N1 Coilovers?
07-26-02, 12:23 AM
#27
Pooooffff!!!!! and he's gone. Just like the magic dragon. I believe his work here is done.
That illustration's cool. Good way to make it easy on yourself. Use the right wrench and little elbow grease.
Laters.
That illustration's cool. Good way to make it easy on yourself. Use the right wrench and little elbow grease.
Laters.
Last edited by ARD T2; 07-26-02 at 12:28 AM.
07-26-02, 06:17 PM
#28
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cool, thanks for the help guys.
i got them through jason, he didn't seem to know much about them. the price was right so i didn't ask as many questions as i should have, like what happens if i need a replacement (!)
don't worry rishie, when i do buy wheels they will be through you. i wanted to get the Fikses before the price went up, but just couldn't swing it.
i got them through jason, he didn't seem to know much about them. the price was right so i didn't ask as many questions as i should have, like what happens if i need a replacement (!)
don't worry rishie, when i do buy wheels they will be through you. i wanted to get the Fikses before the price went up, but just couldn't swing it.
07-29-02, 10:50 AM
#30
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Originally posted by EricM
There is no such thing as "lower you car too much" hurt handling. The lower the CG, the more lateral acceleration you're gonna pull provided alignment is not messed up. And if you still have stock springs, yes no suspension travel is bad. That's why you have to go with stiff springs. That's why ricers who cut their stock springs to lower their car is stupid.
There is no such thing as "lower you car too much" hurt handling. The lower the CG, the more lateral acceleration you're gonna pull provided alignment is not messed up. And if you still have stock springs, yes no suspension travel is bad. That's why you have to go with stiff springs. That's why ricers who cut their stock springs to lower their car is stupid.
Reason #1: Lowering the CG will ALWAYS reduce lateral weight transfer, but it will also relocate the CG with respect to the roll center. it is possible to set up a car that has no body roll because none of the weight is transfered through the springs, it is all transfered directly through the roll center. At this point, you pretty much have a kart with no suspension. This extreme cannot be reached with an Rx-7 (I really doubt it), but it is all a matter of degree.
Reason #2: You can lower the car too much and screw up the camber curve. The camber changes in roll. You change the characteristics of this curve by lowering the car. Real race cars have adjustable suspension pickups on the chassis which allows them to reduce the ride height without altering this curve. They will also have multiple sets of control arms to change the geometry.
Reason #3: Ground clearance needs to be figured out based on the surface conditions the car will run on. More suspension travel is needed for larger bumps.
Reason #4: All coil over setups we are going to be talking about here are setup in a such that the geometry makes them regressive. That is, the spring rate reduces with suspension travel because of the angle of the spring with respect to the travel of the suspension. When you lower the car, you are moving yourself farther along on this curve.
Reason #5: Cutting springs is not elegant and can screw up the spring if done wrong, but your post indicates that you don't understand that cutting the spring DOES make it stiffer. Part of the spring stiffness equation includes the number of active coils.
You can lower a car with with the use of coil overs too much where the handling starts to degrade. Some of these factors will have varying impacts on the different generation cars based on the geometry. In a 3rd gen, I don't expect #4 would really play a part. But I expect #2 would. I just wanted to point out that it IS possible to lower a car too much.
The rule of thumb that I have heard is that going past the point where the lower arm is horizontal is bad.
Last edited by sbaker25; 07-29-02 at 10:53 AM.
07-29-02, 07:58 PM
#32
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Originally posted by sbaker25
This is not true.
Reason #1: Lowering the CG will ALWAYS reduce lateral weight transfer, but it will also relocate the CG with respect to the roll center. it is possible to set up a car that has no body roll because none of the weight is transfered through the springs, it is all transfered directly through the roll center. At this point, you pretty much have a kart with no suspension. This extreme cannot be reached with an Rx-7 (I really doubt it), but it is all a matter of degree.
Reason #2: You can lower the car too much and screw up the camber curve. The camber changes in roll. You change the characteristics of this curve by lowering the car. Real race cars have adjustable suspension pickups on the chassis which allows them to reduce the ride height without altering this curve. They will also have multiple sets of control arms to change the geometry.
Reason #3: Ground clearance needs to be figured out based on the surface conditions the car will run on. More suspension travel is needed for larger bumps.
Reason #4: All coil over setups we are going to be talking about here are setup in a such that the geometry makes them regressive. That is, the spring rate reduces with suspension travel because of the angle of the spring with respect to the travel of the suspension. When you lower the car, you are moving yourself farther along on this curve.
Reason #5: Cutting springs is not elegant and can screw up the spring if done wrong, but your post indicates that you don't understand that cutting the spring DOES make it stiffer. Part of the spring stiffness equation includes the number of active coils.
You can lower a car with with the use of coil overs too much where the handling starts to degrade. Some of these factors will have varying impacts on the different generation cars based on the geometry. In a 3rd gen, I don't expect #4 would really play a part. But I expect #2 would. I just wanted to point out that it IS possible to lower a car too much.
The rule of thumb that I have heard is that going past the point where the lower arm is horizontal is bad.
This is not true.
Reason #1: Lowering the CG will ALWAYS reduce lateral weight transfer, but it will also relocate the CG with respect to the roll center. it is possible to set up a car that has no body roll because none of the weight is transfered through the springs, it is all transfered directly through the roll center. At this point, you pretty much have a kart with no suspension. This extreme cannot be reached with an Rx-7 (I really doubt it), but it is all a matter of degree.
Reason #2: You can lower the car too much and screw up the camber curve. The camber changes in roll. You change the characteristics of this curve by lowering the car. Real race cars have adjustable suspension pickups on the chassis which allows them to reduce the ride height without altering this curve. They will also have multiple sets of control arms to change the geometry.
Reason #3: Ground clearance needs to be figured out based on the surface conditions the car will run on. More suspension travel is needed for larger bumps.
Reason #4: All coil over setups we are going to be talking about here are setup in a such that the geometry makes them regressive. That is, the spring rate reduces with suspension travel because of the angle of the spring with respect to the travel of the suspension. When you lower the car, you are moving yourself farther along on this curve.
Reason #5: Cutting springs is not elegant and can screw up the spring if done wrong, but your post indicates that you don't understand that cutting the spring DOES make it stiffer. Part of the spring stiffness equation includes the number of active coils.
You can lower a car with with the use of coil overs too much where the handling starts to degrade. Some of these factors will have varying impacts on the different generation cars based on the geometry. In a 3rd gen, I don't expect #4 would really play a part. But I expect #2 would. I just wanted to point out that it IS possible to lower a car too much.
The rule of thumb that I have heard is that going past the point where the lower arm is horizontal is bad.
07-30-02, 01:10 PM
#33
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sbaker,
right, right, I forgot about the suspension geometry. I was thinking about the longer suspension arms made by somebody in AUS or NZ. But regarding the springs, the number of active coils does play a part and make it stiffer, but it doesn't make it stronger since it's the same springs w/ same wire diameter and spring diameter. Near bottom out at solid height spring, the stress spikes out and could possibly break it or fatigued the spring. Aftermarket springs or adjustable coilovers were designed with that in mind. That's what I mean. Again of course having an unequal length arm is better than parallel arm in countering roll.
For those who want to buy these N1 coilovers, I suggest you take a ride with somebody who actually has them on their FD. The spring constant is 660/550 lb/in. Pretty stiff ride indeed.
right, right, I forgot about the suspension geometry. I was thinking about the longer suspension arms made by somebody in AUS or NZ. But regarding the springs, the number of active coils does play a part and make it stiffer, but it doesn't make it stronger since it's the same springs w/ same wire diameter and spring diameter. Near bottom out at solid height spring, the stress spikes out and could possibly break it or fatigued the spring. Aftermarket springs or adjustable coilovers were designed with that in mind. That's what I mean. Again of course having an unequal length arm is better than parallel arm in countering roll.
For those who want to buy these N1 coilovers, I suggest you take a ride with somebody who actually has them on their FD. The spring constant is 660/550 lb/in. Pretty stiff ride indeed.
08-02-02, 05:07 PM
#36
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JIC FLT A2 are a single monotube design dampener with a full threaded shell case that allows ride height to be adjusted seperately from spring perch, that way you can adjust ride height for your car without losing any suspension travel. the FLT A2 is 15 way dampening adjustable and they have an msrp of $1,850.00.
Contact ARD in san jose ca
(408) 947 0505.
They are an official JIC Magic dealer. ask for Rishie he will take car of you.
your friendly neighbohood magicman
Contact ARD in san jose ca
(408) 947 0505.
They are an official JIC Magic dealer. ask for Rishie he will take car of you.
your friendly neighbohood magicman
