Looking for a good street setup
01-04-12, 09:21 AM
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Looking for a good street setup
I'm wanting to go to a more aggressive street setup for my suspension, but without going with coilovers. My only problem is I need just a little guidence with making this setup nice and not just cut-rate. I have never re-done a suspension on an FC before and I want to make sure I steer clear of crap products. My plans thus far:
-RS*R Race Springs
-KONI Adjustable shocks
-Mazdatrix Bumpsteer kit
Now things I am questionable about:
-what inner tie rods should I use? The only ones ive been able to find besides OEM are for the manual rack, which I do not have. Id prefer to stick with OEM but I have no idea How good they will be for a lowered car.
-Would a TEIN EDFC work on these shocks? (to give a new meaning to my GXL's AAS)
-Energy Suspension or Prothane Suspension for polyurathane bushings? Both about the same price, but I don't know which would end up being better.
-Would the DTSS eliminator be a wise decision? (car will be used for autocross)
-Rear camber adjuster (RB) necessary?
I would really like to make this a "do it once, do it right" project, so anyone who has had good experience with suspension work I would appreciate your input so I don't f**k it up hahaha
-RS*R Race Springs
-KONI Adjustable shocks
-Mazdatrix Bumpsteer kit
Now things I am questionable about:
-what inner tie rods should I use? The only ones ive been able to find besides OEM are for the manual rack, which I do not have. Id prefer to stick with OEM but I have no idea How good they will be for a lowered car.
-Would a TEIN EDFC work on these shocks? (to give a new meaning to my GXL's AAS)
-Energy Suspension or Prothane Suspension for polyurathane bushings? Both about the same price, but I don't know which would end up being better.
-Would the DTSS eliminator be a wise decision? (car will be used for autocross)
-Rear camber adjuster (RB) necessary?
I would really like to make this a "do it once, do it right" project, so anyone who has had good experience with suspension work I would appreciate your input so I don't f**k it up hahaha
01-04-12, 01:32 PM
#2
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if you're going to use the car for autocross, you are going to need more front camber, which means you need camber plates, which means 2.5" diameter springs in the front.
the Rs*R springs are probably fine, no personal experience here. they are stock diameter in the front, so you won't be able to get enough camber in the front...
Konis are good. my friends GTUs has 400/250 springs on koni's and it rides better than stock and handles awesome.
bumpsteer kit, make sure this is legal for your auto-x class. the lower you go the more this will help.
inner tie rods, go OEM stock. we've found the aftermarket parts to be inferior in racing use. the OEM parts are more $$, but they do actually last longer.
the EDFC won't work on anything except TEIN's shocks. you don't really need it once the shocks are dialed into the springs you really won't touch it much
a poly bushing is a poly bushing....
i don't mind the DTSS, its different from other cars, but it actually does work... if you do the DTSS you cannot do the rear arm bushing without the suspension binding.
camber adjuster. if you're going to do the bumpsteer kit, do the camber adjuster.
basically the whole point of the racing suspension is to put the tire into the road so that it generates maximum traction. the first step to that is to optimize the suspension geometry, basically an alignment.
a good start is, even on a stock FC
front
zero toe, maximum caster and as much negative camber as you can get with the stock parts, or about -2.5 with camber plates
rear
on a race car zero is a good start, on the street a little toe adds stability. with the rear camber, you kind of have to take what you can get, but ideally you're running about -.5 to -1, in the real world on a lowered car, -1.5 is probably about what you're going to end up with.
the second step is tires!
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html
the Rs*R springs are probably fine, no personal experience here. they are stock diameter in the front, so you won't be able to get enough camber in the front...
Konis are good. my friends GTUs has 400/250 springs on koni's and it rides better than stock and handles awesome.
bumpsteer kit, make sure this is legal for your auto-x class. the lower you go the more this will help.
inner tie rods, go OEM stock. we've found the aftermarket parts to be inferior in racing use. the OEM parts are more $$, but they do actually last longer.
the EDFC won't work on anything except TEIN's shocks. you don't really need it once the shocks are dialed into the springs you really won't touch it much
a poly bushing is a poly bushing....
i don't mind the DTSS, its different from other cars, but it actually does work... if you do the DTSS you cannot do the rear arm bushing without the suspension binding.
camber adjuster. if you're going to do the bumpsteer kit, do the camber adjuster.
basically the whole point of the racing suspension is to put the tire into the road so that it generates maximum traction. the first step to that is to optimize the suspension geometry, basically an alignment.
a good start is, even on a stock FC
front
zero toe, maximum caster and as much negative camber as you can get with the stock parts, or about -2.5 with camber plates
rear
on a race car zero is a good start, on the street a little toe adds stability. with the rear camber, you kind of have to take what you can get, but ideally you're running about -.5 to -1, in the real world on a lowered car, -1.5 is probably about what you're going to end up with.
the second step is tires!
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html
01-04-12, 08:06 PM
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ahhh thanks! And that link was nice, ill have to check it out more later. As for tires, I was thinking about running Advan Neova AD08's for their superior traction in both wet and dry compared to Potenza RE-11's, then switch to a winter tire for the off season (basically winter here).
I'll look more into spring sizes so i can run camber plates, the reason i was leaning towards RS*R was their great build quality and the fact that its only $180 for a full set.
I'll look more into spring sizes so i can run camber plates, the reason i was leaning towards RS*R was their great build quality and the fact that its only $180 for a full set.
01-04-12, 09:17 PM
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if its more of a street car those springs are fine, but for racing you need more camber, and you can't really do both.
the hardware you choose really depends on how you want to use the car, daily driver is different from a race car. in the middle when you want to do both, you have to compromise.
for instance, the bumpsteer kit probably isn't needed on a street car that isn't lowered much. although it would be nice. however the camber link would be good even on a stock car. actually both take about half an hour to install, so you could do em later.
the shocks and springs, get done together, its about 2-3hours.
the bushings really suck, it would be good to just buy spare front arms and put the bushings in, and then swap arms, that way the cars not apart forever....
mazdatrix has a good FAQ on the DTSS bushing.
you could do it all at once, or in steps, the FC is kind of nice that way.
the hardware you choose really depends on how you want to use the car, daily driver is different from a race car. in the middle when you want to do both, you have to compromise.
for instance, the bumpsteer kit probably isn't needed on a street car that isn't lowered much. although it would be nice. however the camber link would be good even on a stock car. actually both take about half an hour to install, so you could do em later.
the shocks and springs, get done together, its about 2-3hours.
the bushings really suck, it would be good to just buy spare front arms and put the bushings in, and then swap arms, that way the cars not apart forever....
mazdatrix has a good FAQ on the DTSS bushing.
you could do it all at once, or in steps, the FC is kind of nice that way.
01-04-12, 10:18 PM
#5
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The car will be used 80% of the time for the street, seeing occasional road course, strip and autocross track time. For me, being comfortable is not very high on the priority list, I'm 19 so I can take a lot of spring rate without complaint. Based on what you said earlier, I will just keep the DTSS, and I'll try to do something about the camber. I do like a 'stanced' look, however I don't want my tires to wear like a mother on the insides.
It's nice for me because I am in shop at school for two class hours a day (near enough 120mins if you count the passing periods) and have a lift that pretty much has my name on it since my car is on there so much. It's a Rotary Lift, so fitting right?
In regards to the bushings, specifically the front arms, I still have my sport out back of the school, could I just take them from it and be okay? Or do they hold the car up? I will admit some noob-ness and confess that I haven't really looked much at the FC setup and so I can't really tell for sure (even if I did look) if they are technically needed to keep the car from sinking to the ground. The sport is by no means ever going to be back on the road (going to the scrap yard once I'm done with it
) so that is basically my spare parts car until I have everything exactly as I want it.
It's nice for me because I am in shop at school for two class hours a day (near enough 120mins if you count the passing periods) and have a lift that pretty much has my name on it since my car is on there so much. It's a Rotary Lift, so fitting right?
In regards to the bushings, specifically the front arms, I still have my sport out back of the school, could I just take them from it and be okay? Or do they hold the car up? I will admit some noob-ness and confess that I haven't really looked much at the FC setup and so I can't really tell for sure (even if I did look) if they are technically needed to keep the car from sinking to the ground. The sport is by no means ever going to be back on the road (going to the scrap yard once I'm done with it
) so that is basically my spare parts car until I have everything exactly as I want it.
01-05-12, 03:05 PM
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good times, its great to have a lift! makes life so much simpler
taking the arms off the car will mean you need to put it on blocks or something, not a big deal probably.
camber is a funny thing, in school they will teach you that any negative camber is going to eat tires, however when you corner the car hard, it leans, so the stock setting will eat tires. on the race cars we generally run about -3.5 to get even tire wear and an extreme example we raced an E46 BMW for a season and with -3.5 camber it STILL wore the outside of the tire.
on the street something around -1 will still wear like stock, it might be better if you drive hard. going more than that will get you more grip, but tire life will drop unless you drive it hard. with camber plates its really easy to have a street and a track setting.
the odd thing about springs is that if you can get the shocks right the penalty in ride is really small. my last car was a stock low mileage 87 GXL, and my friend has a GTUs with 400/250 springs, koni's, coilovers, camber plates, and an RB front sway bar. the GTUs rides better, it also handles way better. the FC is nice because the car doesn't seem to want super stiff springs, so we can have a decent ride and good handling. our honda is 800/1100 and bumps just launch it in the air...
the reason people have really stiff rides is mostly because the shocks aren't right. once you get the shocks close its like magic it just works better
taking the arms off the car will mean you need to put it on blocks or something, not a big deal probably.
camber is a funny thing, in school they will teach you that any negative camber is going to eat tires, however when you corner the car hard, it leans, so the stock setting will eat tires. on the race cars we generally run about -3.5 to get even tire wear and an extreme example we raced an E46 BMW for a season and with -3.5 camber it STILL wore the outside of the tire.
on the street something around -1 will still wear like stock, it might be better if you drive hard. going more than that will get you more grip, but tire life will drop unless you drive it hard. with camber plates its really easy to have a street and a track setting.
the odd thing about springs is that if you can get the shocks right the penalty in ride is really small. my last car was a stock low mileage 87 GXL, and my friend has a GTUs with 400/250 springs, koni's, coilovers, camber plates, and an RB front sway bar. the GTUs rides better, it also handles way better. the FC is nice because the car doesn't seem to want super stiff springs, so we can have a decent ride and good handling. our honda is 800/1100 and bumps just launch it in the air...
the reason people have really stiff rides is mostly because the shocks aren't right. once you get the shocks close its like magic it just works better
01-05-12, 10:31 PM
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Yea I knew camber wasn't a static setting, but I didn't realize how drastic of a setting you ran at. I'll save this thread from when I get around to doing it though. Thanks j9fd3s for the help.
