Need some help on figuring out all of the suspension bushings
07-24-05, 10:16 AM
#1
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Need some help on figuring out all of the suspension bushings
Hey Guys,
I'm gonna do a suspension overhaul on my car soon, want to replace all of the bushings and update to a set of Apexi coilovers. Have been looking for a while, but I can't find a definite source for a listing of all of the suspension bushings and pillow ball mounts I would need. What I've been able to find so far is:
Total suspension bushings for car (not including the front bushing on the lower trailing arm, from what I have heard, those are only available with a new arm)
Toe Link Outer Bearing (2 required)
Toe Link Inner Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Inner Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Inner (4 Required)
Upper Control Arm Shock Bushing (2 required)
Does anyone know if I'm missing anything, and does the above list include the pillow ball mounts or do I have to order the 6 pillow ball mounts in addition to the above listed parts???
I just got a hold of an arbor and want to do this job before it starts getting cold again (around end of august I guess). If anyone has any info on this or knows of additional parts I may need, please let me know. I've got the tools to do the job (I think, got an arbor at least). If anyone's got any info it'd be really appreciated.
I'm thinkin of also going with the OEM rubber bushings because I've heard both good and bad about the Ubonatim (I think that's how it's spelled) bushings and am worried about those bushings wearing out faster than the OEMs.
I'm gonna do a suspension overhaul on my car soon, want to replace all of the bushings and update to a set of Apexi coilovers. Have been looking for a while, but I can't find a definite source for a listing of all of the suspension bushings and pillow ball mounts I would need. What I've been able to find so far is:
Total suspension bushings for car (not including the front bushing on the lower trailing arm, from what I have heard, those are only available with a new arm)
Toe Link Outer Bearing (2 required)
Toe Link Inner Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Inner Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Inner (4 Required)
Upper Control Arm Shock Bushing (2 required)
Does anyone know if I'm missing anything, and does the above list include the pillow ball mounts or do I have to order the 6 pillow ball mounts in addition to the above listed parts???
I just got a hold of an arbor and want to do this job before it starts getting cold again (around end of august I guess). If anyone has any info on this or knows of additional parts I may need, please let me know. I've got the tools to do the job (I think, got an arbor at least). If anyone's got any info it'd be really appreciated.
I'm thinkin of also going with the OEM rubber bushings because I've heard both good and bad about the Ubonatim (I think that's how it's spelled) bushings and am worried about those bushings wearing out faster than the OEMs.
07-25-05, 04:04 PM
#3
These are all the same part:
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
And I would start with just the ones listed above and the toe link bushings:
Toe Link Outer Bearing (2 required)
Toe Link Inner Bearing (2 required)
Maybe these if you find that they have some play:
Lower Control Arm Inner Bearing (2 required)
But the rubber bushings (all the rest of the bushings are rubber) are probably okay. No sense spending money on them if they don't need replacement. Order them from Ray Crowe at Malloy Mazda for a good deal.
-Max
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
And I would start with just the ones listed above and the toe link bushings:
Toe Link Outer Bearing (2 required)
Toe Link Inner Bearing (2 required)
Maybe these if you find that they have some play:
Lower Control Arm Inner Bearing (2 required)
But the rubber bushings (all the rest of the bushings are rubber) are probably okay. No sense spending money on them if they don't need replacement. Order them from Ray Crowe at Malloy Mazda for a good deal.
-Max
07-26-05, 11:22 AM
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Oh wow, ok, thanks guys, will give ray a call, but for reference, of the ones you listed max, are any of those pillowballs or do I need to order the pillowballs in addition to these? I haven't gone in there yet so I can't tell yet. But thanks for the info guys, very much appreciated.
07-26-05, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by maxcooper
These are all the same part:
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
And I would start with just the ones listed above and the toe link bushings:
Toe Link Outer Bearing (2 required)
Toe Link Inner Bearing (2 required)
Maybe these if you find that they have some play:
Lower Control Arm Inner Bearing (2 required)
But the rubber bushings (all the rest of the bushings are rubber) are probably okay. No sense spending money on them if they don't need replacement. Order them from Ray Crowe at Malloy Mazda for a good deal.
-Max
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
And I would start with just the ones listed above and the toe link bushings:
Toe Link Outer Bearing (2 required)
Toe Link Inner Bearing (2 required)
Maybe these if you find that they have some play:
Lower Control Arm Inner Bearing (2 required)
But the rubber bushings (all the rest of the bushings are rubber) are probably okay. No sense spending money on them if they don't need replacement. Order them from Ray Crowe at Malloy Mazda for a good deal.
-Max
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
All the others are just the rubber bushings, right??
07-26-05, 02:13 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Recentlyconverted
Wait, I think I just figured it out, these are the pillowballs right:
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
All the others are just the rubber bushings, right??
Lower Control Arm Middle Bearing (2 required)
Lower Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
Upper Control Arm Outer Bearing (2 required)
All the others are just the rubber bushings, right??
Those are the "standard" pillowballs. The usual culprits. The Toe link bushings are also pillowball like. The Lower inboard bushing are a combination rubber/pillowball bushings.
The only true "dumb" rubber bushings are the shock mounts(2), the upper arm inner (4), and the front of the trailing arm(2).
3 quick notes.
* If you are replacing the pillowball bushings you might/probably want to replace the seals that protect them. You need 2 per bushings, 12 total. Around $3 ea.
* Since you are under there, you might also want to check/maybe replace the differential bushings. They often fail.
* If you really want to do a good job, just remove the whole rear subframe. You can dissemble, clean/repaint, and reassemble everything much easier. Fuel Filter replacement is trival too.
Here's a picture of mine all cleaned up just before I put it back in.
07-27-05, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by flunkysama
Not quite,
Those are the "standard" pillowballs. The usual culprits. The Toe link bushings are also pillowball like. The Lower inboard bushing are a combination rubber/pillowball bushings.
The only true "dumb" rubber bushings are the shock mounts(2), the upper arm inner (4), and the front of the trailing arm(2).
3 quick notes.
* If you are replacing the pillowball bushings you might/probably want to replace the seals that protect them. You need 2 per bushings, 12 total. Around $3 ea.
* Since you are under there, you might also want to check/maybe replace the differential bushings. They often fail.
* If you really want to do a good job, just remove the whole rear subframe. You can dissemble, clean/repaint, and reassemble everything much easier. Fuel Filter replacement is trival too.
Here's a picture of mine all cleaned up just before I put it back in.
Those are the "standard" pillowballs. The usual culprits. The Toe link bushings are also pillowball like. The Lower inboard bushing are a combination rubber/pillowball bushings.
The only true "dumb" rubber bushings are the shock mounts(2), the upper arm inner (4), and the front of the trailing arm(2).
3 quick notes.
* If you are replacing the pillowball bushings you might/probably want to replace the seals that protect them. You need 2 per bushings, 12 total. Around $3 ea.
* Since you are under there, you might also want to check/maybe replace the differential bushings. They often fail.
* If you really want to do a good job, just remove the whole rear subframe. You can dissemble, clean/repaint, and reassemble everything much easier. Fuel Filter replacement is trival too.
Here's a picture of mine all cleaned up just before I put it back in.
Gotcha, ok, that makes sense, thanks.
As for pulling the subframe, God damn, thanks for the input, but am a little nervous on pulling that entire assembly out (not that mechanically inclined yet, I don't think). Do I need to pull out the differential to replace the bushings if I don't pull the subframe off?? Again, thanks for the help guys.
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07-27-05, 03:48 PM
#8
Pulling the subframe does look like a nice option if you want to clean everything up, but you don't need to pull the subframe or the diff (or mess with the axles at all) to replace suspension bushings. Here's my write-up for replacing pillow ***** without even removing the arms from the car (even though the pics show the lower arm loose from the car):
http://maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/susp...lls/index.html
I have also swapped pillow ***** with a big C-clamp looking thing from Harbor Freight, but I found that bolts and washers was easier since you don't have to support the weight of the clamp while trying to get everything lined up. And I have used a hydraulic press. The press is definitely the best, but if you would prefer to just swap the bushings in the driveway without removing the suspension arms, the bolts and washers method works just fine for the pillow *****.
To replace the other bushings (besides the pillow *****), you'll almost certainly need to remove the arms from the car and use a press. That's what I used for the non-pillowball bushings in my suspension.
-Max
http://maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/susp...lls/index.html
I have also swapped pillow ***** with a big C-clamp looking thing from Harbor Freight, but I found that bolts and washers was easier since you don't have to support the weight of the clamp while trying to get everything lined up. And I have used a hydraulic press. The press is definitely the best, but if you would prefer to just swap the bushings in the driveway without removing the suspension arms, the bolts and washers method works just fine for the pillow *****.
To replace the other bushings (besides the pillow *****), you'll almost certainly need to remove the arms from the car and use a press. That's what I used for the non-pillowball bushings in my suspension.
-Max
07-27-05, 04:23 PM
#9
Make sure you have a big hydraulic press handy for the bushing replacement... the pillow ball bushings did come out easier. I would expect this to take the better part of a weekend to remove the parts from the car, press out/in the bushings and reinstall.
I did them on my car... and don't want to ever do another set. They are a major PITA but must be done. At this point in the game most FD's need new pillowballs at the minimum ($300+ in parts) and then bushing replacement.
I have JIMLAB delrin bushings and installed zerk fittings... no squeaks yet... but my exhaust may be muting it you never know.
The payoff is worth the work. My car handles great and I'm sure that contributed to it.
I did them on my car... and don't want to ever do another set. They are a major PITA but must be done. At this point in the game most FD's need new pillowballs at the minimum ($300+ in parts) and then bushing replacement.
I have JIMLAB delrin bushings and installed zerk fittings... no squeaks yet... but my exhaust may be muting it you never know.
The payoff is worth the work. My car handles great and I'm sure that contributed to it.
07-27-05, 07:00 PM
#10
Rotary Freak
Originally Posted by gnx7
Make sure you have a big hydraulic press handy for the bushing replacement... the pillow ball bushings did come out easier. I would expect this to take the better part of a weekend to remove the parts from the car, press out/in the bushings and reinstall.
I did them on my car... and don't want to ever do another set. They are a major PITA but must be done. At this point in the game most FD's need new pillowballs at the minimum ($300+ in parts) and then bushing replacement.
I have JIMLAB delrin bushings and installed zerk fittings... no squeaks yet... but my exhaust may be muting it you never know.
The payoff is worth the work. My car handles great and I'm sure that contributed to it.
I did them on my car... and don't want to ever do another set. They are a major PITA but must be done. At this point in the game most FD's need new pillowballs at the minimum ($300+ in parts) and then bushing replacement.
I have JIMLAB delrin bushings and installed zerk fittings... no squeaks yet... but my exhaust may be muting it you never know.
The payoff is worth the work. My car handles great and I'm sure that contributed to it.
07-31-05, 12:36 PM
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Hey, thanks for all of the input guys. Yeah, I did invest in a 6 ton arbor that I plan on using for the bushings (remember this being a major point from one of JimLab's posts in the past). I'll also order all of the seals at the same time I order the pushings. I'll have to give a call in to Ray sometime this coming week or next (can't work on the car this coming weekend anyway). Thanks again for all of the info.
07-31-05, 07:43 PM
#12
The 6-ton press might be too small. I got a 6-ton and then returned it (and got a 12-ton) when I realized that the distance between the press and the surface below looked too small to install a rear lower control arm inner bushing. I didn't actually try it, but it looked too small and I didn't want to have to pull the arm off twice.
Jimlab's bushings are made from Nylatron, not Delrin, IIRC.
-Max
Jimlab's bushings are made from Nylatron, not Delrin, IIRC.
-Max
08-01-05, 07:05 AM
#13
Lives on the Forum
I've got the Harbor Freight a-frame 12 ton press and have done everything with it. I got mine on sale for $100 and free shipping IIRC. Even so they're only $120 and the press will pay for itself after you use it a few times. It really is a bargain compared with going to a machine shop for everything.
Here's 7racer pressing his rear wheel bearing in at my place one night:
Here's 7racer pressing his rear wheel bearing in at my place one night:
08-09-05, 10:02 AM
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Gotcha guys, thanks again so much for all of the help, would someone know of a place that I would be able to look up the part numbers for the bushings. I ordered the whole lot of them but don't know what part number correlates to what. Anyone have any ideas??
08-09-05, 12:31 PM
#15
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
doh! don't post that pic...my hair is all messy 
anyways, you could download the service manual from iluvmyrx7 that should help you match the parts with the right part. It also has the torque numbers. If not the parts fische would work too.
anyways, you could download the service manual from iluvmyrx7 that should help you match the parts with the right part. It also has the torque numbers. If not the parts fische would work too.
08-09-05, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 7racer
doh! don't post that pic...my hair is all messy
anyways, you could download the service manual from iluvmyrx7 that should help you match the parts with the right part. It also has the torque numbers. If not the parts fische would work too.
anyways, you could download the service manual from iluvmyrx7 that should help you match the parts with the right part. It also has the torque numbers. If not the parts fische would work too.
oh wow, thanks 7racer, lookin up the stuff now.
08-10-05, 08:32 PM
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ok, just looked over the shop manual, thanks again 7racer. A couple of questions though:
What kind of grease should I be using to lube these buhings (the grease that goes between the bushing and the seals??) Also, it says to use soapy water to get the bushings in, should I be using this or a little bit of grease?? Also, anyone have any recommendation of how to get the trailing arm off without cutting the bushing off (how is the trailing arm held on to the bushing, is it just comperssion force??)
Any info would be great, and thanks so much for the help guys.
What kind of grease should I be using to lube these buhings (the grease that goes between the bushing and the seals??) Also, it says to use soapy water to get the bushings in, should I be using this or a little bit of grease?? Also, anyone have any recommendation of how to get the trailing arm off without cutting the bushing off (how is the trailing arm held on to the bushing, is it just comperssion force??)
Any info would be great, and thanks so much for the help guys.
08-25-05, 03:39 PM
#19
The trailing arm connects to the body with a bolt through it's bushing. The trailing connects to the suspension with a screw (bolt) in it's end. Undo these two fasteners and the traling arm will be free. It is very simple.
-Max
-Max
08-26-05, 06:02 PM
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Gotcha, guys thanks so much for all of the help, it's really appreciated. Gonna try and do all of the bushings next weekend, will see how it goes, haven't really had time on the weekends up till this point. Not gonna do the coilovers at this point like I had planned, although I think I might be doing it in the near future, gonna save up for the tein flexs, will see how the bushings go first. Thanks again guys.
09-11-05, 05:14 PM
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Ok guys, quick update, about 2 weekends and a broken finger (seriously) later, I've got all of the suspension bushings replaced and re-greased all of the ball joints. The car feels a hell of a lot more stable, and the clunking is basically gone. I think I'm still gonna invest in some coilovers, but need a couple of weeks for my finger to heal. Thanks again for all of the help guys. Wound up using the arbor for most of it, but ultimately used the c-clamp method for the ones where the auuper part of the arbor got in the way. For anyone with questions on the bushings, just for reference:
4 bushings on each side up front (4 on the left up front and 4 on the right up front)
and it's either 7 or 8 per side in the back (7 on the right, 7 on the left).
Hope to god never to have to do that again...............
4 bushings on each side up front (4 on the left up front and 4 on the right up front)
and it's either 7 or 8 per side in the back (7 on the right, 7 on the left).
Hope to god never to have to do that again...............
09-11-05, 05:50 PM
#22
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
lol congrats! Did you really break your finger doing the bushings???
anyways, it does get easier the second time around....but I'm with you...once is enough:P
anyways, it does get easier the second time around....but I'm with you...once is enough:P
09-12-05, 02:43 AM
#23
Rotary Freak
Congrats on getting the job done. How did you break your finger? I am serious ly considering paying someone to install new bushings on my car... Everything I've read and heard sounds like the job is going to suck big-time! ****.
09-12-05, 11:43 AM
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yeah, fractured my little finger. basically one of the supporting pieces from the arbor had kicked out cause i had not placed it right and it hit my hand and threw my hand into one of the outer support beams of the arbor (crunching the finger between the support pieces and the support beam of the arbor). not so bad though, doesn't really hurt unless I try to close my fist tight.
i do not, and repeat, do not recommend someone doing this by themselves if this is the first time they're doing it, there were a number of times I had to have someone hold a part in place while I set adjustments and doing the re-install.
one thing you guys might want to look into is getting:
a pillow ball spreader
a bushing puller kit from autozone (can rent for $100 and get all of your money back when you return it) or one of the strongest C-clamps you can find, I broke a heavy duty one pushing one of the bushings out
i do not, and repeat, do not recommend someone doing this by themselves if this is the first time they're doing it, there were a number of times I had to have someone hold a part in place while I set adjustments and doing the re-install.
one thing you guys might want to look into is getting:
a pillow ball spreader
a bushing puller kit from autozone (can rent for $100 and get all of your money back when you return it) or one of the strongest C-clamps you can find, I broke a heavy duty one pushing one of the bushings out
09-12-05, 11:46 AM
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Oh, and if you can afford to have someone do it, have someone else do it. it took me about 12 hours this weekend and 16 hours last weekend to do this (literally), about 10 of the hourse were spent figuring out how to get everything out and in, but that's still about 18 hours of labor for a novice. don't recommend doing it unless you've got someone that knows what they're doing or at least an extra pair of hands and the mazda shop manual.