Jesse[SM]

wow, you're a ****.

when I tried on a set of lightweight 17s on my 240, going from a set of nearly equal weight 15s(I think the total difference wheel + tire combo was 2lbs) I found it harder to spin the 17s. wheel diameter does make a difference, and I was simply stating that I think he's probably feeling the difference in size in addition, that's my theory. I don't have his wheels so I can't get all Bill Nye and try different **** out to come up with a definitive answer, and neither can you.

Black91n/a

An equal total weight, equal OD, equal width wheel and tire setup on smaller wheels will have a lower moment of inertia than the equivalent in a larger diameter, making it a little harder to spin the tires.

You probably had different tires on the two setups though, accounting for most of the difference.

Some ride comfort will come from taller sidewalls, but the 15's have race tires with stiff sidewalls and they're smaller than the 17's, so the difference in height isn't that much (225/50/15 vs 225/45/17). It's the improved responses, acceleration and things like that that are the advantages with lighter weight mostly.

RETed

I guess that makes you a *****?


I have the GAB's + S-03's sitting right next to me not even 5 feet away.
I can find a set of stock FC 16's no problem.
I have the certified scale sitting under the bed right under me right now.
I can try "different ****" anytime I want to.
In fact, I have 3 sets of wheels and tires right now which I can swap out with a quick trip to the garage.
The first set is the GAB's.
I'm running a set of 17" Panasports on my FC right now.
I have a set of 17" Work Equips sitting right next to the GAB's right now.
All have tires on them.
Don't tell me what I can and cannot do when you don't know who the **** you're talking about.


-Ted

unicorn_squad

yes, wheel weight does definetly make a difference.
I first noticed this a couple years ago driving the formula mazda's and mitsubishi's at Infineon raceway... both cars have the exact same steering setup, and very similar chassis/supension design(although definetly different). but on the mazda's, the steering was like 400 times lighter, and the car felt a lot easier to drive, even though its like twice as fast as the mitsubishi's. I soon found out, this is due to wheel/tire weight, as the mitsubishi's are running 15 inch aluminum wheels, with yokohama all season tires (more predictable than race tires, good for beginners), where as the mazda's are running 13 inch (maybe even 12's in front... ? can't remember) aluminum racing wheels, that with tires weigh probably under 20 lbs.... you can easily lift them with 2 or 3 fingers. so there's no denying this difference in wheel weight, and how noticeable it is on the cars.

on my FC, however, I still run 18x10's on the back, that weigh almost 30 lbs each (without tires), with a tire size I could fit on a 18x7. I have run many many different tire sizes, wheel sizes, tire compounds, wheel weights, etc..., and to me, this combo is still the best feeling combo I have run soo far.
I still have not run a heavy wheel on the front... and I'm sure I would notice a difference with that, probably a lot worse. I have run a 17x9 that weighs probably about 17 lbs, and now I am running a 18x9.5 that weighs about the same. I definetly noticed a difference in the way the car drives with these wheels, but with the wheel/tire combo weighing about the same as athe last set of fronts I used, I can't blame it on weight. this is all offset, tire sidewall, and tire compound, that I'm noticeing.

you can say 'well you'd probably be better off with... ', and pull out all the technical mumbo jumbo you want, but here's the thing.... I DON'T CARE, because despite everything you know about grip driving and autocross, and setting up a car's suspension, it does not translate over to how my car feels while drifting.

Black91n/a

A properly setup car feels better, period.

Jesse[SM]

they were both Azenis, so I just assumed that a larger diameter would be harder to spin, like how figure skaters will accelerate their spin by pulling their limbs closer to their body.

Black91n/a

Ok, well lets look at this again, Falken Azenis are only available in a 205/50/15 for 15" sizes. So that's probably narrower and shorter than the 17" setup (225/45/17 maybe?). Wider tires are harder to spin, having that tread and wheel rim weight out further gives a higher moment of inertia, making them harder to spin, and larger diameter tires give a less favorable gear ratio, making them harder to spin. So it could still be down to tires.

Anyway, weight matters, and I know from hanging out on the Miata.net forums that even average people (even passengers not aware of the weight difference or what it does) will feel the difference between a light and a not so light setup, even with differences as small as 3lb or so. Now the Miata is more sensitive than most, but 10lbs on an FC is noticable.

Jesse[SM]

that's basically what I was saying, maybe I misread your post?

USS CJ

Are you serious? Wow thanks.

who would have thought!

Black91n/a

I was responding to that, and yes I'm serious. Having a car that does exactly what you want when you want with no bad habbits and that rides decently is best, and that's what a properly set up car is. A car that's overly stiff, overly soft, improperly dampled, has lots of understeer or oversteer has bumpsteer issues or whatever won't be as nice to drive.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

oh noes stretch tire!

haha im stupid

true a balanced car feels better for grip/autocross, but it depends, whos not to say a overly stiff car with stretched tires, slammed suspension and "poor dampers" doesnt feel better for the purpose it was built for by its driver? its all driver preference.. We all build our cars for the purpose of what we do with them, weither its drift/grip or wahtever..

I dont usually see people on this forum flame someone for thier proper fitting tires or shock/spring combo, yet when someone posts up stretched tires and coilovers, there are alot of negative comments made to that person or thier car setup.

RETed

And you seem to have missed the primary point of the argument...

Stretch fitments are NOT recommended by the tire manufacturers themselves.
The only one that does post a stretch fitment is Falken.

I really don't give a **** if YOU like it better.
My point is that it is not recommended.
And all you dumbasses who like to argue otherwise, you dunno how dumb you sound thinking that you're smarter than the company that designed the tires in the first place.

Can you get that through your thick skull?


-Ted

Jesse[SM]

a lot of **** isn't "recommended by the manufacturer", but so the **** what? Have you seriously never voided a warranty or tinkered with something in a manner "other than as intended"? If you don't like it, that's fine, then don't do it, nobody cares if you stretch your tires or not.

owen is fat

[QUOTE=jwilliam;7717072]wow, you're a ****.

...I found it harder...
...I think he's probably feeling the difference in size.../QUOTE]

out of context = lol.

owen is fat

hey on another note -

wouldnt it be awesome if wheel manufacturers published not only the weight of their wheels (accurately too, that would be amazing) but also the force required to rotate it, as in the polar moment arm, or an eaisly useful term and units to describe to the buyers how the weight plays a role in the rotational forces required to accelerate the wheel.

then there wouldnt be so much bickering.
its easily measured but nobody has done it just yet.
dont make me break into my local university's physics lab to do some testing on wheels every weekend, lol.

Wezzmo

17x9 +8 up front (215/45)

and 18x10 +19 on the back (225/40)... getting a guard roller for the tonight... when I roll the guards I should be able to lower it a bit more and space it out a bit more.

Jesse[SM]

do it!

RETed

You're right...
It's NOT RECOMMENDED you go point a gun to your head and pull the trigger...
You can still do it although it is NOT RECOMMENDED.
How stupid of me!
DUH

**** it, you go on the ignore list too.


-Ted

turboeric

Those aren't stretched - they're deflected. Even in the late 70's (that's a Ferrari 312-T5 driven by the incomparable Gilles Villeneuve) F1 tire sizes were constrained by the rules, and had to have very tall sidewalls. In extreme cornering, you would get radical sidewall deflection such as you see there (discounting the flat right rear tire in the photo).

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

Looking to get the widest wheel possible in the front of my s4. I will have added steering angle, tokico illuminas with ground control coilovers, and am willing to do some fender rolling/wide fenders if need be. What is the size and offset that will allow me to run the largest tire possible up front, and what is the first thing that will cause a problem? (example : hitting the strut/coilover or hitting the fender)

I know that this has most likely been said before, but I don't have time to read through 111 pages.

I am doing this because I don't want ANY understeer. (Yes I know understeer saves your life, but this is a track only / drift car)

Thank You.
~Tweak

finishline

iTrader: (13)

i everytime i see your avatar tweakgames.

Black91n/a

My advice would be that since you're looking for the absolute biggest possible tire is to get a wheel with an offset a little on the high side, then space it out for the best clearance and be sure to roll the fenders ahead of time. I've seen pics of a 245/40/17 on a 17x8 30mm offset wheel in front with GC's and rolled fenders, it was tight, but it fit. I'd go for a wider wheel with that tire though, like a 17x8.5 or a 17x9 maybe. With luck a 255/40/17 might be made to fit (you'll probably need to limit your lowering to make it work).

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

Thanks finishline, I have been updating it every few weeks or so.


Black91n/a, I REALLY think that 245 should be quite wide enough from the stock 205s I have. I didn't know that I could go that wide without much issue. I won't be dropping the car far at all, (maybe an inch and a half) because I want to be able to keep my upgraded steering angle. Now I just need to find some cheap 17x9 30mm offset wheels for the front. I haven't even started thinking about rear yet. O.o I know I can fit some pretty big ones, but I'm not sure I will want to burn up some good wide rear tires. I will most likely go 205-215 rear.

Thanks guys!

BTW do you have any links to those pictures of the 245 in front?

Black91n/a

http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=45732

*Bites tongue* 245's in front with 205-215's in the back? That's, um, unconventional. I'd stick with some good 225/45/17's (or maybe narrower) in that case.

Personally, I'd get some Enkei RPF1's, not too expensive quite light and strong too. They've got a 17x8.5 30mm offset 15.5lb one that should fit nicely, or they've also got 15.9lb 17x9's in a 22mm or 35mm offset, but as the wheel gets wider so does the tire and it gets harder to fit the same size tire.

USS CJ

for drifting? You want 245 front and 215 rear?


have you ever drifted an FC?

You want more grip, not less.