Delrin VS. Super Pro Bushings?
08-08-07, 01:01 PM
#26
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If you talking about the"should you get the trailing arms" question. I didn't go with any name brand trailing arms and endlink set. I bought a "no name" brand set from ebay for $200 for all 4. They are okay but you can just press either the poly or delrin in the stock ones and you'll be fine. If I had to do it again thats what I would do because I dont really physically see the big advantage of them, and they weigh about the same too.
08-08-07, 01:16 PM
#27
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I wouldn't base the decision for trailing arms and toe links on whether you get this bushing set or that bushing set. I have SuperPros and I got the arms from Rotary Extreme during a GB, so there ya go. If you have the money to spend, why not? They're adjustable, that's enough reason for me. If you don't have the money, do like 4G63FD says and just get the replacement bushings and you'll be set.
It's not that people are lying about it, they just like the product they've bought. I only got 4 days of driving on my SuperPros before my car went dead, but from those days I love them. If I tracked my car more than driving it on the street, I might have gone with the Delrin. It's just all about what you want to use the car for. The SuperPros are tight enough for me though, I'm happy with them so far.
Originally Posted by 4G63FD
I just wanna know which is which and what is what like my granny used to say. And like I said in another discussion; it seems like everyone in the hot rod world(import or domestic) except me, love to "down play the bad" and "say its okay" after they bought a car or a part for their car. Its like they feel that if the own or sell a product they HAVE to be loyal to it...lol. I'll tell you in a second when something sucks or not. I bought sevaral parts for my previous 11 sec DSM and for this FD and got burned several times. I hold no loyalties to performance part companies or auto makers. For example; you wanna compressor surge your turbo until kingdom come? buy a HKS super seq. BOV. Its by far the worst BOV on the market, how HKS sells it and doesn't get sued is beyond me. I had one and everyone I know who had one(even way more competent people than me) destroyed their turbo from compressor surge. YOU SEE!! Honesty...straight up with no strings. It doesnt mean I hate HKS I actually like some of their products. But I tell it like it is!!!. Now...lets stop the bickering fellas, and any users of Poly, Unobtanium, Delrin, Nylon or whateverthefuck, please chime in and tell me the real deal, because my car is sitting on jackstands waiting.
08-09-07, 11:47 AM
#28
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This was my original question.
"If i get:
-the 18 piece delrin bushings
-the rx7store toelinks http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/toelinks.htm
-oem rear pillow ball bushings set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...oduct_id=3186#
-ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...roduct_id=2980
I would have compensated for all the bushings with without buying anything extra right?"
Basically i decided on the bushing set, and am just wondering what else i need to buy to replace everything the set doesn't cover.
"If i get:
-the 18 piece delrin bushings
-the rx7store toelinks http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/toelinks.htm
-oem rear pillow ball bushings set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...oduct_id=3186#
-ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...roduct_id=2980
I would have compensated for all the bushings with without buying anything extra right?"
Basically i decided on the bushing set, and am just wondering what else i need to buy to replace everything the set doesn't cover.
08-09-07, 01:04 PM
#29
if you are getting these:
...then i don't see how you would be able to use any other toe related products such as these.
-the rx7store toelinks http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/toelinks.htm
-ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...roduct_id=2980
08-09-07, 01:08 PM
#30
similarly, if you are getting the 18 piece bushing set here:
...also getting the OEM bushings/pillowballs would be redundant. Delrin bushings replace the OEM bushings.
Its scary how you seemingly duplicated everything. BTW - Malloy Mazda is the best place for OEM parts.
...also getting the OEM bushings/pillowballs would be redundant. Delrin bushings replace the OEM bushings.
-oem rear pillow ball bushings set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...oduct_id=3186#
08-09-07, 09:23 PM
#33
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This was my original question.
"If i get:
-the 18 piece delrin bushings
-the rx7store toelinks http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/toelinks.htm
-oem rear pillow ball bushings set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...oduct_id=3186#
-ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...roduct_id=2980
I would have compensated for all the bushings with without buying anything extra right?"
Basically i decided on the bushing set, and am just wondering what else i need to buy to replace everything the set doesn't cover.
"If i get:
-the 18 piece delrin bushings
-the rx7store toelinks http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/toelinks.htm
-oem rear pillow ball bushings set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...oduct_id=3186#
-ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...roduct_id=2980
I would have compensated for all the bushings with without buying anything extra right?"
Basically i decided on the bushing set, and am just wondering what else i need to buy to replace everything the set doesn't cover.
Originally Posted by gracer7-rx7
...also getting the OEM bushings/pillowballs would be redundant. Delrin bushings replace the OEM bushings.
Originally Posted by 4G63FD
So wait... if i buy the Super Pro or Delrin Kit I still gotta buy more bushings? Sorry for my ignorance, I dont know much about this car.
08-09-07, 09:30 PM
#34
the purpose of the delrin or super pro poly bushings is to replace the OEM bushings/pillowballs you are referring to.
you guys need to spend more time researching the mods you are making and parts you are buying. read the 3rd gen FAQ thread, check out the archives etc. unless you're loaded and enjoy spending money unnecessarily.
08-09-07, 09:33 PM
#35
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^You have the superpro kit too right? That's what I have, but I looked at the Delrin first, and I don't remember either of the kits having those bushings. Those pillowballs, to my knowledge, are not easily replicated.
EDIT: What I mean to say, is that the pillowballs have more movement than the rest of the bushings have. The other bushings are only providing movement one way, whereas the pillowball bushings provide, what I believe they call, axial movement. Therefore, you can't replace the pillowball bushings with something as simple as the bushings provided in either the Delrin or the SuperPro set. There was talk about replicating the rear lower arm bushings as well but the way they're made, it's not likely that will happen either.
EDIT: What I mean to say, is that the pillowballs have more movement than the rest of the bushings have. The other bushings are only providing movement one way, whereas the pillowball bushings provide, what I believe they call, axial movement. Therefore, you can't replace the pillowball bushings with something as simple as the bushings provided in either the Delrin or the SuperPro set. There was talk about replicating the rear lower arm bushings as well but the way they're made, it's not likely that will happen either.
Last edited by speedjunkie; 08-09-07 at 09:39 PM.
08-09-07, 09:42 PM
#36
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This was my original question.
"If i get:
-the 18 piece delrin bushings
-the rx7store toelinks http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/toelinks.htm
-oem rear pillow ball bushings set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...oduct_id=3186#
-ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...roduct_id=2980
I would have compensated for all the bushings with without buying anything extra right?"
Basically i decided on the bushing set, and am just wondering what else i need to buy to replace everything the set doesn't cover.
"If i get:
-the 18 piece delrin bushings
-the rx7store toelinks http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/toelinks.htm
-oem rear pillow ball bushings set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...oduct_id=3186#
-ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set https://www.rhdjapan.com/home/produc...roduct_id=2980
I would have compensated for all the bushings with without buying anything extra right?"
Basically i decided on the bushing set, and am just wondering what else i need to buy to replace everything the set doesn't cover.
The two long arms, second to the bottom with the three bushings has a bushing you missed. The large bushing in those arms are also of the pillow ball type and aren't included in the kit. They rarely go bad so there's not many posts about them. If you look under the rear of your car you'll see they are located on the lower rear control arm closest to the center of the car. Feel free to PM me any other questions you may have about the Delrin "Full Race" kits.
08-09-07, 09:44 PM
#37
08-09-07, 10:02 PM
#39
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Yeah I guess anything is doable. If it's been done, it can be done again. But you're right, it's really not worth the money involved.
And those rear lower arm bushings are a BITCH to change, they really need to change the design of that somehow. You almost have to destroy the arms to get them out.
And those rear lower arm bushings are a BITCH to change, they really need to change the design of that somehow. You almost have to destroy the arms to get them out.
08-11-07, 01:46 PM
#43
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08-11-07, 02:35 PM
#44
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I think the best thing for you to do is either pm me if you have questions on pricing, splitting up kits, individual bushings, diagrams etc for Super Pro Bushings and or pm TireSmokin7 for the Delrin kits...whichever ever you choose! This thread is getting a bit off topic from the true comparison between the kits
-Nick
Last edited by turb0x2; 08-11-07 at 02:57 PM.
08-18-07, 09:38 PM
#45
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The two long arms, second to the bottom with the three bushings has a bushing you missed. The large bushing in those arms are also of the pillow ball type and aren't included in the kit. They rarely go bad so there's not many posts about them. If you look under the rear of your car you'll see they are located on the lower rear control arm closest to the center of the car. Feel free to PM me any other questions you may have about the Delrin "Full Race" kits.
08-19-07, 02:15 PM
#46
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There is only one kit of Delrin bushings. Whether they are full race or not depends on what you think of these parts...
1. 18 rims with low profile high performance tires
2. Firmer aftermarket coil springs
3. High performance shocks
4. Pillow ball upper shock absorber mounts that remove the factory rubber insulation
5. Aftermarket sway bars
6. Roll cage
7. Engine brace
8. Aftermarket motor mounts
9. Shock tower brace
10. Differential brace
11. Toe links with solid Heim joints
12. Trailing arms with solid Heim joints
For some of us these are parts for our grocery getters.
1. 18 rims with low profile high performance tires
2. Firmer aftermarket coil springs
3. High performance shocks
4. Pillow ball upper shock absorber mounts that remove the factory rubber insulation
5. Aftermarket sway bars
6. Roll cage
7. Engine brace
8. Aftermarket motor mounts
9. Shock tower brace
10. Differential brace
11. Toe links with solid Heim joints
12. Trailing arms with solid Heim joints
For some of us these are parts for our grocery getters.
08-23-07, 01:27 PM
#47
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So basically I was correct that if i get the toe links from rx7store I can cover the missing bushings compared to the super pro kit, and getting the oem pillow ball bushings which aren't in either kit? Then getting the "ATTAIN Pillow Ball Rear Toe Control Link Bushing Set" is optional since they rarely go bad?
08-24-07, 02:24 PM
#48
To end the confusion about kit contents:
Neither SuperPros nor the Delrins include pillowball bushings (6 small, 2 big). Contrary to popular belief, the larger pillow ***** in the lower arms do wear out. The symptoms of a failed pair of these large pillow ***** just happens to be more subtle (less clunky) but that doesn't change the fact that these worn bushings can develop play and affect suspension performance. For best results, all pillow ***** should be inspected and ordered through Mazda as this is the only current source for the FD's pillow ball bushings.
Here are the content differences between the kits:
Delrin - 18 pieces
* front arms - .........yes
* rear upper arms -.yes
* diff mount - ..........yes
* shock mounts ......yes
* trailing arms..........yes
* toe links -............. no
* steering rack.........no
SuperPro 24 piece kit
* front arms - .........yes
* rear upper arms -.yes
* diff mount - ..........yes
* shock mounts ......yes
* trailing arms..........yes
* toe links -............. yes
* steering rack.........yes
Neither SuperPros nor the Delrins include pillowball bushings (6 small, 2 big). Contrary to popular belief, the larger pillow ***** in the lower arms do wear out. The symptoms of a failed pair of these large pillow ***** just happens to be more subtle (less clunky) but that doesn't change the fact that these worn bushings can develop play and affect suspension performance. For best results, all pillow ***** should be inspected and ordered through Mazda as this is the only current source for the FD's pillow ball bushings.
Here are the content differences between the kits:
Delrin - 18 pieces
* front arms - .........yes
* rear upper arms -.yes
* diff mount - ..........yes
* shock mounts ......yes
* trailing arms..........yes
* toe links -............. no
* steering rack.........no
SuperPro 24 piece kit
* front arms - .........yes
* rear upper arms -.yes
* diff mount - ..........yes
* shock mounts ......yes
* trailing arms..........yes
* toe links -............. yes
* steering rack.........yes
10-01-07, 07:19 PM
#49
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Hey fellas, I wanted to go with the Delrin diff bushings and Poly for the rest because I didn't want to buy a diff brace and I heard the Delrins are stiffer and you dont need a diff brace. I bought the Delrin diff bushings from someone who didn't need them, and let me tell you guys something; GOD DAMN!!! Those ******* bushings are hard as hell. You might as well use steel/solid bushings. I cant believe people are actually putting these "things" on their entire suspension(I say "things" and not "bushings" because bushings should have SOME kinda give). I'm scared to put them on just the damn diff...lol. These are DEFINITELY race only in my opinion. No wonder the Delrin group buy's ad features a monster looking dude with his eyes and teeth rattling out...lol. Good luck to you "Delrin bushings on street car users", I cant knock you, but you guys are crazy.
10-01-07, 09:08 PM
#50
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To end any confusions about the Delrin kit...
If you want to know how the ride is with them please just read the unedited user quotes.
Same person 100 miles later posted this on TC…
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthr...829#post345829
If you want to know how the ride is with them please just read the unedited user quotes.
Testimonies From Actual Delrin Lube Groove Bushing Users
OK, I purchased a set of these bushings from someone that bought them through the GB. I was debating between them and the poly ones from Super-Pro because I was weiry that they wouldn't be super harsh like the reviews I've heard on the Jim-Lab ones. Well, after procrastinating for months after buying them, I finally ripped apart the suspension and had them installed by a machine shop. The shop boss was impressed by their quality and was shocked how little I paid for them. Even the machinist that pressed them in said he was suprised by how well they were made and said they fit with perfect tolerance to the stock arms. I installed them with my new Advanced Design(ground control) coilovers. Even with the stiffer springs and bushings, the car isn't that harsh even on our horrible bay area roads. So far, I have to say they're great. These things should be manditory on an FD with 60k+ miles. Really tightened everything up. Great Job!
Here's some quick pics I took using my cell.
Here's some quick pics I took using my cell.
Originally Posted by Marek
PM TireSmokin7 he might have a few left. I strongly reccomend his bushing package. In comment specificly to the diff bushings it cured my wheel hop problems.
I'm surprised these bushings aren't on more running cars, maybe people are too busy having fun.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
I just finished installing all bushings, but at the same time I replaced the stock springs with an Eibach Pro kit. Also replaced the 6 pillow ball joints. The car has about 99k miles.
I was able to get by with a 12 ton harbor freight shop press, and various sockets (including some 4X4 hub sockets) that I had sitting around the garage. It was tricky getting some of the suspension peices in the right configuration with the sockets, but I was able to press out/in every peice.
The car goes on the rack tomorrow, but I did take the car for a drive. Wow, even with the car out of alignment, the car is so much tighter. Before the car was downright dangerous (in a bad way). Passing cars on a two way road (where the road is high in the middle) the car felt barely in control, and the rear end was out of control around turns at seemingly low speeds with light throttle. After installing the delrin bushings and new pillow ball joints, the car feels like a go cart. The steering wheel doesn't pull all over the place when driving through ruts at traffic lights. The rear end is much more composed around turns.
At normal cruising I barely notice much difference at all. Under medium to heavy throttle and higher rpms seems to transmit more noise into the cabin, but its not objectionalble (to my taste at least). It almost seems as if the exhaust is a little louder. I hear a slight bit more gear noise in first and reverse gears but once in third gear I couldnt notice any more noise.
As for ride quality, it did not seem any rougher than before the bushings. Maybe it was my imagination but it seemed like the suspension moves more freely. Much to my surprise, the effect on ride quality (in my opinion) was minimal to not even noticable.
Overall, I'm impressed. Almost no effect on harshness or ride quality, a little more sound from the exhaust and rear diff (which I don't mind), and the car is much tighter and easier to control.
Now I can't wait to really work this car once I get the alignment tomorrow.
Thanks again Steven for this excellent group buy.
As far as handling is concerned there is a noticable difference in the curves. The car feels SOLID. I just had a base alignment done for now so the car wasn't so twitchy. I plan to get it corner weighted in the next month or so. Turned out the caster on one of the front corners was off by 5 degrees which shows how shot my old bushings were. Everything is so tight now. No longer hit my head on the roof over the expansion joints, no clunking, incredible in the corners.
After driving for a couple of days I noticed the car is a bit noisier, esp at low speed you can hear the diff. So if you are sensitive to noise you may want to skip the diff busings and stick with rubber. Once up to speed it is drowned out by tire noise and such tho.
If someone wants a ride lemme know and we can hook up.
After driving for a couple of days I noticed the car is a bit noisier, esp at low speed you can hear the diff. So if you are sensitive to noise you may want to skip the diff busings and stick with rubber. Once up to speed it is drowned out by tire noise and such tho.
If someone wants a ride lemme know and we can hook up.
ddkkww888,
The ride is not bad. If you check back a couple of pages I left some comments. It is a little noisier overall, but nothing to complain about. Unfortunately I have never ridden in a stock FD so I can't compare. I bought mine with tien coilovers. Since I had 130K on the stock bushing/pillowballs the ride actually is less harsh after the bushings.
I see you are in San Mateo, maybe some time we can hook up and I can take you for a ride. I live out in San Bruno, but work in Foster City.
I am out of town this week, but PM me if you are interested.
The ride is not bad. If you check back a couple of pages I left some comments. It is a little noisier overall, but nothing to complain about. Unfortunately I have never ridden in a stock FD so I can't compare. I bought mine with tien coilovers. Since I had 130K on the stock bushing/pillowballs the ride actually is less harsh after the bushings.
I see you are in San Mateo, maybe some time we can hook up and I can take you for a ride. I live out in San Bruno, but work in Foster City.
I am out of town this week, but PM me if you are interested.
excellent product. i swapped them in together with all other pillowball and lets just say its smooth and responsive. i'm on stock bilsteins and its not as noisy as anticipated. my exhauset is too loud to actually notice reported drivetrain noises so its all good.
tiresmokin7- is an excellent seller. shipped items out to Malaysia at no extra cost and they arrived much earlier than expected. Thanks matey!!
tiresmokin7- is an excellent seller. shipped items out to Malaysia at no extra cost and they arrived much earlier than expected. Thanks matey!!
the turns feel really good but with only the fronts installed the car feels squirly in back compared to the front. i'm installing the rears in december, as i am in college and have no access to tools or anywhere to do the work. i can let everyone know if they want to wait that long...
Originally Posted by BlackR1
I installed the front ones already and have driven on the front ones for approx. 100 miles. the car ride isn't to harsh at all. i have all original equipment suspension wise. the car did have 140k miles on it. the driving difference in the front is incredible. the front of the car handles corners no problems. now all i have to do is take care of the back ones...