JIC coilovers and dented hoods...
06-28-03, 08:09 PM
#53
On hood closing: I close my hood by dropping it from 6" or so. If you latch and push, you have to be very careful not to dent the hood when you push it closed. I have seen several FDs with small dents above the latch that I believe are from pushing it closed.
Jim, I have 450/350 springs in my car now and they are pretty decent in terms of balance and not being too jarring around town. As others have mentioned, damping seems to play a big role in street comfort, so I think it is reasonable that you could have a reasonably decent ride with the JIC spring rates. The GAB super-R shocks have very high high-speed compression damping, which I believe explains their harshness on the street. With the softer springs I have, they are just decent but still pretty rough. At least the car doesn't jock me around as much as it did before. With more reasonable high speed compression damping (like Bilsteins and probably the JICs from the reports of a reasonably comfortable ride) higher spring rates could be used without making the car unbearable on the street.
The front/rear suspension frequencies play a role in the motion also, where the goal for most street cars from the factory is a 10% higher frequency in the rear. Perhaps a little less gap (say 5%) might be better for a stiffly sprung car like we are talking about. Or at least keep the rear frequency from being much lower than the front. With the stock 93 sway bars and the same tires front and rear, this tends to make the car a bit loose, but wider rear tires and/or a stiffer front sway bar can dial that out. I put a stiff front bar on my car, and I suspect I would be fine with the 550/450 springs that I found to be loose before with the stock bars.
In terms of a process, it probably makes sense to get the spring rates right (i.e. get the frequencies you want), put the tires you want on the car, and then tune the balance with sway bars. In general, with the spring rates recommended by M2 (550/450 or 450/375) and it sounds like the ones that come with the JIC coil-overs (672/504), you might be fine with the stock 94 sway bars (where the rear is smaller than it was in 93) or with the 93 rear bar and a stiffer front bar. I think my troubles with balance before were due to the sway bars, as I ran the numbers and the frequencies with the 550/450 setup seemed to be correct. Tire sizes play a role also, of course.
Blah, blah, blah... it seems like the JIC rates would be fine in terms of balance with stock 94 bars or with a set of bars where the front bar is proportionally stiffer than the rear when compared to the stock 93 setup (stiff front w/stock 93 rear, or both stiffer where the front is proportionally stiffer than stock than the rear [like +100% front / +50% rear stiffness]).
It is great to see JIC chime in and offer recognition of the issue and offer to resolve the issue for existing customers with the spacers. I've been eyeing the JICs for a while as replacements for my current setup, and I feel even better about that choice now. Bravo!
-Max
enjoys typing
Jim, I have 450/350 springs in my car now and they are pretty decent in terms of balance and not being too jarring around town. As others have mentioned, damping seems to play a big role in street comfort, so I think it is reasonable that you could have a reasonably decent ride with the JIC spring rates. The GAB super-R shocks have very high high-speed compression damping, which I believe explains their harshness on the street. With the softer springs I have, they are just decent but still pretty rough. At least the car doesn't jock me around as much as it did before. With more reasonable high speed compression damping (like Bilsteins and probably the JICs from the reports of a reasonably comfortable ride) higher spring rates could be used without making the car unbearable on the street.
The front/rear suspension frequencies play a role in the motion also, where the goal for most street cars from the factory is a 10% higher frequency in the rear. Perhaps a little less gap (say 5%) might be better for a stiffly sprung car like we are talking about. Or at least keep the rear frequency from being much lower than the front. With the stock 93 sway bars and the same tires front and rear, this tends to make the car a bit loose, but wider rear tires and/or a stiffer front sway bar can dial that out. I put a stiff front bar on my car, and I suspect I would be fine with the 550/450 springs that I found to be loose before with the stock bars.
In terms of a process, it probably makes sense to get the spring rates right (i.e. get the frequencies you want), put the tires you want on the car, and then tune the balance with sway bars. In general, with the spring rates recommended by M2 (550/450 or 450/375) and it sounds like the ones that come with the JIC coil-overs (672/504), you might be fine with the stock 94 sway bars (where the rear is smaller than it was in 93) or with the 93 rear bar and a stiffer front bar. I think my troubles with balance before were due to the sway bars, as I ran the numbers and the frequencies with the 550/450 setup seemed to be correct. Tire sizes play a role also, of course.
Blah, blah, blah... it seems like the JIC rates would be fine in terms of balance with stock 94 bars or with a set of bars where the front bar is proportionally stiffer than the rear when compared to the stock 93 setup (stiff front w/stock 93 rear, or both stiffer where the front is proportionally stiffer than stock than the rear [like +100% front / +50% rear stiffness]).
It is great to see JIC chime in and offer recognition of the issue and offer to resolve the issue for existing customers with the spacers. I've been eyeing the JICs for a while as replacements for my current setup, and I feel even better about that choice now. Bravo!
-Max
enjoys typing
Last edited by maxcooper; 06-28-03 at 08:13 PM.
06-29-03, 11:58 AM
#55
Super Snuggles
I like reading Max's write-ups too, but I like looking at his pictures best... then getting up from the computer and walking straight into a wall or the door frame because my eyes can't focus properly...
Sorry Max, couldn't resist.
Sorry Max, couldn't resist.
06-29-03, 04:09 PM
#56
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Originally posted by jimlab
I like reading Max's write-ups too, but I like looking at his pictures best... then getting up from the computer and walking straight into a wall or the door frame because my eyes can't focus properly...
I like reading Max's write-ups too, but I like looking at his pictures best... then getting up from the computer and walking straight into a wall or the door frame because my eyes can't focus properly...
My favorite Max pic is the one of his Volks where you can see his toes...
Sorry Max, you know I have a great deal of respect for you and your website rocks.
06-30-03, 06:06 AM
#58
Oji San
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Will we have to remove the whole shock assembly to fix this problem, or is it possible to just unbolt the shock from the top and "shorten" the and get enough room to install the spacer without removing the whole thing? Am I making any sense at 7 AM?
06-30-03, 06:58 AM
#59
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by maxcooper
In terms of a process, it probably makes sense to get the spring rates right (i.e. get the frequencies you want), put the tires you want on the car, and then tune the balance with sway bars.
In terms of a process, it probably makes sense to get the spring rates right (i.e. get the frequencies you want), put the tires you want on the car, and then tune the balance with sway bars.
I have to run stock springs and so spend a lot of time using the front sway bar as a tool because I can't change the real culprit: the soft stock springs.
06-30-03, 11:35 AM
#60
Super Snuggles
Originally posted by Rated R1
Will we have to remove the whole shock assembly to fix this problem, or is it possible to just unbolt the shock from the top and "shorten" the and get enough room to install the spacer without removing the whole thing? Am I making any sense at 7 AM?
Will we have to remove the whole shock assembly to fix this problem, or is it possible to just unbolt the shock from the top and "shorten" the and get enough room to install the spacer without removing the whole thing? Am I making any sense at 7 AM?
From the description I received, the upper plate (gold on my set) which attaches to the shock body and bolts to the car has to be removed, and the spacer inserted between the plate and the body. This would require removing the shocks from the car.
06-30-03, 12:37 PM
#63
Originally posted by rynberg
My favorite Max pic is the one of his Volks where you can see his toes...
Sorry Max, you know I have a great deal of respect for you and your website rocks.
My favorite Max pic is the one of his Volks where you can see his toes...
Sorry Max, you know I have a great deal of respect for you and your website rocks.
-Max
07-11-03, 11:41 PM
#67
Super Snuggles
Has anyone received their spacers? I faxed the receipt for my JICs to Kris on the 1st and nothing has shown up yet, although to be fair, no timeframe was given.
07-12-03, 12:26 AM
#68
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Originally posted by jimlab
Has anyone received their spacers? I faxed the receipt for my JICs to Kris on the 1st and nothing has shown up yet, although to be fair, no timeframe was given.
Has anyone received their spacers? I faxed the receipt for my JICs to Kris on the 1st and nothing has shown up yet, although to be fair, no timeframe was given.
- Cody
07-12-03, 02:34 PM
#69
Hey guys,
I thought JIC shipped directly to you but we ended up getting them stuffed into a suspension box. I will ship the spacers out on Monday. I only received two sets and will ship them to the first two guys who mentioned it here.
I'll need to go thru the system and see who else may be having a problem.
Thanks, Rishie
I thought JIC shipped directly to you but we ended up getting them stuffed into a suspension box. I will ship the spacers out on Monday. I only received two sets and will ship them to the first two guys who mentioned it here.
I'll need to go thru the system and see who else may be having a problem.
Thanks, Rishie
07-14-03, 05:25 PM
#71
Super Snuggles
My "spacers" (thick washers) showed up today in the mail. Thanks Kris, or Rishie, or whoever got them here.
It looks like they go under the pillow ball to space the body of the shock lower, dropping the adjustment **** with it. I haven't opened the packet to read the instructions yet, though.
It looks like they go under the pillow ball to space the body of the shock lower, dropping the adjustment **** with it. I haven't opened the packet to read the instructions yet, though.
08-08-03, 10:59 PM
#72
Super Snuggles
I finally got around to installing my spacers today and did a little write-up on the process for anyone who is interested.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=212852
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=212852
08-08-03, 11:09 PM
#73
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
thats a great right up Jim....
but crap it to all hell I dont have them...I bought these with less than 100 miles on them and I can't get those spacers sent to me....do you think I could get something from homedepot??
Crap....I need to find that number of the JIC rep....
but crap it to all hell I dont have them...I bought these with less than 100 miles on them and I can't get those spacers sent to me....do you think I could get something from homedepot??
Crap....I need to find that number of the JIC rep....
08-09-03, 01:11 AM
#74
Super Snuggles
Originally posted by 7racer
Crap....I need to find that number of the JIC rep....
Crap....I need to find that number of the JIC rep....
Kris
JIC MAGIC
(562) 803-6122
Give Kris a call and tell him what your situation is. I doubt the spacers would cost you more than a few bucks.