xenon

I come from the 350Z world and I am surprised to see that the rx-7 has less brake options than the Z when you consider that the aftermarket for the rx-7 is more mature.

Anyways I really wish there was a brake company that could design a front and rear BBK while keeping the parking brake functional.

With money being no object, witch BBK would you say is better and why?

I am leaning towards the AP Racing BBK and 99 Spec rears with Mazda's 929 master cylinder.

Does this sound like a good street/track setup? The rear parking brake is important to me.

Thanks

maxcooper

That sounds like a good choice to me. It sounds like you have done your homework.

Here's my brain dump on BBKs for the RX-7 (FD) -- this isn't a comprehensive overview, but rather just my experiences and some info about what is out there:

For the rears, the 99 spec RS/RZ brakes with stock (99) calipers are presently your only option for bigger brakes with a functional parking brake. However, I understand that rotaryextreme.com is thinking about coming out with a spot caliper kit (small mechanical caliper that you run for the parking brake, in addition to your hydraulic calipers). You might want to check with them first.

I have a rear setup with no parking brake that uses 99 RS/RZ rotors:
http://maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/brakes/rear/index.html

I like the AP fronts, and that's what I have. I think they are lighter than some of the other ones (less unsprung weight -- they are actually a couple of pounds lighter than stock per side!). I believe the AP kit is also pretty easy to deal with for wheel clearance (avoiding wheel spoke contact). Pads are easy to find, but I would expect that with any of the BBK choices. They are really street calipers (rather than race), but I think that is common in the BBK industry and is probably the best choice for most buyers. Essex Parts can replace the aluminum pistons with SS pistons and/or install race seals if you decide to go really hardcore with the AP kit.

That said, there are a lot of good front kits out there. I haven't followed the threads much, but the StopTech kit seemed like a great deal for the high quality, and according to their marketing it won't throw off the balance as much as some of the other kits with huge pistons in front. I can tell you from experience that the AP 4-pot fronts with 93 stock rear brakes was WAY front-biased (though some of that could have been the pads I was using). Overly front-biased brakes feel weird (discomforting) -- the back end feels much more stable/planted under braking when the balance is right. Brembo is very high quality, but they generally aren't cheap. I also hear about some Japanese market kits from time to time, but I would be concerned about servicability and pad avilability if they use strange calipers (do they?), and they generally cost a lot, too. Wilwood doesn't have a magical reputation like some of the other companies, but they work just fine and you don't have to pay a magic price.

The complete 99 Mazda setup is also a great (GREAT!) deal and has OEM-engineered balance and piston sizes (works fine with stock master cylinder). The Mazda front calipers are pretty nice, too, though not as fancy as some of the aftermarket ones of course.

You can also get 2-piece rotors in the 99 RS/RZ sizes from Precision Brakes Co. for them. We had a group buy a while back. I don't think Precision has any in stock, but they know the dimensionds and could do another production run (won't be as cheap as the group buy price, of course). You may also be able to find someone selling them in the classifieds section on here. Post a WTB ad if you don't see any for sale -- I bet someone has a set sitting around that could use some money.

The 929 master is a pretty easy to install if you get something that needs more fluid volume. It improved the feel of my brakes tremendously (pedal is rock f-ing hard, man! I love it ).

-Max

xenon

WOW.... Thanks for the write-up Max!

So I am going to assume that the Stopetech is a mild BBK since it was designed to be balanced with the stock rears brakes and stock master cylinder.

The AP Racing BBK looks like a good choice for the price.

Brembo's are the most expensive but how do they compare performance wise? I really could care less about price within reason. I am looking for the best BBK for the rx-7 since it will be driven hard with lots of track time.

TracyRX7

The reason you see so few brake kits for the FD is the stock brakes pretty much get the job done unless you are track racing. With EBC Redstuff (0.46u CF, very high) pads on stock size rotors on 245/40/R17 A-032R Soft tires I could still lockup and have the ABS kick in on a 60-0 braking run. I only autocross and street drive so brake fade or overfheating isn't really too much of an issue for me.

If you are going to run considerably over stock size race rubber you'll need bigger brakes to engage the ABS (the '99 spec I hear do fine on 275/40/R17 front/back). For cooling/fade brake ducting (if you're allowed to do ducting in whatever class you're going to run in) will probably help more than a BBK.

The other thing to consider is the consumable replacement cost, it is a lot less expensive to eat through even 2x as many stock rotors as your BBK would.

I may upgrade to the '99 spec at some point but the stock size I outbrake pretty much everything in my class. I don't think I could deal with no parking brake either. Good luck.

macdaddy

I'm not sure what you mean by the StopTech being "mild". Since the (functional) reason to upgrade is to handle more heat, and all these kits have large (13" or so) rotors, typically of the 2-piece floating variety, they are fairly similar in that regard. Any of the calipers (including the stockers) provide more than enough clamping force.

The standard StopTech BBK for the FD has the pistons sized to work with the stock master cylinder and rear brakes. You can also get the StopTech sized to work with the rear RZ brakes. Their systems are engineered so you don't have to have variable proportioning valves. That doesn't make them "mild", just specifically sized for the FD.

FWIW, I have the standard StopTechs on the front of my FD (standard brakes on the rear). I also have brake ducting from the chin spoiler to N-tech backing plates. I've only had it on track once since then, with Carbotech XP10 pads and Kumho MX tires (not R-compound). This was at Carolina Motorsports Park in SC - notorious for being tough on brakes - and I was very happy with the StopTechs. I did very slightly warp my rear rotors - since then I've removed the dust shield from the rears, and will plan to drive around a little more after each session to cool down better. If it happens again, I'll have to consider the rear RZ's - then I'll wish I'd gotten the other StopTechs. I race a Spec Miata, and instruct for several marque clubs, so I drive the car pretty close to the limit.

I think the StopTechs are an excellent value; from a performance aspect it's hard to go wrong with any of the 3 you mentioned.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Not much I can add here... other than I have the Stop Techs, and so far I think it's an excellent kit. Short of an AP kit, there's probable nothing better... and considering that I picked up the ST for about $1,650, and AP's would be at best $2,300, I think that's a great deal. The only real advantage with AP may be a slight weight difference. Certainly pad availability with an AP 5200 caliper is excellent, but the ST's use a common Porsche shape, so It's probably a wash.

As far as stock, Mandeville, or even '99 RZ brakes, the biggest issue I see is pad availability. Performance Friction (the gold standard in track pads) isn't even making anything in either FD shape anymore (both 93-95, and '99 use the same shape)... never mind the FD front pads are awfully small... probably half the size of a good upgrade shape.

If Chuck ever comes out with a spot caliper solution, i'd love a set of matching ST-20 rear calipers to go w/ my fronts!


MACDADDY:
Could you share some pics/info on how you ducted the ST's with Nicks backing plates... particularly hose routing, front inlet ducts, etc....?

rallimike

iTrader: (1)

Why are Brembos so much more expensive? Do you get what you pay for, and what is that, exactly?

rynberg

Because they can be. They enjoy a similar situation as Bose -- people who don't know any better think they are the best and they price their product accordingly. The Brembo brake kit is very high quality but it isn't any better than the AP or Stoptech kits and it isn't balanced for the FD either.

The best value in aftermarket brakes is probably the Stoptech fronts and 99 RZ rears, followed by the all 99 RZ setup. The AP kit is a very high quality and the calipers allow for more wheel fitments than the Stoptech kit, but it costs 25% more too.

Xenon: You don't need aftermarket brakes unless you are regularly tracking your FD and you don't like swapping out race pads at the track. The 350Z market is much bigger than the FD because they've already sold probably six times more 350Zs already than the entire production run of FDs.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

You'll need race pads at the track even with a BBK.. though you'll probably be able to get away with a less aggressive compound, and go through fewer rotors. I ran my ST's first time out on the street pads they came with (on street tires), and they simply weren't up to the task... and that would be true of anything.

speedx7

Well said, couldn't of said it better myself

maxcooper

Sounds like some good feedback on the StopTech kit here. I agree that it isn't "mild" -- just designed with thoughtful consideration of the likely configurations in which it will be used. The price and availability of support (since they designed the kit, used their own parts, are involved in the enthusiast community, and are located in the U.S.) also make it a very attractive solution.

It's true that you have less pad choices with the Mazda calipers, and that is an important consideration. However, there are still a lot of choices for pads with the Mazda caliper, even if you have more choices with another caliper. Also, there are some advantages of running the same pads front and rear (consistent behavior as they warm up), so you may wish to limit your choices to pads that are available for the Mazda rear calipers anyway, in which case you could probably get the same pads for the Mazda front calipers as well. If pads A, B, and C fit your AP front calipers, pads B, C, and D fit your Mazda rear calipers, and pads B, C, and D fit the Mazda front calipers, you'd be able to choose B or C with an AP/Mazda setup, where you could pick B, C, or D with the Mazda/Mazda setup. Of course, you don't have to use the same compound front and rear, and in reality there are many choices for whichever caliper combination you choose.

Pad size and hence life is another issue to consider, since pads for the aftermarket calipers are generally about the same price but should last longer than pads for Mazda calipers.

Rotor life was one of the things that prompted my brake upgrade. The stock system works very well up to a certain point, but rotor life is short near the limit (even if the rotors are comparatively cheap). Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to test the durabililty of my BBK rotors much yet (little time or energy for track events lately, plus my car has been down for a while), but I expect that the rotors will hold up better than the stock ones. The performance (consistency, pedal feel) starts to become an issue with the stock brakes near the limit, too. There's enough stuff to deal with on track days -- I want my brakes to work perfectly all day with a minimum of between-session fiddling.

I fully expect to need track pads even with the big brakes, and I have separate street pads and track pads for that reason. Now if I can just get my car running and get back to the track to try them out, I'd be happy.

-Max

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

To keep the E-brake, while still upgrading the size of the rear rotor, here is a Mazdaspeed option:

http://www.shaneracing.com/sr93susp.html

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

That sounds like just the '99 rear brake setup.... I don't know about "Mazdaspeed"... but the nameless front kit at the top of the page is obviously a badgeless Stop Tech kit.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Anything and everything you've ever wanted to know about brakes. All of the guru's chimed in as well. I've had this thread bookmarked since it was only 3 pages old. . . .years and years ago. Most informative and best thread ever. Enjoy.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=stoptech

adax

iTrader: (2)

Xenon,

That's the setup I'm currently installing. Talk to Nick at N-tech about some ducts for the APs, he is making another run of them for me and maybe you won't have to wait as long to receive them.

Alan

Halu

if money is not the problem, maybe u should consider import bbk from japan.
I know "Biot",the japanese company, has bbk front and rear for fd.
call chuck, he can get it for u.

stangkilr

I have a Rotora BBK and i love it...haven't heard them mentioned in this thread so far...

sonnguyenrx7

i used to have a blue fd with ap brake kit in the front and biot kits in the rear and it was great set up for me.i never had a change to take the car to the track but it was stop good on the street.i had to4r in my fd.i bought the biot brake kit from rotaryextreme.come(chuck)
sonny

jimlab

It better be. That's what I've got.

RE: Chuck's rear calipers...
I wouldn't worry about putting an umpti-piston caliper in the back of the car, personally. The '99 spec rears are just fine to balance a large (13.0+") front kit, especially considering that the rear brakes only do about 15% of the stopping chores. Adding the complexity, expense, and unsprung weight of a single piston caliper just to serve as an extra parking brake isn't worth it if you ask me.

RecKleSs

Have you looked into Endless http://www.endlessusa.com/ ? Endless has a great reputation and is involved in professional racing. For example, the JGTC GT300 & GT 500 class. There is an FD that is sponsored by Endless and he used their slotted rear rotors with the upgraded calipers from a J-Spec FD. For more info about this FD http://www.importtuner.com/features/...rx7/index.html

rynberg

In case you hadn't noticed, AP, Stoptech, and Brembo have just a little involvement in professional racing too...

The problem with the Endless products is that they cost twice as much as similar quality products from Stoptech or even AP. I really can't comprehend buying any of their brake products vs those from Stoptech, AP, or even Brembo.

wptrx7

so if your not going racing, no auto-x or drag racing, but want to upgrade your brakes (cost effective solution is): 99 spec brakes all around or stock brakes with better pads and new lines?

luigi

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

if you're not racing, autocrossing, or tracking, then no upgrade is necessary... and in many cases, ewven if you do track/autocross, braided lines, appropriate pads, and maintainence are all you need.

Once you do those, and go to the track, and start wasting rotors regularly, then think about upgrading.

jimlab

Unless you buy 19s for looks and need a bigger brake to fill out the center of the wheel so the proportions are correct...

DamonB

I think JC Whitney makes giant fake brake discs you bolt behind your wheels to create that effect. Shall I pick you up a set?