DassRotary2427

are the tokicos or konis height adjustable

John Magnuson

The Koni have three different settings. One that is stock height and two that are a little bit lower.

jimlab

Keep in mind that the 3 height "settings" (spring perch locations) on the Koni yellow shocks aren't easy to change. You have to disassemble the shock/spring package to take the load off the perch, then move a "C" clip from one position to either of the other two possible positions. Basically, it's a royal pain in the ***, so it's best to get it right the first time.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The Tokico's are not height adjustable. As Jim mentioned, it's not that easy of a task to adjust the height on the spring perches. IMO, if you need height adjustability, just get coilovers.

DamonB

The perches on the Konis are not meant to allow for adjusting corner weight, they merely give you 3 choices for ride height. Personally I set my ride height and then leave it.

If you do wish to adjust the ride height on the Koni you remove the shock(s) and then compress the spring. Slip the perch to the setting you want and release the spring. No other disassembly required or actual spring removal required. I guess if you wanted to change your ride height every weekend it could be a problem...

jimlab

Wouldn't that depend on whether or not you had a spring compressor handy? If not, then you do have to disassemble the shock/spring package to release pressure on the perch.

Let's say you set it on the middle setting to be on the safe side, but after putting the shocks/springs on the car you find out that it's sitting too high. That could be a problem too, couldn't it?

jimlab

Exactly, especially since there are some very reasonably priced models available now.

BTW, Koni yellows + Ground Control coilover conversion kit = "teh suck".

DamonB

That's no different than buying lowering springs; you don't know what you have until you put them on. The Koni has three height positions. The tallest is stock, the middle one about a 5/8" drop and the lowest one just over an inch drop. This assumes stock springs of course. Lowering springs could be dropped that much lower if desired.

Spring compressor. $12. Harbor Freight. Free if you think ahead and go to the auto parts store and use theirs.

I bet anybody with any sense could remove the Koni and adjust the spring perch in the same amount of time (or less) as it would take them to put the car on scales and adjust a true coil over. Even if not using scales you'd still have to be on a level floor and constantly measure and bounce the car while adjusting all the collars. Anybody without much sense will of course take much too long no matter what they do (and screw everything up in the process)

You can get some height adjustability (and damping as well) with a Koni at a cost of about $550 a set. You can get true coilover ride height and corner weight adjustability with a coilover that will cost a very minimum double that (or more) and in many cases still have a product with inferior build quality and life compared to a Koni. The Koni has its own limitations, but you can't beat it without spending a lot more money.

Hellspawn

Hey Damon, didn't you put your konis on a lower perch when you bought them and had bad rubbing or bottoming out or something?

I would think lower would be better for center of gravity for auto-x and track, but you seemed to be happier after putting them on the highest perch, because of rubbing, if I remeber correctly?

jimlab

Unless you got a different version of the Koni yellow shocks than I did, the recesses in the shock body were only about 1/4" apart. The range of adjustability is only about 1/2" total, not 1".

DamonB

You know better than that jim. Motion ratio!

The shock is only midway down the arm compared to the wheel so a small change in height at the perch equals a much bigger one at the wheel.

DamonB

Ohhhhhhhh yeah. I have stock springs and I lowered the car all the way for the hell of it. I then ate through the front fender liners at an autox a few days later, and that was with stock tires and wheels! Guys who lower their cars much must run absolutely hellacious spring rates or they never track the car.

I still have the holes in the liners just behind the headlight to remember that day by. I was wearing through the tops as well. Luckily it hadn't got all the way into the wiring harness above the fender yet but I did chew some of the wire insulation off.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

while the motion ratio effects the wheel (spring) rate it does not effect the linear relationship re the lower spring perch and the ride height. the car sits on the spring. since the shock is inside the spring and the perch is around the shock... lower the spring perch one half inch and you lower the car one half inch.

howard coleman

DamonB

That's not true in most cases.


Your statement is only true if the spring/shock assembly happens to mount to the suspension in the same location the hub attaches (many McPherson strut and most leaf spring suspensions for example). The exact same reason the motion ratio makes the wheel rate different from the spring rate is also why a small change at the perch equals a larger on at the wheel.

Here is a pic where the perch adjustment vs wheel movement is 1:1 :



Here is an image that represents most wishbone suspension systems. As you can see in this case when the spring is compressed X amount the wheel itself moves 1.5(X). This is a direct result of the wheel being mounted at the extreme end of the arm and the shock/spring midway along the arm. The motion ratio also accounts for the difference in spring rate and wheel rate.



The suspension arm is mounted to a fixed pivot and swings through an arc. If the wheel mounts to the end of the arm and the spring mounts some where closer to the pivot the wheel will always travel further than the shock/spring for a given amount of deflection. The only time this is not true is in the case of some true strut suspensions, live axles with vertical shocks and when pushrods and bellcranks are used (the entire advantage of bellcranks is in allowing the motion ratio to be quickly and easily changed).

Another example. If the red line is the shock/spring unit than a small change in length here will always result in a larger change at the end of the arm where the wheel is mounted. If it does not then the motion ratio is 1:1. If the motion ratio is not 1:1 then there MUST be a difference between the distances traveled by the wheel and the spring. Motion ratio is merely mechanical advantage.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

you have given an excellent exposition as to wheel rate and spring rate.

the relationship of ride height to spring perch adjustment w a double a-arm coil over has nothing to do w the fact that the wheel is outboard of the shock/spring mounting position w regard to the lateral link. sure, the motion ratio relates to this.

the car, however, sits on the spring. if you raise the lower perch you raise the car an equal amount minus the very slight angle of the spring.

howard coleman

DamonB

****. That's true. Sorry. I'm so used to thinking of everything from the other way around: what happens at the wheel end. If the car is sitting still then raising or lowering the perch must raise or lower the chassis with respect to the ground the same amount.

bolo_fd

iTrader: (2)

good debate guys. now has anyone else tried the lowest perch setting, and did you have any clearance issues like DamonB?

rynberg

I would definitely not run the fronts at a lower perch setting. The rears are fine on the lowest perch setting to make the car more level. I haven't ever bottomed out the rears, but have the fronts, even on the highest perch setting.

bolo_fd

iTrader: (2)

cool thanks

wptrx7

i love when intellectuals get into a debate, there is so much to learn.

what if you are runiing eibach springs with this setup (konis), will you want to lower the konis at all?
what is a happy medium for a street car on eibach/konis (front and rear)?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

25 inches measured at the top of all 4 wheel wells don't forget to readjust the camber when you change ride height.

howard coleman

DamonB

There's no debate when you're flat wrong as I was Howard was right. With respect to chassis ride height adjusting the perch height a given amount will raise or lower the chassis the same amount. It will vay slightly the more the shocks are tilted from true vertical but it will be very close.

jimlab

I knew I was right... I just didn't care enough to argue about it.

wptrx7

it's ok that you were wrong because you still gave out information that i never knew or even thought about. now i feel smarter (even though i had to read this thread six times to figure out all the formulas, theories and calculations). at least it wasn't another will this size fit or can i drop my car to the ground on 20s with no fender mods and how much does it cost if i wanted to do it.

and if i were to get quized on everything that was said, i would probably still flunk, thats why i'm reading this thread again.

fdeeznutz

I have Eibach springs on my car, but the back of the car just doesn't sit as low as I would like. The front seems fine to me. If i get the Koni's and put the back struts at the lowest setting and the fronts at the highest will it level out my car?