FD Stance Coilover feedback
12-30-09, 06:40 PM
#28
Track junkie
Hi Pete and Crispy!
I was in the same boat as you guys and ended up going with a Moton Motorsport solution. Plus, Piper MS is our local vendor and Mitch is, as you know is a huge help! Plus, the support from Lex Carson at Moton is top notch when it come to spring/tender rates. That being said, there isn't any direct support for JRZ in the US.
From what I've read it really isn't that hard to rebuild the damper. I'm sure Crispy could knock it out in an hour
Also, Moton's US HQ is in Georgia.
As I'm sure you're aware Moton dampers and JRZ dampers are virtually the same. They're made by one of the people who started JRZ and use the same parts. There are minor differences. Moton has two lines of dampers, the race version and the club sport version, as does JRZ. The difference between the two lines are the number of adjustments and the construction of the damper. Again, Moton from what I've read has better support, but more importantly is finding a distributor who can help you with an appropriate spring package for your car- Lex and Mitch.
Without a doubt, both shocks would work very well for you as long as the vendor chooses the proper spring rates for you and provides setup & tuning information so you can take full advantage of their capabilities. This year I'm hiring Synergy down at VIR to help with car setup and adjustments.
While the prices of the Stance look good there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on them. What nitrogen pressure, spring/tender rates, sway setup, ride height/rake? Not saying it's a bad product, but I would need a lot more information before I spent that much money on an untested product.
FYIW: TPC in Jessup Maryland and IMA Motorsports in Sterling are our local JRZ distributors. PM me if you want to talk a little more.
I was in the same boat as you guys and ended up going with a Moton Motorsport solution. Plus, Piper MS is our local vendor and Mitch is, as you know is a huge help! Plus, the support from Lex Carson at Moton is top notch when it come to spring/tender rates. That being said, there isn't any direct support for JRZ in the US.
From what I've read it really isn't that hard to rebuild the damper. I'm sure Crispy could knock it out in an hour
Also, Moton's US HQ is in Georgia. As I'm sure you're aware Moton dampers and JRZ dampers are virtually the same. They're made by one of the people who started JRZ and use the same parts. There are minor differences. Moton has two lines of dampers, the race version and the club sport version, as does JRZ. The difference between the two lines are the number of adjustments and the construction of the damper. Again, Moton from what I've read has better support, but more importantly is finding a distributor who can help you with an appropriate spring package for your car- Lex and Mitch.
Without a doubt, both shocks would work very well for you as long as the vendor chooses the proper spring rates for you and provides setup & tuning information so you can take full advantage of their capabilities. This year I'm hiring Synergy down at VIR to help with car setup and adjustments.
While the prices of the Stance look good there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on them. What nitrogen pressure, spring/tender rates, sway setup, ride height/rake? Not saying it's a bad product, but I would need a lot more information before I spent that much money on an untested product.
FYIW: TPC in Jessup Maryland and IMA Motorsports in Sterling are our local JRZ distributors. PM me if you want to talk a little more.
12-30-09, 06:45 PM
#29
Track junkie
One more thought. I personally prefer the more precise adjustment philosophy. If you do go the Moton route, having a starting point is nice for us nerds and the literature from Moton is great. As I'm sure you all know it's easy to chase your tail for multiple testing days trying to find just the "good" setup.
Hope I muddied the waters for you!
Hope I muddied the waters for you!
01-05-10, 11:45 AM
#31
Track junkie
Something else to chew on... This is a LOT of suspension for a car you want to be dual purpose. [I.e. drive to the track]. Properly setup for the track [ride height, huge spring rates and sways, etc...] the car should be 99.9% undriveable on the street. Just an opinion.
What spring rates are you running now?
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...king-behavior/
What spring rates are you running now?
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...king-behavior/
01-06-10, 08:05 AM
#32
Pat,
Good point. Spring rates are obviously one thing, but shock valving seems to play just as big a role.
I've heard anecdotally that one can run really high spring rates with higher end shocks like JRZ, Moton, or Ohlins, and still have a more comfortable ride for the street than with lesser rates on cheap shocks. This is also what interested me in Stance, since they are triple adjustable and remote resovoir.
By adjusting the nitrogen pressure in the externals, one can effectively lower/raise spring rate, but also, from what I've read the ride comfort/handling compromise is between high and low speed compression settings. "High speed" settings control abrupt movements such as running over bumps or rough surfaces, and the "low speed" controls the movement when turning into corners, changes of direction, etc.
Talking to a couple shock engineers (both at JRZ), both indicated that the common mistake is to jack the rebound up and down to try and get ride comfort or handling, and use too little compression, or have the balance between high/low miscalibrated.
My thinking with Stance is/was, at least you have ACCESS to adjusting each of these parameters, and I had some feedback that the adjustments actually do something predictable (from Piper), meaning you're more likely to be able to get to a good setting with a lower cost shock, even if it took you a while and much fiddling to get there.
The JRZs I'm looking at actually aren't triples, they're doubles, but the thinking there is that they should have that compression balance figured out, and of course they are highly tunable/revalvable.
Good point. Spring rates are obviously one thing, but shock valving seems to play just as big a role.
I've heard anecdotally that one can run really high spring rates with higher end shocks like JRZ, Moton, or Ohlins, and still have a more comfortable ride for the street than with lesser rates on cheap shocks. This is also what interested me in Stance, since they are triple adjustable and remote resovoir.
By adjusting the nitrogen pressure in the externals, one can effectively lower/raise spring rate, but also, from what I've read the ride comfort/handling compromise is between high and low speed compression settings. "High speed" settings control abrupt movements such as running over bumps or rough surfaces, and the "low speed" controls the movement when turning into corners, changes of direction, etc.
Talking to a couple shock engineers (both at JRZ), both indicated that the common mistake is to jack the rebound up and down to try and get ride comfort or handling, and use too little compression, or have the balance between high/low miscalibrated.
My thinking with Stance is/was, at least you have ACCESS to adjusting each of these parameters, and I had some feedback that the adjustments actually do something predictable (from Piper), meaning you're more likely to be able to get to a good setting with a lower cost shock, even if it took you a while and much fiddling to get there.
The JRZs I'm looking at actually aren't triples, they're doubles, but the thinking there is that they should have that compression balance figured out, and of course they are highly tunable/revalvable.
01-06-10, 02:42 PM
#33
Pete and Crispy,
Check your Pm's.
I just got final approval from Stance on your sponsorships.
BUT TO SAVE THE MOST MONEY PLEASE ORDER BY THE 15TH.
STANCE PRICES ARE GOING UP $600.00 ON THE GR3'S COME THE 18TH.
THEY HAVE REVISED AND IMPROVED MATERIALS OF SOME OF THE COMPONENTS.
IF YOU ORDER BY 15TH YOU'LL GET THE NEWEST STUFF BUT AT THE OLD PRICE. WINK WINK!!!!!
Rishie
Check your Pm's.
I just got final approval from Stance on your sponsorships.
BUT TO SAVE THE MOST MONEY PLEASE ORDER BY THE 15TH.
STANCE PRICES ARE GOING UP $600.00 ON THE GR3'S COME THE 18TH.
THEY HAVE REVISED AND IMPROVED MATERIALS OF SOME OF THE COMPONENTS.
IF YOU ORDER BY 15TH YOU'LL GET THE NEWEST STUFF BUT AT THE OLD PRICE. WINK WINK!!!!!
Rishie
01-06-10, 05:48 PM
#34
Track junkie
Yes, the Motons run pretty smooth on 495 if you don't hit a huge pothole (750lbs/900lbs setup) They're awesome on curbs, berms, aprons, and bumps, as well as rough tracks like Summit Point if you get all four settings just right. Lower the nitrogen a little for bumpy tracks.
I think the price is right to try them and if Mitch will be track side to help then go for it. Have him set up a base line for rebound and compression, based on your car's weight, power, balance, sprigning etc..
Then you can customize the settings from there for your particular needs.
There is no -0-, just the initial base line, and then the adjustments that are dictated by
each individual and track, i.e. rough, smooth, undulating, etc...
Keep a log book with those initial base line settings, and then note each change you make, so you have a frame of reference and qualify what the car is doing.
Adjusting shocks is as much Art as it is Science. In fact, if you don't have shock potentiometers and full data acquisition, it is 100% Art. You have to be able to feel exactly what the car is doing, then understand what the shock settings do, and then apply that information.
I think the price is right to try them and if Mitch will be track side to help then go for it. Have him set up a base line for rebound and compression, based on your car's weight, power, balance, sprigning etc..
Then you can customize the settings from there for your particular needs.
There is no -0-, just the initial base line, and then the adjustments that are dictated by
each individual and track, i.e. rough, smooth, undulating, etc...
Keep a log book with those initial base line settings, and then note each change you make, so you have a frame of reference and qualify what the car is doing.
Adjusting shocks is as much Art as it is Science. In fact, if you don't have shock potentiometers and full data acquisition, it is 100% Art. You have to be able to feel exactly what the car is doing, then understand what the shock settings do, and then apply that information.
01-07-10, 02:32 PM
#35
Ok guys i can only offer this sponsorship promotion until the 15th of this month. Must be paid in full by the 15th.
SEnding pm's now.
For those who have not received a PM please do PM me so i can respond.
These will still cost over $2000.00 so if you have the funds ready let's make it happen. otherwise please don't bother pm'ing. Stance prices for GR3 go up on the 18th of this month.
Thanks,
Rishie
SEnding pm's now.
For those who have not received a PM please do PM me so i can respond.
These will still cost over $2000.00 so if you have the funds ready let's make it happen. otherwise please don't bother pm'ing. Stance prices for GR3 go up on the 18th of this month.
Thanks,
Rishie
04-26-10, 09:12 PM
#39
08-22-10, 10:39 PM
#43
Installed
Well it only took me 4 months but the dampers are installed and I'm heading to the track next weekend. Now all I have to do is figure out how to dial them in. I doubt I can do it in one weekend but hopefully I can make some progress. Stay tuned for feedback.
FWIW remote reserviors and adjustments are all accessible topside - rears in the hatch area, fronts under the hood.
Regards,
Crispy
FWIW remote reserviors and adjustments are all accessible topside - rears in the hatch area, fronts under the hood.
Regards,
Crispy
08-22-10, 10:54 PM
#44
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
I've got to admit man, your engine bay is damn impressive. Lots o stuff crammed in there, but it all fits and looks great. Have fun at the track, we'll miss ya out in PA at Gordon's Goat Farm next weekend 
08-23-10, 05:49 AM
#46
Corn-to-Noise Converter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Elysian Fields (Texas)
Posts: 1,527
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Well it only took me 4 months but the dampers are installed and I'm heading to the track next weekend. Now all I have to do is figure out how to dial them in. I doubt I can do it in one weekend but hopefully I can make some progress. Stay tuned for feedback.
FWIW remote reserviors and adjustments are all accessible topside - rears in the hatch area, fronts under the hood.
Regards,
Crispy
FWIW remote reserviors and adjustments are all accessible topside - rears in the hatch area, fronts under the hood.
Regards,
Crispy
Could you tell me about the remote canister hose lengths. The canister placement is very similar to a setup I'm considering and I'd like to know how long I'll need the front and rear hoses.
Enjoy VIR, and give my best to Dave!! I paid for both the June and August events, and yet here I'll be lamenting. To borrow from Lyndon Johnson, "The Bitch of a Car" has taken too many track events away.
08-25-10, 11:45 PM
#50
Track junkie
Looks great Chris! Wish I could join you guys this weekend, but I'm doing the three day w/ Potomac Labor day weekend. Looking forward to the reviews. Did you figure out the N2 settings?
FWIW, the canisters apparently do expand & contract a bit. It looks like the ends of the Stance are thicker and reinforced, allowing the thinner center of the cans to move/expand. I'm not sure it's such a great idea to have them clamped in the middle. Maybe do something like this:
FWIW, the canisters apparently do expand & contract a bit. It looks like the ends of the Stance are thicker and reinforced, allowing the thinner center of the cans to move/expand. I'm not sure it's such a great idea to have them clamped in the middle. Maybe do something like this: