Brentis

go take a look at the 3 pictures you posted and tell me there isn't a remarkably strong resemblance. I think the c5 even has the same double bump in the roofline.

Yep. Supra didn't either. mr2 did. So you want to bet that the c6 won't have pop-ups?

matty

ahahha..lol

DamonB

In that case I think a Firebird would look similar from that angle. So would a Probe.

The cues in the C5 were already present in C4, just softened and exagerated in C5. The only "new" thing in C5 is the flat, aerodynamic butt. The C5 never attempted to be "sexy" like the FD. It's has much squareer shoulders and looks very much more GT racing as opposed to round like the FD.

And if we want to argue copying, you ever seen an FC parked next to a Porsche 944? The Porsche was first And I think the NSX looks more like the Corvette Indy show car than anything else.



I bet it won't. Can't think of any new car designs with pop ups.

Corvette Indy, 1986


Acura NSX


Porsche 944


Mazda FC RX-7


Ford Probe


Pontiac Firebird

redrotorR1

Fer cryin' out loud ... not another digressed thread about how the C5 copied the FD design. Just let it go, people.

Brentis

jeez - Damon I think you misunderstood me i said I bet the next corvette will not have pop-ups. Which is pretty risky for me to say b/c of the corvettes heritage in pop-ups - since what '64?

Guess I can't get you to agree with me on anything today.

I think this thread is officially OT.

DamonB

I was agreeing with you on C6 not having popups. Oh, and it was '63

It's alright. I'm the Mod

Brentis

guess i should read more carefully.

rx7gslse

looks liek I'm a coupel days late on this thread guys...


but good pictures Damon

Umrswimr

I completely agree with Damon- the Corvette carried the styling cues from the C3 through to the C5. I do not believe the design was "stolen" as many FD owners maintain.

The magneto-rheologic shocks are standard on the '03 anniversary edition and an option for all coupes and convertables from '03 and into '04. It is not available for the Z06.

Another interesting read: http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

It explains/test the handling differences of the C5's with base, Z51, Z06, and MSRC options. The #1 factor was the supercar tires on the Z06 vs the runcraps on the C5. Swap out the runcraps and the Z51 car handled almost as well as the Z06- no small feat.

BATMAN

the mirrors and fenders of the c5 resembles the FD......

alberto_mg

hey matty - one last thing. the GC and any other coil over kit using those spring rates will very likely have a negative effect on ride comfort. those spring rates are a bit much for street comfort. there is at least one thread i saw with someone complaining about that when i was researching springs a month back.

matty

Then what can i do to decrease body roll? I already have eibach springs on koni shocks and a pettit sway bar. i still have more roll then a z06 with a harsher ride.

DamonB

Body roll in and of itself is not a bad thing; you can't just decide to make one car handle exactly like another. The key is to maximize grip. The stock FD has tremendous grip even though it does have more body roll than a Z06.

matty

i just liked the way that minimal roll felt like. to me roll feels like slop.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Matty,
You may want to look into one of the modular sway bars, and stiffer-rate springs. Per my earlier post harshness of ride has alot less to do with spring rate than everyone seems to think, and alot more to do with shock-valving... a set of high-end adjustable coilovers may be what you ultimately need. Koni yellows don't ride very well for everyday driving, and aren't very adjustable. Ask me how I know.

matty

thats what i am thinking about....the spring rates. Not sure what you mean by "modular" sway bar?

As far as traction is concerned, my car amazed the hell out of me when i tracked it this summerr....i had no idea what these cars can do. i was able to get back on to the throttle way before i thought i could...in fact it took the instructor yelling at me for me to learn that. The car is just dead neutral it seemed to me. Btw i was on toyo street tires.

I agree also about shocks having a large impact on harshness. My stock pep shocks were much more "comfortable" it seems. To be honest i wouldnt mind the harshness if the car handled as level as i want it too.

DamonB

ptrahn, my car was a base model. I have Koni yellows on it with stock springs and I feel at their softest setting they are slightly firmer than the base struts, but softer than an R1. What were your findings?

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

By modualar bar, i mean the type tripoint sell that are a straigh bar with seperate, splined endlinks. You can adjust the bar with the different mounting holes in the endlinks, and upgrade/downgrade to different thickness bars...

most of the stock upgrade bars are pretty vague about how stiff they actually are when compared to stock... at least with modular you can get it where you want it, and not just be "stiffer than stock" whatever that means.

maxcooper

I got the opportunity to run a few laps in a C5 with the Z51 suspension and some sticky Kumho R-counpound tires (275F/315R or something like that). It was a lot of fun. I found the car easy to drive and place on the track. The torque is very nice, but I still love the turbo rush, even if it doesn't help you get around the track any faster. The C5 is a lot bigger than the FD and rotates more slowly. That gives it a more stable feel, but the FD is far more "tossable" in my experience. If the FD had torque and wider tires from the factory, I suspect it would still be the car to beat at the AutoX. But it doesn't, and the Z-06 is the current king of the cones.

I also got a chance to drive an '02 Z-06 around on the street for a bit. I didn't really get a chance to test out the handling, but I expect that it would be very similar to the Z51 with sticky tires. The stock Z-06 tires are great, and the day I drove the C5 at the track, the owner of that C5 got to drive a stock Z-06 around for a few laps and raved about the grip, even though he was used to his big, sticky Kumhos. Anyway, the Z-06 did have a surprisingly good ride (comfort) compared to my stiff RX-7. The power is very nice, but I still missed the turbo rush.

Overall, the Z-06 is a really fantastic car. It isn't perfect -- the interior isn't very "nice", C5s aren't the most reliable cars (but they do have a warranty), and it draws more attention than I would prefer (which is more of a mis-match for me than a complaint about the car -- I know lots of people buy them *because* they draw attention). But the Z-06 is damn good; good enough that I would buy one. When I consider what I should replace my daily driver with, I keep thinking of getting one. They hold their value pretty well, so it probably wouldn't cost me that much more than a more sensible choice. It does seem a little crazy having two cars with just 4 seats and 800+ HP between the two. And while I live in an apartment. I never claimed to be practical.

The Z-06 is pretty light, and is definitely lighter than you would expect for a car of that size. But it does weigh a few hundred more pounds than a modded FD (or even a stock one). I think this difference may be most of the difference in ride comfort. You could add weight to the FD to smooth out the ride a bit. If you add it near the ends of the car, it would make it more stable, though that is certainly sacriledge at that point. I guess the other thing to do would be to get a bunch of seat time in a safe environment to get more comfortable with the FD's "quick rotating" handling.

-Max

DamonB

I've had several Vette drivers in my FD and that is the comment I always hear from them. The FD is more nimble on an autox course due to it's quicker turn in and narrower track which means it doesn't have to move over as far to get through the "obstacles" (ever seen a 125cc shifter kart on an autox course?). The FD may be more fun to drive on the course, but it ain't faster

And you know what real racers say about ugly racecars: "I don't care how ugly it is as long as it wins!"

The Chaparral 2J from Jim Hall. The Chaparral Can-Am cars are some of my favorite cars of all time.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Thats about right. With the konis, you're only adjusting the rebound anyway... the compression stays the same. All the "firm" setting seems to do is make the car a little "jerky-er" over uneven surfaces (bacause the the shocks are rebounding more firmly). Turn-in is a little more crisp as well.

When i moved to the 500/400 lb. coilovers from Eibach pro-kits, I actually found I liked the ride better, because the extra compression stiffness kept the car from crashing down over dips, road construction where they've peeled up a layer of pavement, potholes, etc. The rebound, since its mostly controlled by the shock, seemed about the same.

The only instance where i'd say the coilovers DIDN"T work in my favor was in situations where there are lots of smaller imperfections in the road... like back country roads... the stiffly sprung car tends to skip over them, so the tires are not in constant contact w/ the road, and grip suffers.

matty

well this is exactly what i am saying...over dips in the road its a disaster!

Can u tell me more about your suspension setup? Are you saying you went koni coilover conversion?

redrotorR1

I "played tag" with a black C5 with the Z51 suspension and the same V700 sizes, in Mineral Wells, TX. I would chase him down in the straightaways, but he would gain back the space in the corners. After my hot laps were done, I watched a handful of his afternoon session. The amount of grip that his car had was incredible ... he should have definitely been faster than me.

In terms of the FD's comparison to the Z06, it would need 13psi, 275/40 17's all around, and about MUCH stiffer spring rates .... and that would be just to be competitive. I've ridden in several Z06's and offerred many co-drive opportunities, but none have been accepted. (Z06 owners don't like getting beat in their own car .... ) The Z06 corners so flat and turns in so well; with all that torque and the "near-perfect" gearing, it's not hard to see why they're so tough to beat. And here's the scary part ... the '04 Z06 is supposed to be way better than the rest.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I have the standard koni yellows, and added an M2/GC coilover conversion... with 500/400 lb. spring rates...

i gather you can't change the springs in your autocross class, so your sorta screwed. I'm sure you got the konis because they allowed you to lower the ride height a bit, but with those spring rates its gotta suck!

I dunno, perhaps a set of GABs or other shocks you could firm up would be better, but I don't have any experiance with others.

DamonB

In any stock class you can change the shocks, but you must run the stock springs with the car at stock ride height. You're not even allowed to use the lower perches on the Koni in stock