Hi all,

Happy to get my wheels, but unhappy that they rub. The fronts are rubbing the fender liner only. I lock the wheel left and also right when backing down my drive way, I am not rubbing anything. I am running 17x9 +43 with a 255/40 tire.

I rub the fender liner when braking hard. When I do brake hard, the front gets pushed down a little by momentum, and the front part of the fender liner (closest to the front of the car) gets rubbing. Surprisingly, I am not getting rubbing on the fender lip... yet.

I am going to a scheduled appointment to a shop for fender rolling in a few hours (goodness it's late). I have a feeling that the fender rolling isn't necessary, but will do it anyways since I have an appointment anyways, but more importantly I will be lowering the car in the future.

I think removing the fender liner will solve my problems, but what are its negative outcomes? It can't be that bad running around without a fender liner? My friend says the only bad thing is that it gets real dirty up under the wheel well, and also things get stuck up there when you run over them (his example was a tree branch or twig).

I might sell the two front 17x9 and get some 17x8 +43 with a 235/45 tire instead... maybe.

late,
chris





will post pics of them on the car in a bit, but it looks ugly... i have big tire gap.

 

on the passenger side is your engine harness. if you eat thru that, then say goodbye to your car.

i had a friend that did that. he was dumb as hell and never listened.

 

Chris, I posted in the other thread....there is no way you should be rubbing the fender liners on a stock suspension with those tire sizes....

 

Those are rubbing on the stock suspension? I agree with Rynberg that it should not be happening with those offsets.


Maybe you need to get some new shocks. My old touring felt like a Caddy when I had 90k on the suspension. Once I stuck some R1 shocks that only had 20k on them, it felt like a new car. How many miles are on your car?

 

You should look at your fender liner, may be it is out of place, but what ever you do don't remove them.

Fumanchu, where in the hell do you get your avatar's at? And do say that ain't your girl See you in 2 months.

 

You have a problem with my girlfriend buddy?


I'm going to be in the academy when you get here. So I won't be able to meet up until January.

 

more pictures:

 

pictures of rubbing:

left side and wheel turned left:



top of left side and wheel turned left:



right side and wheel turned left:



same as above:



right side, and i'm pushing in the fender liner to reveal the damage, at this position the tire is actually touching and pushing in the fender plastic liner:



chris

 

okay, so here's the situation. i went to extreme performance in san jose this morning, and talked to the owner (i believe) who is very knowledgeable in cars in general, does a lot of racing and trophies and stuff. he says that the tire and wheel diamter is too tall in front. he is correct also, it is 0.18" inch taller (damon's spreadsheet).

i've never noticed the rubbing while turning. i only noticed it under hard braking. the thing is, i can't find the damage on the fender liner when rubbing this way. unless, it's hitting the same area of the fender liner when the wheels are locked left and right.

ways to fix it:

1. suspension work. stiffer springs, keep the ride height high. but i actually don't think this will really work. since it's a left and right thing, not an up and down.

2. smaller tire up front. a 245/40 will be 0.14" smaller than stock tire diamter, and be 0.32" smaller than my setup now. he said if it still rubs after this, it shouldn't be by much, and just let it rub and shave off the little plastic it's hitting.

3. smaller wheel and tire up front. this i think would be the proper way to fix my problem. i should've maybe went with the 17x8 +43 with 235/45 tire i was thinking of getting. would love to go this route, but i got to go through the hassel of selling the two front wheel and tire.... that is two days old!

let me know what you guys think.

thanks, late,
chris

 

i don't know how the stock fender liner would be off place. i mean, all the bolts and places where it attaches are there. there are a lot of areas of the fender liner where i can push in, but unfortuantely they don't stay in the position where i push them in, it just buldges back out to it's original position.

i have 49k on the odometer, on stock r1 shocks and springs. i've always complained about how my ride is stiff and always thought it was okay, since it's an r1 its normal. the pillow ball rubber mount doesn't look like its sagging... not that much anyway.

it would be cool if it's just a fender liner issue, but i don't see how it could be.

the guy at the shop also asked me if i was rubbing the lip. looking at it, he said it shouldn't (thats why he insisted on not rolling the fender lip anymore). but he felt the edges of the lip and double checked with me if i was hitting it as he was suspecting it. but i am definately sure i am only hearing a tire to plastic rubbing, like a sand paper dull sound. not a loud tire to metal sound.

chris

 

Bah!

I run a 235/40 18 tire up front -- it is 0.4" taller than stock. My car is lowered well over 1-inch. I only hit the fender liner on very bad dips (that I don't see in time to avoid or slow down).

Running a 235/45 tire will make the fender liner rubbing WORSE, as it is taller than a 255/40 tire.

I'm at a loss at what is happening here, because your fender liners look like they are properly in place. People run that combo with higher offsets on lowered suspensions with no issues. You should have no problems running those tires whatsoever on a stock suspension. I would suspect some problem with your suspension that needs to be addressed before you start selling your new wheels...

Not to sound like a complete jackass, but the tires actually do say 255/40 17 right?

 

you jackass... just joking. but you did get me to get up off of my seat and check... and yes, they are all 255/40s.

i just called Rick @ RicksRotary, and i told him my dilemma. he first suggested the upper rubber pillow ball mounts which are known to sag. this might be able to solver my fender liner rubbing when i do hard breaking with the wheels straight. when i mentioned that the tires hit the fender liner when locked all the way right or left, he said it can be suspension components, but to all check the alignment. so i'll go ahead and start checking alignment shops.

damn, im sad, such a nice car, cleaned and waxed, sitting on some such a nice looking wheel and nice sticky tire, on such a nice dry day....... but i cant drive the damn car hard!

chris

 

Take it to C2 Automotive in Oakland or Roger Kraus Racing in Castro Valley. Either place does a very good job, knows how to handle custom aligments and low cars, and both know FDs. Call for an appt first..

I hear ya....mine's still at Rick's! So quit calling him and distracting him from working on my car.

 

I'm not sure if it is the rim but there is a lot of back space between the rim face and the brake caliper. Are you sure they are 43 offset? I mean I got 29 offset up front on 18x8 and I have that much space or less with no rubbing issues and I know need bushing up front.

the reason I was asking if the liner was installed properly is because may be while the car is forcing air in there, it might pushing it back out. See if you can pull on it with little force.

 

Damn!!! I was going to ask you a favor also. I need a place where to ship the FD so I can pick it up while I find a house.

 

its wierd how you are rubbing your fender liner. im running 235/45/18 +38 up front and it only scrapes on big dips. over all car looks great chris.

 

I'm not going anywhere, just going to be super busy. PM me and I will try and help you out.

 

thanks man.


errrr... i'm so irritated, i was really looking forward to do some road carving with this setup, and maybe do a track day before the summer ends. but it looks like i will be spending the rest of the summer trying to figure this out.

about aligntment: would adjusting either the camber or caster help position the wheel/tire away from the fender liner?

i don't think going do to a 17x8 or smaller tire is going to help this. the tire damater going down i don't think will be enough to avoid the fender liner, my tire diamter now is so close to stock diameter (as rynberg mentioned). there's something off here.... no fender lip contact (i believe), but only fender line contact on hard braking (wheels straight), and when locked left or right... just can't figure this out.

i guess ill check the alignment first, then afterwards have my mechanic inspect the suspenion components.

chris

 

nice rims Chris so did you roll your fenders?

 

thanks.

no i didn't roll them. the owner of the shop said that it's not rubbing on the fender lip, so need to. maybe when i get it lowered.

chris

 

Did you rub at all w/ your stock wheels? If not, then try 245/40-17 up front. That size is almost identical to the stock wheel and tire diameter (albeit 0.2" shorter). And "hondas4kids" brought up a good question which you haven't answered yet - are the wheels indeed +43 offset? Look for a stamp or sticker inside the wheel.

 

hi all,

so some of the things i'm eliminating that i don't think is the problem:

-tire diameter; it's so close stock diameter.

-ride height. i want to say it's not the ride height. i'm on stock height and near stock tire/wheel diameter. i do rub the fender liner when hard braking (steering wheel striaght), which is when the front pushes down when braking. but i think its still the tire clearance between the tire and fender liner, and is hitting the same spot of the fender liner when the steering wheel is locked left or right.

-i don't think offset is a problem. i got a pretty high offset. say at a steering lock position, either full left or right, moving the wheel in more with a higher offset will not do anything with the clearance between the tire and fender liner.

what can it be?

i'm going to check the alignment. would checking and maybe adjusting the alignment settings (camber, caster, etc... not to familiar) affect the position of the wheel? maybe the alignment settings are off and the wheel/tire is closer to the fender liner than it should?

or maybe the 255/40/17 is too wide up front? but i know people running this setup with a +45 offset with no or little rubbing.

here are some more pictures... maybe someone will see something:

 

As I alluded to in my post above, if you don't hit your fender liner(s) w/ the stock wheels and tires, then your new tires are just too tall. Switching to a shorter tire should do the trick.

 

i did verify it on one wheel. i assumed the rest are the same since they all look identical.



i'm seriously thinking of going down to a 17x8 +43 with a 225/45 tire. maybe the 255/40 is just too wide. but i want to try my best to make what i have work. that 255/40 tire up front looks so nice.

chris

 

yes, that is a possibility. but would 0.18" bigger than the stock diameter (damon's spreadhseet) make that big of a difference? i agree, a smaller diameter would help the issue here, but i don't think its going to be enough to clear the fender liner, the tire when locked full left or right, pushes the fender liner inside a little bit. maybe more than the 0.18".

okay, how about this:

i will maybe try a 245/40/17. i was thinking, not will it only reduce the over wheel/tire diameter, but it will be a thinner tire. so not only will it have better clearance by being a shorter tire, but when locked full left or right, the 245/40 tire being thinner, will have more clearance at the edges?

but i still remember reading a thread with a guy (xchaos i think) who did a 17x9 +43 255/40 tire up front and 18x10 in back. he had an ls1 swap i think. he was lowered with ground controls, with the fender lip rolled, and he had no rubbing. i don't know if he kept the fender liner in tact tho.


chris