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14.0 @104 on stock turbo; also, why you can't run 16 pounds of boost on it!

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14.0 @104 on stock turbo; also, why you can't run 16 pounds of boost on it!

Old 04-10-10, 04:40 PM
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14.0 @104 on stock turbo; also, why you can't run 16 pounds of boost on it!

I just completed a full turbo swap in my car a few weeks ago an decided to take it to the track. It is a bone stock motor and turbo, with a RB 2.5" downpipe and presilencer to Apex N1 catback. I also have a haltech on it but it is still running the base tune, so its super conservative. Since this is an s4 turbo with the stock wastegate, it is useless. I am spiking to 16 pounds of boost, but it runs fine thanks to the haltech. The tires at BFG G-force sports, so nothing too sticky but not too hard either. I got 2 runs in before I was kicked off for leaking coolant. Not that it mattered because any faster and I would need a helmet, and I left mine at home.

The first run was a 14.24 @102.3 I had a 2.54 60' time because I spun the tires and had to back off.
The second run was a 14.05 @104.1 Again I had a 2.5 60' because this time I bogged the launch bad. I also wound the gears out too far since I'm used to my NA that I ran to 8k. I figure with a good launch I should be in the mid 13's, which isn't bad for exentially nothing but a new exhaust and an ECU that can compensate for the extra boost.

Now for the kicker: why you SHOULD NOT do this, even if you can. I ran logs on both runs, and my intake temps hit over 100C, or about 220 degrees Fahrenheit. Again, since this is such a conservative tune and its running so rich I was OK, but it is highly not recommended. I'm about to pull the turbo off to port it now, after seeing that.
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Old 04-11-10, 10:23 AM
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100C intake temps?? this is with the IAT sensor in the factory TB elbow location? I believe the Haltech sensors are GM open element (Fast responding)style.

holy **** dude. After a hard run in the summer I might hit 50C temps, measured at the TB elbow with a fast responding Triumph sensor. Most of the time it is low 40s IAT when it's warm out. That's with a T04R at a little less than 17psi, with a FMIC.
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Old 04-11-10, 11:16 AM
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Yes, that is with the Haltech IAT in the stock location in the TB inlet. I still have the top mount, but I think most of it is due to the turbo being way past its efficiency range. I don't really want to mess with a front mount, but I do plan on running methanol injection in the very near future.
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Old 04-11-10, 03:58 PM
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i wanted to know how much rwhp your slapping down with almost all OEM parts
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Old 04-11-10, 09:27 PM
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My guess is something in mid 200's but I thats just a wild guess since I've never had it dynoed. When I made this run it was in the high 70's to low 80's, and I was quite heat soaked. I looked at some other logs and saw that similar runs on the street yielded intake temps more like 75-80 C. Not good, but not as bad.

One of other VERY important things I didn't mention is that I am running 1680 secondaries. Its major overkill for what I'm going, but I plan on getting a large turbo in a few years so I decided to just spend a little extra on some appropriately sized injectors. Without these and the haltech to control them, I would certainly have blown my motor.
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Old 04-12-10, 07:57 AM
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Yeah 16 psi on the factory turbo + stock intercooler = very, very hot air
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Old 04-12-10, 09:57 AM
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water injection is your friend. mine stays at around 40C and never reaches 50C. even with stock top mount.
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Old 04-12-10, 10:45 AM
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With the ported wastegate can you take some logs of your air temps running at spring pressure? I'm curious what IAT's you're seeing with stock turbo and stock boost levels. I wonder how hot the temps are at that location from the factory.
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Old 04-12-10, 11:29 AM
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Assuming I do that, I will certainly let you know. The damn gaskets are so expensive I hate pulling it off just to port it when I want to upgrade it anyway.

What do you think about reusing the gaskets? They're copper aren't they?
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Old 04-12-10, 02:21 PM
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The exhaust gaskets are, yes. They're pretty high quality and you can reuse them if they look to be in good condition. It's the intake manifold gaskets that can't really be reused (except the metal FD UIM gasket) unless there are very few miles on them.
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Old 04-12-10, 05:03 PM
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thats awesome.

I did a 14.3 at 98.13 mph, my 60 foot was 2.2 with shitty fuzion zri at the rear. Lost traction everytime I shifted except 4th gear. This was on 13-14 psi. Ran the car 2 weeks ago. Now its down for a turbo upgrade which I am hoping will get me into the 13s hahaha

many metal alloy gaskets can be reused many times. Unless its soft metal.
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Old 04-12-10, 09:19 PM
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i got an 88t2 that had at the time stock ecu rtek1.7 chipped garrett t04b 780 primaries and 1000 secondaries venom 255 fp and rats nest pulled and all blockoff plates installed modded tb and fuzion htr+ tires or something like that rear primary wasnt firing either so i had to launch at 4500 to keeo from bogging engine best time i ran was a 13.9 in quarter mile oh and stock tmic and at 13 psi also like 2.1 60ft managed a 1.8 60 ft but clutch was slipping and ran like a 14.20 oh yea and full rb turbo back exhaust

Last edited by vato2000taco; 04-12-10 at 09:21 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 04-12-10, 09:40 PM
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I chirped 2nd gear pretty good on the 2nd run. I just need to do some practice runs to get it down. I'm currently chasing down a bastard of an electrical problem thanks to a hack-job wiring harness I got when I bought the used Haltech, so its not up for any more runs anyway until I get that fixed.
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Old 04-13-10, 11:49 AM
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Nice runs guys! 14 seconds is very respectable on a stockish settup like that.
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Old 04-13-10, 02:01 PM
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kind of crazy though how the new V6 Mustangs are faster than that stock
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Old 04-13-10, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by arghx View Post
kind of crazy though how the new V6 Mustangs are faster than that stock
What are you talking about? I don't think so...

2009 mustang Quote from Edmunds:

The Mustang V6 is powered by a 4.0-liter V6 that produces 210 hp and 240 pound-feet of torque. Given this output, fuel economy is disappointing at 16 mpg city/24 mpg highway and 19 mpg combined -- the same as Ford's 262-hp Flex SUV. The Mustang GT features a 4.6-liter V8 with 300 hp and 320-lb-ft output worthy of its muscle-car looks and heritage. With a manual transmission, the GT goes from zero to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds and clears the quarter-mile in 14.3 seconds. Its fuel economy is 15 mpg city/23 mpg highway and 18 mpg combined.

2010 mustang Quote from Edmunds:

The rear-wheel-drive 2010 Ford Mustang comes standard with a five-speed manual transmission, and a five-speed automatic is optional. The Mustang V6 is powered by a 4.0-liter V6 that produces 210 hp and 240 lb-ft of torque, while the Mustang GT boasts a 4.6-liter V8 with 315 hp and 325 lb-ft of torque (335 lb-ft on premium fuel, which is not required). Expect a 0-60-mph sprint in the low 5-second range for the GT model, with the V6 trailing its brawnier brother by a considerable margin. Despite the performance gap, the archaic V6 is barely better on gas than the thirsty GT -- last year's Mustang V6 was rated at 16 mpg city/24 mpg highway and 19 mpg combined (17/26/20 mpg with the manual transmission), while the GT came in at 15/22/18 (15/23/18 with the manual).

http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/et_calculator.html
210hp moving a 3400lb car down the 1320 = ~14.74
And we know that this thing isn't pushing 210 RWHP. Sorry arghx...

Good times OP, but way hot temps!
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Old 04-13-10, 03:03 PM
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Actually he's right - check out the 2011 Mustang V6. It has a 3.7L V6 with 305 HP (and 31 MPG!). The 1/4 mile time I saw was 13.7 seconds. Granted, I could do that with a good launch, but I can't get 31 on the highway.
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Old 04-14-10, 01:53 PM
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^ Wow seriously? That is quite impressive for Ford who had underpowered the mustang since like forever.
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Old 04-14-10, 02:28 PM
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Yeaaaahhh. Whateva. I'll believe it when I see it...
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Old 04-14-10, 03:12 PM
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Its already been tested by magazines... They aren't making it up. Its still won't handle anything like a real sports car, though.
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Old 04-15-10, 07:55 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qqzgyy3jBE

start at 1:53. 1/4 mile in [email protected] . That's probably the fastest run you would ever get on a healthy stock series 6 FD. I don't trust these supposed V6 Mustang WHP numbers though, K&N is probably the last dyno in the world I would trust for anything considering that their marketing is based on inflated HP numbers.
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Old 04-15-10, 08:09 PM
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Its a dynojet so assuming its calibrated the numbers should be ok. K&N probably just pulls numbers out their *** for their HP claims.
My problem is that he is quoting FWHP using a chassis dyno. How does he know the exact drivetrain losses? A: He doesn't. I, for one, believe the claims since there is serious backlash and possible major fines for misrepresenting HP numbers. Remember what happened to the RX-8? Not to mention it takes some major power to put down those 1/4 mile times on a heavy-*** mustang.
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Old 07-05-11, 07:47 PM
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***update***

I was just browsing through and found this old thread, so I wanted to update what has happaned.

I ended up going with a BNR Stage 4 on a series 5 turbo. I got it tuned at wastegate pressure, about 10 PSI, but nothing more since I still had the stock intercooler and no AI.

I took it back to the strip, because what the heck. I waited a while till the engine bay was cooled down, then did a 1/8 mile run to check the intake temps and it looked decent. I waited until it cooled down again and ran a 14.3 @98 with a awful launch, then let it cool down again. This time I turned up the boost a bit to 11-12 pounds. I had a not-quite-as-bad launch (2.3 second 60 foot) and ended up with a 13.7 @103.2, which I was quite happy with.

I drove it around like this for 3 or 4 months, when one evening I popped the motor. I checked the logs and the boost had somehow spiked to 15+ PSI and it probably pre-ignited, taking out everything in the front along with it. There are pieces of apex seal imbedded in the rotor, its insane. So it was sat since that happened in October, and I am finally getting everything together to rebuild it. The new motor has a half-bridge port, done by BDC. I will be running some sort of auxillary injection as well. I would like to move to a v-mount intercooler setup at some point, funds permitting. I'll have a time slip up for this motor once its done as well.
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Old 07-06-11, 02:16 AM
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Yikes, that sucks. Did the logs indicate the intake temps @ 15psi?
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Old 07-06-11, 11:20 AM
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Unfortunately I wasn't logging at the time - I could tell it hit 15 PSI because the boost controller keeps track of max PSI. It all worked out in the end, though. I really needed to rebuild the engine and this forced me to do it. The motor actually had a cracked/partially missing side seal when I got it, so it was spewing oil all over the place. Plus it taught me some valuable lessons about not being stupid and half-assing stuff. The only thing I can come up with that caused the boost to go up was that I had the boost controller laying in the floor board (I know, stupid) and it bumped the **** that turns up the boost as it was rolling around on the floor.
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