After going through the "V700 for the street" thread, and reading the general concensus that R-compound doesn't work on the street due to repeated heat-cycling diminishing their performance, I was wondering if anyone has any solid data on what "non-diminishing due to heat cycling" true street tire in the "nearest" to R-compound. We're talking dry grip and handling only. The three obvious top contenders are:

1. S03's
Supposed to be a nice street tire, but they are HEAVY.

2. T1S
Unclear on grip in comparison to other top tires (because the 'Rack doesn't sell 'em), but they are VERY light.

3. G-force KDs.
Marketed as near-R, but VERY expensive, old fasioned looking, and i can't find any weight data on them.

4. Other? Pirelli?

 

i spoke to some guys at the autox events they were running Toyo T1-S. they said they didnt like them.

Their reasoning was that hte block on teh edge of the tires were too small... so when you push the tires they don't give much feedback.

compare a pic of toyo T1-s from tire rack to say the pic of kumho Esctra MX or the falken Azenis Sport and u get the idea.

Me personally i would go for falken, but they don't come in 225/50/16, closest is 205/55/16

so i would go wtih kumho MX

 

Peter:

I've got no "solid data" but I can tell you that I've heat cycled the hell out of my Toyo RA-1's after almost a full year (5k miles) of street, track and autocross use, and they still feel at least twice as sticky as the Bridgestone RE-71's I replaced with them. I think that is what you are using, so I thought I'd chime in with a non-answer to your question.

You are welcome to drive my car anytime and see for yourself.

 

The T1-S is very close to R-compound grip on concrete. Then again, concrete makes every tire feel like it has tons of grip. On regular asphalt, it's probably the best overall street tire that I've driven. I also have a lot of high praise for the BFG KDW's.

S03's and KD's cost more than Hoosiers. That's f**kin' ridiculous. After racing on R-compounds, you'll never want to go back to street tires for competition driving. On the street, it's mostly straightline acceleration anyhow. (None of the posers want to try and take corners with you ... ) So, for me, the thing is how much for how long .... and with the amount of negative camber and toe out that I run, the Tirerack treadwear ratings don't mean squat.

Otherwise, the Pirelli P-Zero Nero look good (limited sizing though). And for cheap, the Yokohama ES100's.

 

The reason i ask is, my car does see weekend/occasional trip duty (5k per year), but i also take it to the track. Most guys use R-compound tires... sometimes on stock rims, BUT:

A. I really don't want to get into alot of "track-only" equipment. Its a slippery slope, and if i wanted a stripped, trailered car on slicks, i'll buy a formula ford. This is a street car. I think its silly to build a production-based race car if you don't have to

B. I don't have any place to store a track trailer, so for far away tracks like WGI, i need to run on the same wheels i track.

C. My car is set up for the staggered 17" wheel setup i run, and therefor won't be right w/ a stock wheel config, and two sets of lightweight aftermarket wheels is expensive.

KDs are expenive, but IF they are lightweight and the stickiest of the bunch then they are worth considering

As are the RA1s as Scot suggested...

 

FWIW, the Toyo T1-S was the spec tire for the World Challenge Touring or GT class last year (I can't remember which one it was). This year, it's the Toyo RA1. Both very good choices, IMO.

 

I have heard that the Falken is the stickiest non-R tire. Not too expensive either.

 

And unfortunately not available in anything near the sizes i'd need. AFAIK.

I'd be looking for at 255/40/17 front, 275/40/17 rear.

 

i have s-03's ordered. Ill let you know how they feel. Its going to be a huge difference over stock anyways, because the wheels i bought are 18x9, 18x10

 

the stickiest street tire i think you can get is the pirelli P-zero asymectrico it has a tred wear rating of 140... i think the s03's are 220.

 

You might also give the Yokohama A032's a look. Possibly the hard compound, if you're looking for longer treadlife. Mid-range R-compound like grip with street-ability.

 

my buddy rolls around on 235/45/17 and 275/40/17 AO32r's. nice and sticky, last about 5K miles and work well all around. rain isnt the best idea with the tires though.
question...if the FALKEN AZENIS are such great tires(my little bro just bought a set for the crx) why the hell havent they put them in real sizes for RWD cars? all sizes i see are for FWD. for the price i would love to have them on my car
kris

 

Here are some issues to think about regarding r-compound tires and trailering, ESPECIALLY if you do tracks that are several hours away from home (which is typically the case if you like variety).

Scenario 1: You buy r-compound tires for the street and track. Aside from the obvious heat cycling issues you will find that your r-compounds won't last long. Not a surprise. But as your driving speeds increase on the track b/c of the new found adhesion you will find that the tread/blocks/lines begin to obliterate to nothing. This doesn't necessarily mean that the tire isn't good anymore, but it means that you will have to seriously pray that it doesn't rain on your ride home (which, again, could be several hours away). I can't tell you how many times this happened to me and how scared I was being on the road. Earlier this year, after it snowed during the Spring MADS event at VIR I said never again. I got online and bought a 3x4' trailer from harbour freight for $180 and bought a used hitch made by UHAUL.

Scenario 2, in which you buy street tires for the street and track is very similar to scenario 1. As your speed increases on the track you will begin to kill your tires. If your street tires don't fade within several days of tracking then you aren't pushing enough and that's ok too. But if you track hard (let say strong intermediate and advance) then you'll just being going to Tirerack more often. So much so that you could have easily paid off the small car trailer and hitch. Also, you will most definitely run into the same issues with the weather at and after the track event. Being on the road on the highway for several hours with tires that have no real thread (blocks) is crazy. The only way this really makes sense from a safety standpoint is too basically prematurely discard your tires and get new ones so you don't find yourself in a bind.

Just a few thoughts based on my experiences. Btw, trailers with a simple box attached at the end are fabulous b/c you can put some much crap in there that would have otherwised scratched up your interior. Ever been at a track event in the pouring rain and then have to stuff all the wet equipment in your car (and then drive several hours)?

Ramon

 

Amen. I was there and fortunately had plenty of tread on my relatively new R's at that point.

Jeez - you just summed up exactly my current situation. My tires are still fine for the track/AX but are getting marginal for the street. I'm curious what Peter decides to do here because I have no fricken clue what I'm going to do next.

 

You do realize that treadwear ratings have nothing whatsoever to do w/ grip right? They are not standardized ratings, and vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, so the only thing they are good for is comparing how long a certain tire from a certain manufacturer will last compared to how long another tire from the SAME manufacturer will last. Its not a traction rating, FY! :-)

 

All:
thanks for all the imput. I do realize that theres no free lunch, and that there is no real steet/track tire out there that doesn't have compromises somewhere.

I am just trying to stay committed to keeping this a street car, and not waking in a year w/ a trailer queen. Seriously, as stated before, you're better off buying a real racecar.

Sounds like the compromise tires are:

1. KDs. You coud practically buy an extra set of wheels for the cost of these things...

2. A032s, i'd already run them if it wasn't for the noise.

3. RA1s... prolly a little dangerous on the street.

hmmm...

 

Since I decided on getting the U-haul hitch and the tire trailer, I've at least doubled the life of my Victoracers. 6 months of fairly heavy (2-3 events/mo.) auto-x duty and a couple time trials ... I've still got ~50% tread left on them and they still feel tacky. For competition driving, it's a no-brainer ... the tire trailer and hitch pay for themselves.

 

my buddy doesnt have really any noise assosiated with the AO32r's from what i recall. ill get his word on it later this week. they were loud with a normal alignment setting, but he used the street setting from pettit on 17's. with it set up as is, i dont recall it making noise. i was the one taking it to and from the alignment shop and remember noisy tires to the shop, not noisy on the way back
kris

 

about the trailor...i would get one if it wasnt for my loving little brother that will haul the tires to and from in either the truck or 4runner(the truck is actually his 90 crx Si that is set up for racing also. it really is a truck since we had a whole engine swap and engine hoist in there at one time. dont ask) its amazing what can be crammed into such little spaces(hey im talking about the car here)
kris

 

Everyset of A032s i've ever heard (several among the local track guys) sound like 4x4 mudding tires... Awful.

They are so loud at speed, that on the track, when my friends pass me, i hear their tires screaming, not their motors. unbelievable.

 

I like Pirelli P-Zero Asymmetrics. They're the stickiest street tires I've ever had...

 

Exactly. I have tried to explain this in the past but you do a better job. If you are going to compete you actually save money by getting the extra wheels/tires and a trailer. And god help you if on the way to the track one morning on your competition tires you pick up a nail. Game over for the day Have a seperate set of tires for competition and drag them to the track somehow.

 

Unfortunately, in cases like mine it isn't about the money. I'd love to get a tire trailer and a 2nd set of wheels, but I live in a high rise condo smack in the middle of a city and I have nowhere to store a trailer (or even a 2nd set of tires). I guess I could rent a storage space in the ghetto somewhere, but that would be such a PIA it's not worth it. Otherwise, I'd be all over the trailer idea.

.... I could store it at Peter's house though...

 

I've caught alot of crap from my city-girl wife about "making" her move out to the burbs where i can afford a real garage. Scot, how the heck do you work on your car in a highrise?! Does it get garage space?

 

I have run the KD pn my Fb for the lasy 11,000 miles, and I absolutly love them.
They arte in a smaller size than what you FD guys will run, but as a daily driver tire, I could not have been more satisfied.
As an auto-x tire, I an consistantly within a half second of the guys at the fromt of my class, most of which are running V700's. I am confident that that half second could easily be made up with a little more perfection from myself.
Not sure how much they will run in largewr sizes, but I only paid $153 for mine.