LSD stuffed into the N/A rear. I know your a smart guy, just loose the N/A idea thats burned into your head and go the cheap effective route.

It's not like you are gonna be in the Guiness Book of World Records for the fastest all N/A turbo Rx-7
Old 09-07-07 | 08:02 AM
  #31  
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^^ you know you want to admidt it makes more sense, but I guess Pride isnt Free
Old 09-07-07 | 08:08 AM
  #32  
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I believe Aaron's after the fact that so many people are against it.

Would a TII diff work and be stronger? Obviously, the guy's not handicapped. But can an N/A rear end take some SERIOUS power and stand up to an awful lot of abuse? He's proving that right now. All the people who tell the newbies around here "don't bother leaving your N/A rear in the car after the TII swap since it won't hold the power" are eating their words while Aaron burns around twon with 400bhp blazing through his N/A diff. Will a TII diff take more? Sure. But this is holding up quite well. And even a TII diff has its limits. Locals are busting axle cups on hard launches with slicks at Aaron's power level. So why bother going that route since it'll break anyways? (same mentality as the N/A rear to begin with....you see?)

The car is a turbo'd N/A I don't know what's so hard to understand
Old 09-07-07 | 09:08 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by classicauto
I believe Aaron's after the fact that so many people are against it.

Would a TII diff work and be stronger? Obviously, the guy's not handicapped. But can an N/A rear end take some SERIOUS power and stand up to an awful lot of abuse? He's proving that right now. All the people who tell the newbies around here "don't bother leaving your N/A rear in the car after the TII swap since it won't hold the power" are eating their words while Aaron burns around twon with 400bhp blazing through his N/A diff. Will a TII diff take more? Sure. But this is holding up quite well. And even a TII diff has its limits. Locals are busting axle cups on hard launches with slicks at Aaron's power level. So why bother going that route since it'll break anyways? (same mentality as the N/A rear to begin with....you see?)

The car is a turbo'd N/A I don't know what's so hard to understand
its all in how you drive the car. things break when you race. If you launch with a n/a rear and slicks something will break. Why would you race a 400hp car without slicks???
Old 09-07-07 | 09:09 AM
  #34  
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Lots of reasons. I ran 18" rims with 255 tires when I raced my 400hp TII. Hooked nicely actually....

back on topic...............---->
Old 09-07-07 | 10:09 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by yusoslo
don't be too stubborn. A $100 used T2 rear will be a hell of alot smarter than custom halfshafts and some Kaaz LSD stuffed into the N/A rear. I know your a smart guy, just loose the N/A idea thats burned into your head and go the cheap effective route.
If I wanted a TII, I would have bought a TII or done the TII swap. It would have been a bit easier then what I've done so far.

I considered using the TII diff, but why? Most of them are high mileage, and getting to the point where they are just plain worn out (as are many of the TII transmissions as well...) anyway. If I'm going to have a diff rebuilt, why would I not just stick with the NA diff and fill it with superior aftermarket parts? Philosophically it's far more in line with with I've been doing with the car so far and it's going to be far better then a TII unit. Besides, at more then 400 HP the TII parts start to get a bit delicate as well...So the choice boils down to starting with an NA diff and having it rebuilt with new stuff, or starting with a TII diff and having it rebuilt with new stuff. No advantage either way except the fact that the NA unit is a direct bolt in. Then if the half-shafts break, I just have new direct replacements fabbed up and I'm good to go...

Originally Posted by rosey
Any NA (and quite a few TIIs) that I have seen take "alot of abuse from a v8 swap" has ended up in pieces. Suit yourself if you want to try it.
I've been putting big power in front of NA drivetrains for the past 7 years and have not had a single failure.

zbrown is launching his GT42 powered REW car on the anti-lag using an NA rear end and slicks.

Originally Posted by classicauto
I believe Aaron's after the fact that so many people are against it.
Partly. I like to mess with people. To this day I still get at least one PM per day that says I can't turbocharge the NA. Could have fooled me...

Would a TII diff work and be stronger? Obviously, the guy's not handicapped. But can an N/A rear end take some SERIOUS power and stand up to an awful lot of abuse? He's proving that right now. All the people who tell the newbies around here "don't bother leaving your N/A rear in the car after the TII swap since it won't hold the power" are eating their words while Aaron burns around twon with 400bhp blazing through his N/A diff.
Hell, when the car was NA I was doing 8K clutch dumps on slicks at the track. I broke my "unbreakable" driveshaft twice.

Will a TII diff take more? Sure. But this is holding up quite well. And even a TII diff has its limits. Locals are busting axle cups on hard launches with slicks at Aaron's power level.
Bingo. Either way I need to fill a diff with aftermarket parts so there's no point in starting with the TII pumpkin over the NA unit.

The car is a turbo'd N/A I don't know what's so hard to understand
If they hate this, they are going to despise me for my brake setup... And transmission selection when the NA unit finally dies...
Old 09-07-07 | 04:35 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
Bingo. Either way I need to fill a diff with aftermarket parts so there's no point in starting with the TII pumpkin over the NA unit.
The TII diff has a larger, and stronger 8" ring gear. The LSD unit used in the S4 TII is also nearly indestructible, they are commonly used as an upgrade for FD's torsen unit, and I have never seen or heard of one breaking, possibly because other things will break much sooner than the LSD unit can reach its limit. They can also be rebuilt if you are want to make sure its fresh and grabs hard.

Do what you want, I'm not trying to argue with you, just saying, I wouldn't want an NA diff in my car, in fact, the TII diff is on it way out as soon as I get some custom axles for my new rear made up, although, I have other reasons, besides strength to go with a different rear end.

Since you mentioned V8 swaps, it may not be a bad idea to take a few pages out of their book, a pinion snubber and/or a diff anchoring bracket will go a long way to help from tearing the front mount off the subframe. The stub shafts and ring gear will then be the most likely things to break. Stub shafts are fairly random, but you'll likely take a few teeth out of the ring gear before it comes completely apart, so just listen for it howling.
Old 09-07-07 | 04:58 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by rosey
The LSD unit used in the S4 TII is also nearly indestructible
Then you know no people who run real power I've personally watched 3 S4 TII diff's give up the ghost at Toronto Motorsports park. One of them in a pretty spectacular manor @ half track.....and I'm not there very regularly either.

Originally Posted by rosey
and I have never seen or heard of one breaking
Read above statement And if you don't believe me, come up to the track and ask the prep team who had to scour the around for 20 minutes picking up/sweeping chunks of ring gear
Old 09-07-07 | 05:00 PM
  #38  
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Damnm, that much power in a turboed n/a. I went the opposite way with a tii drivetrain and n/a rotors. So far its doing awesome at 19 psi on pump gas (93 though). But yours looks hella good doing it.
Old 09-07-07 | 08:07 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by classicauto
Then you know no people who run real power I've personally watched 3 S4 TII diff's give up the ghost at Toronto Motorsports park. One of them in a pretty spectacular manor @ half track.....and I'm not there very regularly either.



Read above statement And if you don't believe me, come up to the track and ask the prep team who had to scour the around for 20 minutes picking up/sweeping chunks of ring gear
Reread my post...the LSD units are generally the strongest part of the diff, the ring gear is certainly not. I've seen the diff housing crack in half, and tons of broken ring gears, I've still yet to see a broken S4 TII LSD unit...not saying it hasn't happened, just saying they are damn tough from what I've seen.
Old 09-08-07 | 12:43 AM
  #40  
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plz post when your stock differential mount rips in half
Old 09-08-07 | 10:17 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by rosey
The TII diff has a larger, and stronger 8" ring gear. The LSD unit used in the S4 TII is also nearly indestructible,
Nearly, yes. But I've see a few pop. Generally the case cracks at the pinion and then all sorts of destruction happens. Or the half-shaft flange shears off...

The whole concept of the car is turbo-NA, so if I am going to swap a diff it's going to be with something totally custom and not based on TII parts.

Since you mentioned V8 swaps, it may not be a bad idea to take a few pages out of their book, a pinion snubber and/or a diff anchoring bracket will go a long way to help from tearing the front mount off the subframe.
Yep, that's next on the list. Next spring I'm going to drop the subframe and with with urethane bushings all around, with the pinion snubber.

Originally Posted by PvillKnight7
plz post when your stock differential mount rips in half
Posts like this remind me of 7 years ago when people would say "plz post when your engine blows up".

I'm not saying the NA diff won't blow up, but at 500 RWHP the TII diff will too.
Old 09-08-07 | 02:44 PM
  #42  
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Keep up the good work Aaron, I love to see the progress. What a beast that car has become.
Old 09-09-07 | 09:41 AM
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Good work!
Old 09-09-07 | 04:14 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
I'm not saying the NA diff won't blow up, but at 500 RWHP the TII diff will too.
That of course depends on the application, we run turbo diffs at 500 HP with zero problems on road courses. Drag Launches CAN certainly be quite a bit harder on drive train parts. But, for those who dont drag thier cars regularly the TII and FD units are VERY stout. Certainly nobody can argue they ARE NOT stronger than the NA FC and FB units...

I think the weaker link in both turbo and non turbo cars is the transmission. Again the turbo unit is more stout but even 300 RWHP can grenade one......seen it multiple times.
Old 09-10-07 | 08:46 AM
  #45  
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very nice!

is this on 9.4 or 9.7 rotors?

next time can you have them turn off the shading and the curve smoothing?
Old 09-10-07 | 09:37 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by RockLobster
That of course depends on the application, we run turbo diffs at 500 HP with zero problems on road courses. Drag Launches CAN certainly be quite a bit harder on drive train parts. But, for those who dont drag thier cars regularly the TII and FD units are VERY stout. Certainly nobody can argue they ARE NOT stronger than the NA FC and FB units...
That's sort of the point...Depends on what you are doing with the car. I fully expect to break either diff when launching the car on the anti-lag with a set of slicks. But during lapping days (if I ever manage to actually get out there...) I won't be worried in the least....

[QUOTE=patman;7318317]very nice!
is this on 9.4 or 9.7 rotors?
[quote]

9.4:1

next time can you have them turn off the shading and the curve smoothing?
Sure, but next time will likely be next year, so I don't know if I'll remember.
Old 09-29-07 | 05:38 PM
  #47  
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wow aaron very impressive im happy to see what youve accomplished if you dont mind me askin what are your et's at the 1/4?
Old 10-01-07 | 02:00 AM
  #48  
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Thumbs up

Very nice run's, really decent power.


That's a bad-ss FC
Old 10-01-07 | 10:32 AM
  #49  
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nice results.

When I was making around that power level I was starting to have traction problems in 3rd, with an LSD...

If you plan on hitting up st. thomas this year and want to borrow my slicks just let me know, I see 11's in your future
Old 10-01-07 | 11:57 AM
  #50  
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Why are HP and TQ crossing each other at 6k? HP is based on TQ and they always cross each other at 5,252. Something is up with how the dyno is setup...

HP=TQ * rpm/5,252.


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