plain and simple.

if you have money then go buy real wheels.

if you dont then buy counterfeit wheels.

if you care about safety and durability buy real wheels

if you care about looks and have no money go buy fake wheels

 

Theres gonna be outliers in every brand. Could be a number of different reasons why the wheel failed..

 

I think the thing that is being overlooked in this discussion is that the high end companies may have some ownership or joint ventures or shared manufacturing facilities with the low end companies.

The high end companies have actively made the decision to stay out of the low price market, wanting to keep their brand recognition of high quality/exclusivity in order to compete in the high margin markets.

There is money to be made at the low end of the scale, but selling through a subsidiary or partnering with a low end company can allow them access to the market without changing their high end brand recognition needed to compete in the high end/high margin market.

This happens in many industries, so i wouldn't be surprised at all if its happening within the aftermarket wheel industry.

I voted yes for fake wheels, everyone is free to purchase whatever floats their boat, and the expensive companies are probably making money on the knock-offs anyways. But personally, I like good value (love my enkei RPO-3's) over cheapies and high end rims.

 

Wouldn't that be something, if RAYS actually owned the Varrstoen factory and was making most of the profit from them selling replica TE37s?

 

I wonder if the wheels are over-engineered or if the government standard is just requiring this level of quality? You might be right because Japan doesn't have any government protectionism in the wheels market. There are zero tariffs on wheels except for the mandatory 5% consumption tax on all imports. If you go to a wheel store in Japan they are just like wheel stores in America full of Taiwanese knock-offs.

On the domestic side of the market the customer is very different however. The prices of tires are 2-3x what you would pay in America, even for the same exact tire. When you pay this much for tires, it doesn't make as much sense to go cheap on wheels that will almost always last longer than the tires. This inflation of tire prices again isn't due to government protectionism because there are no tariffs. But for tires, there is private protectionism from the companies. If you try to sell below the price of your competitors they will simply cut you off. This is common for all auto parts in Japan. It's a complex and very strong system. You have probably had a glimpse of this system through the two best examples foreigners know. 1) The "gentleman's agreement" that existed for a long time limiting all Japanese cars to 255 ps. 2) Some of the best Japanese products are only available within Japan and are not exported = "mad JDM tyte yo".

For the export market Japanese companies are losing the world-wide dominance they used to have and the economy has been on a slow decline since 1974. Every year since 2005 the population of Japan has been shrinking.



By the year 2050 the population pyramid has flipped. Although the working aged population has only decreased 12.1%, there is very little future there are so few young people. The population will take an exponential nose dive after this point if nothing changes in the next 39 years. And when I say changes, every woman in Japan would have to give birth to 8 babies today to reverse this problem.

By the year 2050 the projections already estimate that Japans population will fall under 100 million and every time they update the research, this shrinking population has accelerated. The populations of China, India and the United States will continue to grow however.

If you look at page 6 of the Japan Center for Economic Research long term report:

India's GDP will grow from 3.4 trillian dollars to 19.1 trillion.
China will grow from 7.7 to 33.4
America will grow from 11.1 to to 34.
And little Japan cannot grow hardly at all! Only an increase from 3.5 to 5.0

I know this is a lot of information but these are thing challenges facing Japan. When Japanese companies make business decisions they have to keep in mind that they are losing long term. They already can't compete in manufacturing, but there will come a point when they can't compete in technology either because they simply don't have the money for R&D. Even now Japanese companies don't have the kinds of budgets they used to for projects like the RX7.

So it's no surprise that Japanese companies focus strongly on a brand image of quality. That really is the only thing they will have to offer in the future when it comes to products. You can see this focus on quality in the video from Weds.

"This is why I suggested a "cheap" line. I'd bet all those Rota owners would love to have a wheel with Work stamped on it instead of Rota for the same price, even if it was the same quality as Rota."

That would be suicide for Weds. Quality is all they have for their future. China (Taiwan) is known for it's dirty manufacturing and even if there weren't strict Japanese government tests mandating a certain level of quality, the manufacturing costs would still be much higher in Japan than they would be in China. Weds couldn't compete with China directly for a cheap wheel.

 

Could be many things. Good race teams change out their wheels after a certain amount of miles and buy new ones due to wheel fatigue. If used for racing, even good wheels will get tired and give out after a while. The difference between a good and bad wheel would be the amount of time it takes for that as well as weight.

 

Anyone familiar with League brand wheels. They have the Japanese D.O.T. markings and a weight capacity. Are these knock-offs? or just inexpensive? They were on my car when I bought it in 03, I replaced them and they have been in the basement since. If they are "Bad" I will pitch them, can anyone advise... Tks.

 

I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I did want to make a point:

Businesses need to grow/change with the times...

While I agree that companies like Weds have been focusing on "quality" for their name, maybe that is not the right business model given the market today (not just for Weds). Take a look at Blockbuster as they are great example of a company which didn't change with the times and got steamrolled by Netflix. You would have thought Blockbuster of all companies in that area, would have seen and reacted to the technology trends, but yet they didn't. Sometimes businesses need to do "what's needed to survive". Sticking by ideals may not always make money.

 

I didn't feel like dropping roughly $800 per wheel for TE37s when the knocks are around $800 for all four.

I love my Varrstoens and knowing at least Japan rates them road worthy gives me some peace of mind.

Not all knock offs are junk.

 

That, or focus on the customer base that is willing and needs to buy your products because it benefits them.

 

More often than not, Original Equipment (OE) Factory wheels, not OEM, are designed with daily abuse (e.g., pot-holes, curbing, etc.) and LONGEVITY, resistance to corrosion, etc. in the design criteria from the car manufacture (they don't want wheels failing on their hard-earned customers).

OEM wheels, however, are most often NOT made to this higher car manufacturer criteria.

It's a dirty little secret in the wheel industry.

Take for example, the same OE Mercedes wheel made by OZ or Ronal for Mercedes-Benz, and the OEM version (same look) at almost half the cost. The OEM version is NOT forged, not made from the same material, nor does it have the same level of corrosion protection as the Factory OE wheel.

What's at play here is a marketing heuristic.

In short, OEM does NOT equal OE.

Just another data-point.

:-) neil

 

However, that "willing" customer base may not be enough to sustain a business which is the problem at hand for most companies.

 

Interesting point of view. What specifically are you suggesting that Weds do then? Any data to back up your point or is this pure opinion?

We already know they can't compete with China in manufacturing. China is willing to pollute the environment and is well known for human rights abuses so you can be certain that the factories are dirtier and less safe. If you've ever worked in a wheel factory before you know how dangerous they are. Full of lathes spinning and if something breaks that wheel comes flying off with enough force to kill you. I wonder if they even use doors with safeties in China on the lathe machines?
Also these factories are hot because they pour molten aluminum here, so everyone wants a cold drink. But if you drop a can of soda into an aluminum vat it sinks to the bottom and then explodes spraying molten aluminum on workers. It happens occasionally even in America. The factory rule is supposed to be open containers only, but when you get that many hot sweaty workers the rule gets broken occasionally. But in China it's better to have a dangerous job than live in poverty and have your family be at risk from that so it's a no brainer, you take a dangerous job to put food on the table. Japanese workers aren't willing to do that by any means.
Also Japan had been working under the "employee for life" program so the pensioner to worker ratio is too high, the companies can't make a profit paying out all these pensions. The statistic, last I heard, was that Japan would need to hire 535 million foreign workers today to even out the worker the pensioner ratio.

So all in all, for the cheap wheel market, China will win.

I wish Japan's economy could grow, but it can't. Japan reached a peak that should've been impossible, but they're in a nose dive now that threatens to shrink the population back to what it was in the early 1900's by the end of this century. 10 million maybe. It's really depressing but by all economic estimations there is no way to come out of this nose dive. People think America has it bad, but America's GDP will triple in the next 40 years and the population will still grow. In Japan all we have to look forward too is the crushing weight of having more than %50 elderly population, and they just so happen to live the longest in the world. Draining companies incomes through pension payments but not really doing anything but paying to stay alive in one of the most expensive countries in the world. Compared to China with 10x the population and probably 20x the young people to provide a strong back for the work force, Japan doesn't stand a snow ball's chance. All they can do is build insanely high quality products that nobody else can match and charge equally high prices for them to stay afloat. But even that is failing because the experienced workers are retiring and the young don't have any interest in these jobs because the lifetime employee programs are finished, there's no promise of a government retirement, just white collar jobs for blue collar pay.

 

Pure opinion. I'm not suggesting Weds or any of those companies do anything. I am suggesting that the price of their products "may" not fit the market of today. However, there may be nothing they can do on their prices (then again, maybe there is). Only the individual companies know for sure...

The simple truth is that cheap wheels are selling and selling well, so there is clearly a market for them. Whether some of the Japanese or other "main" wheel companies can utilize that market is something only they know (if they even care to venture into that territory). Some of them don't need to as they are doing well with their current lines... Others may need to look into alternatives.

The other point is that several car makers have ventured into a "cheaper" lines. Audi, BMW and Mercedes in the past 10 years have created lines which were more "affordable" than what they've had offered in the past. Those lines have been very successful and in some cases can lead to customer loyalty in moving to the next level (when becoming an option). I know Audi gives incentives when a previous owner purchases a new Audi vehicle of a higher class than what is being replaced. Granted, its not that wheels are "traded in" on newer versions but there are things which can be learned from other business markets and how they deal with similar situations.

 

I wouldn't say so. A wheel needs to be strong for street driving conditions to handle things like potholes and curbs. That's why street tires have substantial side-impact sidewall strength compared to road racing wheels, which are much lighter without it.