Rhode_Dog

So I was bored and surfing on the net and found a link for Japanese Market Ohlins Coilovers for the FD.

401,560 JPY = 3,489.54 USD

I suppose thats not too bad for a set of Ohlins, lol.


http://www.ooparts-international.co....ins/index.html

NeedFD

not bad, my friend got a used set in good condition for around $2000

Rhode_Dog

Thats a good deal for such an expensive brand of suspension components.

The only lame thing I noticed about the JDM Ohlins is equal spring rates( 14/14 kg ). Guess thats a japanese suspension fetish.

jic

iTrader: (1)

1800 shipeed from ramy

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

A little birdy told me that Penske is coming out with a new coilover setup which is double adjustable and is under $2500 new. They should be released later this year.

That is what I'll be researching for sure.

rx7tt95

One word. Aragosta. They rock.

Rhode_Dog

Latley I have been trying to brush up on suspension tech, lots of good threads.

I saw yours with your Aragosta install, very nice.

CMonakar

That would be great. These are really neat:
http://performance.accuratetechnolog...products_id=86

I'm in the market for a set of coilovers. I originally budgeted $1,600, but now I'm at $2,500 or whatever is necessary . Use will be 90/10 street/track. I have a set of Koni Yellows with Eibach pro springs right now. I'm happy with the ride quality with the shocks set to medium except the ride seems pretty rough over small bumps considering the moderate level of compression damping. If there is a shock that has a little more compliance on initial compression that would be great.

Here is what I have on the list so far. I'm open to other suggestions:
-Zeal Function X (single 30 way adj) $2400 (reasonable spring rates)
-Zeal Function Xs (single 6 way adj) $2045 (same range as the X with less clicks?)
-Tein HT (double adj) $1950 (spring rates are way too high, not sure if the stock damping level would be well suited to softer springs)

I've heard good things about the Zeal shocks from street drivers, but don't know any serious track guys that are using them. On the other hand, a friend of mine that had a set of Motons and really expensive Konis said they were fine on the track, but the durability was abysmal when he started using them on the street. I am not sure what to conclude from that. I have noticed a couple manufacturers make vague references to certain shocks being designed to withstand street use. I always though the only difference between a good street and track shock is the level of damping (soft v hard), but statements like that and my friend's experience make me wonder if the ideal track valve and seal design is not ideal for the street and vice versa.

sereneseven

OK ok easy guys.

while the 8760 is a great racing shock it is neither needed or intended for use on a street /track fun day car. here are is a little run down as to why.

the shim's used by penske while extremely accurate are also prone to being deformed and also fatigue quickly...some of this is also do to the pistons they use.
penkes fluid degrades in as little as a 2hr race.
the monoballs used in the eylets wear extremly fast
the anodize on the body is prone to being worn off by the piston which then eqeals contamination of the fluid...

bottom line if you have 5k sitting around and you don't mind spending $100 a rebuild and you are convinced you just have to have them then more power to you, I have three sets of these and theres a reason i have tokicko's on my 7. theres also a reason people pay me to service there shocks almost every time they get run.

am3210

You should be able to get olins here for your FD within a year. The problem is no dealer here in the US has tried to fit them on our cars and that's why we don't have them, but I know of a dealer who's willing to do just that. I will pass on the information as soon as I have more.

adam-trd

Hey,

i know this thread is a bit old, but i actually bought some of these. they only got delivered from Japan the other day.

they cost 270,000 approx Yen on the auctions. brand new... they seem quite nice! i just have to assemble them.

ta,

Adam.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Therein lies the big conflict.

Many of the high-end coilovers, like Penske, Advance Design, possibly JRZ are great on track, and I've heard even great on the street—but if they require a rebuild every year (or sooner) to maintain that greatness, they aren't worth it.

Even though my car is predominantly a track car (that I drive on weekends and to and from the track), "track" means HPDE and occasional time trials, not national championship racing. I'd be upset if my shocks needed rebuilding any sooner than 5 years. That'a a major PITA to R&R, ship two ways, and pay $100+/shock.

It's this aspect that there doesn't seem to be alot of hard data on for all of the various options. Much as I'd love the best of the best, realistically I'd rather have 80% of the track performance and then still have 75% of it four years later without having rebuilt them every friggin' six months.

Silver7

These "race" shocks such as Penske, JRZ, Moton, and Ohlin are designed to be rebuilt. The rebuid parts are cheap and you can do the rebuild yourself. It's just one the maintenance items you deal with if you want the best handling possible. It's not much different then what an FD owner is already used to doing. IMO the Koni Yellows and Tokico should not even be used in the same sentence as these high end race shock since they don't even compare from a performance standpoint

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

^^^

OK whatever. I don't consider pulling the coilovers and rebuilding them part of "the normal maintainence FD owners are doing" and I've owned one since '98, tracked it for years, and generally over-maintain it otherwise.

I know many racers are rebuilding motors and such ever few events too, but that just isn't realistic for a regular owner. SO, given that's what "race" shocks take, and Koni Yellows suck, what's in between that offers 80% of the race shock capability without the hassle?

Silver7

I'm not talking about rebuilding the shocks every other race. Once a year isn't that big of a deal and that would be only to keep the dampening in tip top shape. I've used Koni Yellows and I've used JRZ. To me it's worth the additional maintenance.

There seems to be a market developing for the weekend racer who wants something a little better than a Koni Yellow but is not ready to move to a full race shock. Right now I think Tein has a product that a lot of people are happy with that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. JRZ has a line of shocks (Model RZ) that are about $1500 cheaper than their race version. The main difference is that the race version is designed to be rebuild in the pits very easily. The RZ model is designed to be rebuilt as often since its more geared towards the weekend racer. Penske also has a similar version that I will be looking into next year.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

^^^

We'll have to agree to disagree. Rebuilding shocks once a year to me would be like having to install a new clutch every year. Worse really. Three years would be the earliest window I'd consider acceptable.

Silver7

I meant to say not as often.


On a side note, there are people who use these race shocks and don't rebuild for years with no problems. I wouldn't say they need to be rebuilt often, but they would need to be refreshed often to keep them performing optimally.

2muchpower has a set of JRZs that haven't been rebuilt in years (unless he rebuild them when he made the purchase) and he loves them. Maybe he will chime in and give us his opinion.

I'll take an old set of JRZs over a new set of Koni Yellows since I believe that even though they are a little worn they will dampen better.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

^^^

Well there's a good point. I agree, I don't think Koni yellows are worth a squirt (and I've got 'em!), so Lets say on a performance scale of 1 to 10, stock touring shocks are 1, Koni Yellows are 3 but will be relatively consistent until it blows outright, and brand spankin' new JRZ's are 10's, that will fade to 7 or 8 in a year.

Is there something out there that's a 7 or 8 that will stay a 7-8 for a long time? It's sort of like How Hoosiers are great on day one, less so for days 2-8, and then dead. I'd rather have a tire that was hoosier day 2 quality but lasted 12 days.

billyboy

The valving is quite a way off as delivered, Murray Coote up your way has the valving specs required to make them work for a car on slicks in race trim (although his rear setting needs some further refining I'm told)- so may have some suggestions for your application - a bit of coin involved.

Silver7

There are certainly lesser quality shocks that would fall into the 7 or 8 category (Tein comes to mind), but they will still degrade with time and need to be rebuilt to maintain peak performance. What I like about Penske is that they are designed to be rebuilt and revalved by the user. They even send you an instructional guide on how to do it and the parts are relatively inexpensive from what I understand.

The Koni Yellows should be refreshed every couple of seasons for optimum performance but you have to send them out to do so. You also have to send them out to get them revalved if you decide to up your spring rates. I'm not sure about the mid grade shocks like tein, but I would think you would have to send them out as well. I'm running GAB Super R right now and as far as I know they can't even be rebuilt.

Either way I'm pretty set on getting a set of Penskes next year and they will be used both on the track and on the street.

DigDug

I've had my Zeal shocks revalved and I must say it was a pretty painful process.

Zeal has a US office in California which can service their shocks and change valving, but they don't even have a shock dyno at that location. Their dyno is in Japan, so if you want them to plot the shocks to confirm their work, it's much more expensive because they have to be shipped over and back. I have a very good local suspension shop which I had dyno the shocks before and after the changes, but of course this adds time and cost to the process.

Here's the worst part - the tech at the US office incorrectly assembled the rear shocks TWICE! First time, the separator piston height was set wrong so the rear shocks only had about 1" of travel before they bottomed out, so I had to ship them back. A week or so later I get them back and they're getting more travel, but still well short of 3". At this point, the US office decides that they need to be shipped to the home office in Japan to be correctly assembled. They did so, and ran them on the dyno and tested stroke before shipping them back. Clearly not having a dyno, and not even bothering to test how much stroke the shocks have before shipping back to the customer, results in experiences like mine.

I got what I wanted with the valving, but it took a couple months and much frustration to achieve that. I kept thinking if I just had Penskes or something along those lines, I could have tried 20 different changes in the time it took.

Sorry for the rant but I thought it was applicable to this discussion.

DigDug

BTW the local shop I referred to is called RRT and they're located in Dulles VA. They have a Roehrig dyno and spring rater, and even a swaybar rater.

http://www.rrtsuspension.com/

Barry is the shock guy and he works with a lot of high-end race shocks from Ohlins and Penske. I looked at various plots from those shocks, and comparing to a typical street/track coilover shock, you can really see why they are so expensive from their incredibly precise damping curves and adjustments, though few of us would really benefit that much from this. Of course they make a trade-off in longevity to achieve that. Being user-serviceable is a great advantage, even if you can't do it yourself you may be able to find a good shop near you to do the work and dyno them without needing to ship them out and wait for weeks.

hsitko

iTrader: (1)

Those look very nice. But probably way overkill for most of us.

sereneseven

This subject keeps popping up....WOW race shocks they cost alot so they give me better damping.....well the truth is that they offer many things needed for the racing however they also require many things such as maintenance and the knowledge of how to valve them to take advantage of the adjustability provided on a modern race shock. just because you bolt on a set of penske/ohlins doesn't mean that your car will handle any better in fact depending on the piston and shims used the curve or damping characteristics could be down right undrivable in some conditions...unless your going to dedicate the time needed to learn how to use them just get some simple single adj. sport shocks and call it a day.

r0t0rhead

iTrader: (12)

Very well put Serene! racing dampers like most race related parts do offer more adjustments-but its the knowledge of how to adjust them (and "service" the parts more frequently) that counts