Need help selecting appropriate suspension system for FD
10-05-10, 11:37 AM
#1
Need help selecting appropriate suspension system for FD
Alright, i've done a bunch of reading, i've read through HC's suspension thread, and used it for alignment setup, but i'm still looking for input.
This winter i'm going to be collecting all the stuff I need for repairs and upgrades for the spring lapping and autocross season. My big question revolves around dampers. I need help selecting an option that will fit my needs. Money is definitely an object.
I still have to get the car on a dyno, but i guesstimate it's putting out around the 300whp mark.
Relevant mods to this conversation:
Currently on stock R1 dampers / springs
stock bars
replaced all pillowballs in the rear
RotaryExtreme trailing arms and toe links
stock brakes
Toyo R888's for lapping and autocross
As it sits right now, the car is pretty predictable at the limit. The R1 Dampers are a little harsh on the street, but for a basically stock suspension, it's managed to turn some great times on R-comps.
Nosedive on braking is a major problem. With the R-comps, it's overloading the front tires, and activating the ABS under heavy braking. Rears are probably doing a whole lot of not much.
Part of my problem is I haven't driven Rx7's with upgraded dampers / springs, so i don't know where to start. The car sees mostly street use, with about 10+ autocrossing events per season, and lapping. 2 days this summer at Mosport, looking to do more. given my power level, and amount of lapping / racing i'm doing, what's the best bang for my dollar?
Here's the options i've considered.
Koni Yellows w GC sleeves& ERS
Tokico Illuminas w GC sleeves & ERS
Sending in the stock shocks to Koni, and having inserts put in, adding sleeves and springs, if possible.
Pettit Racing Stage 2 coilovers
HSD coilovers (i don't know how excited I am about pillow ball top mounts)
BC Racing (not too hot on these, Modified gave them a pretty lukewarm review on their Rx8 project, also pillowballs)
Tein Coilovers (which ones are the best for this application?)
theres so many options, and I don't want to waste time and energy going through systems i'm not going to be happy with. It's got to perform well on the track, and still be liveable on the street. I'm trying to keep it to around $1500. Preferably more liveable than the R1 stock dampers
My big issue is by the time you pay for konis and GC's, you're almost in entry level coilover territory. Help!
Matt
This winter i'm going to be collecting all the stuff I need for repairs and upgrades for the spring lapping and autocross season. My big question revolves around dampers. I need help selecting an option that will fit my needs. Money is definitely an object.
I still have to get the car on a dyno, but i guesstimate it's putting out around the 300whp mark.
Relevant mods to this conversation:
Currently on stock R1 dampers / springs
stock bars
replaced all pillowballs in the rear
RotaryExtreme trailing arms and toe links
stock brakes
Toyo R888's for lapping and autocross
As it sits right now, the car is pretty predictable at the limit. The R1 Dampers are a little harsh on the street, but for a basically stock suspension, it's managed to turn some great times on R-comps.
Nosedive on braking is a major problem. With the R-comps, it's overloading the front tires, and activating the ABS under heavy braking. Rears are probably doing a whole lot of not much.
Part of my problem is I haven't driven Rx7's with upgraded dampers / springs, so i don't know where to start. The car sees mostly street use, with about 10+ autocrossing events per season, and lapping. 2 days this summer at Mosport, looking to do more. given my power level, and amount of lapping / racing i'm doing, what's the best bang for my dollar?
Here's the options i've considered.
Koni Yellows w GC sleeves& ERS
Tokico Illuminas w GC sleeves & ERS
Sending in the stock shocks to Koni, and having inserts put in, adding sleeves and springs, if possible.
Pettit Racing Stage 2 coilovers
HSD coilovers (i don't know how excited I am about pillow ball top mounts)
BC Racing (not too hot on these, Modified gave them a pretty lukewarm review on their Rx8 project, also pillowballs)
Tein Coilovers (which ones are the best for this application?)
theres so many options, and I don't want to waste time and energy going through systems i'm not going to be happy with. It's got to perform well on the track, and still be liveable on the street. I'm trying to keep it to around $1500. Preferably more liveable than the R1 stock dampers
My big issue is by the time you pay for konis and GC's, you're almost in entry level coilover territory. Help!
Matt
10-05-10, 02:34 PM
#4
The reality?
There's very little in the way of any quantifiable data about shocks/coilovers in terms of performance, either writ large, but especially for FD's.
Unless you're buying custom race dampers like Penske/Moton/JRZ/Ohlins, where they'll build exactly what you want and they are probably all about the same (though there's plenty of voices out there claiming one or the other is "way" better than the rest), most of the other stuff is just subjective opinions on "feel" from relatively few owners.
That's not to say that there isn't some good stuff out there besides the race stuff, but it's hard to tell what it is, and I've noticed a lot of names come and go... there's a rash of folks claiming they are great for a while, then not, and then some other flavor of the month comes along.
I have heard positive things about the valving in the Pettit stuff.
There's very little in the way of any quantifiable data about shocks/coilovers in terms of performance, either writ large, but especially for FD's.
Unless you're buying custom race dampers like Penske/Moton/JRZ/Ohlins, where they'll build exactly what you want and they are probably all about the same (though there's plenty of voices out there claiming one or the other is "way" better than the rest), most of the other stuff is just subjective opinions on "feel" from relatively few owners.
That's not to say that there isn't some good stuff out there besides the race stuff, but it's hard to tell what it is, and I've noticed a lot of names come and go... there's a rash of folks claiming they are great for a while, then not, and then some other flavor of the month comes along.
I have heard positive things about the valving in the Pettit stuff.
10-05-10, 03:48 PM
#5
^What he said is very true.
I'm a big fan of Koni shocks and when paired with a Ground Control coilover setup using generic 2.5"diameter Eibach Racing Springs results in a very nice, well supported, easily tunable package and is affordable. I'm using Ptrhahn's old setup and had the shocks rebuilt and played with different spring rates for a while just for the helluvit.
That said the Pettit setup seems quite nice and is well priced as well. My only question is with regards to support if a shock blows or needs rebuilding.
When using R-comps, you can benefit from stiffer springs to avoid standing the car on its nose under braking and for better cornering. Less sticky tires don't need as much spring rate. I'd say that 450-500 # rates up front is a good minimum starting point for R-comps. I'd go 500# fronts for R-comps and the off the shelf Koni can handle that.
Remember that everything wears over time and requires maintenance - including shocks. Track duty puts a lot of heat and stress on the oil inside the shocks. Anything with oil will require an oil change over time
I'm a big fan of Koni shocks and when paired with a Ground Control coilover setup using generic 2.5"diameter Eibach Racing Springs results in a very nice, well supported, easily tunable package and is affordable. I'm using Ptrhahn's old setup and had the shocks rebuilt and played with different spring rates for a while just for the helluvit.
That said the Pettit setup seems quite nice and is well priced as well. My only question is with regards to support if a shock blows or needs rebuilding.
When using R-comps, you can benefit from stiffer springs to avoid standing the car on its nose under braking and for better cornering. Less sticky tires don't need as much spring rate. I'd say that 450-500 # rates up front is a good minimum starting point for R-comps. I'd go 500# fronts for R-comps and the off the shelf Koni can handle that.
Remember that everything wears over time and requires maintenance - including shocks. Track duty puts a lot of heat and stress on the oil inside the shocks. Anything with oil will require an oil change over time
10-05-10, 04:32 PM
#6
Thanks. My friend has been co-driving my car at the last few events, and he's quite a bit quicker than me in my own car, but at the last event was bitching about the brakes, and the ABS being too intrusive, but i think it was just the stock springs standing the car on the nose and overloading the tires. I was even looking at just some Tein S techs to lower the car and stiffen things up a bit in the interim,but i think if i'm going to spend money, i'd rather do it once and be done with it.
I agree on the Pettit racing stuff... if the valving is good, and the build quality is good, then the only thing i'd be concerned with is serviceability. I'll fire off an email to them and see what the deal is with that. It might be the best option. By the time you buy illuminas and GC's, you're almost at that price point anyway.
the hard part for me is getting this one past my wife.. i'm on an allowance now, with a baby on the way....
I agree on the Pettit racing stuff... if the valving is good, and the build quality is good, then the only thing i'd be concerned with is serviceability. I'll fire off an email to them and see what the deal is with that. It might be the best option. By the time you buy illuminas and GC's, you're almost at that price point anyway.
the hard part for me is getting this one past my wife.. i'm on an allowance now, with a baby on the way....
10-05-10, 05:46 PM
#7
Another budget option is the Tein S Tech or H Tech springs on the stock shocks. I think the H techs are close to 400# front and almost 300# rear w/o as much of a drop as the S Techs. If the mileage on the shocks isn't too bad, they should be able to handle the higher spring rates. The stock shocks are surprisingly good.
