joe13

Hi All,

Newbie here, so please bear with me. I'm looking to removing the entire ABS unit from my 92 FD.

I really need to know, what are the pro's and con's to doing this; what needs to be removed, etc, basically everything and anything u guys can think of. Is this something that I can do by myself? (i AM a mechanically challenged doofus). Is there any website i can refer to on this?

Please help me out here.

Much much thanks in advance.

joe13

guys? anybody? pls help!! any advice would be greatly appreciated... thanks!!

rynberg

Why? Is this a track only car or something? I would never, ever remove the ABS on a street-driven car, there is no point.

Black Magic

iTrader: (2)

Cause your definition of a street car is a grocery getter (see honda), not a REAL street car that runs nines on the street, doesnt get driven in the rain, snow, or cold shitty days, or from september to may for that matter.

I as well am going to remove my ABS from my FD. I will do a step by step when it do it. There is a thread on "HOW-TO remove ABS from your FD" BUT its from japan and of course all the pictures are backwards becuase the damn car is RHD. 2 weeks i should have a step by step up.

Little hint. Wilwood proportioning valve

iluvmy3rdgen

Unless you wanted to notify the insurance company so your rates go up a lot. If it's a track only car then you can either a line from the master cylinder to a splitter with 4 outputs then the two rear lines to a proportioning valve or 3 lines and have the rear brakes share a line. There is no real point on the street.

rynberg

RIGHT....a REAL street car...

BTW, here's a little hint -- good luck properly balancing that proportioning valve. I mean you're going to need it perfectly balanced for that REAL street car...

Black Magic

iTrader: (2)

Thats my point, i dont give a **** really....
So long the fronts see more % of braking than the rears and my rears dont lock up under hard braking you foolish tool...

rynberg

Then why bother removing it and reducing braking performance, you foolish tool?

Black Magic

iTrader: (2)

Less weight, less clutter.

Ps under your user name it says your a fool. Last i checked the user can change his/her saying underneath the user name. That makes you a self proclaimed fool!
lol....

joe13

Hi,

Thanks so much for your help... may i know where is this "how-to" thread... is it within this forum too? Apologies here, am new to this forum too, so havent got the chance to fully explore the site.

Yes, less clutter & less weight... I'm meaning to build the FD as a part-time track car. I dont use it on the street very often, maybe once every week or two.

Again, thanks all for the feedback, i greatly appreciate them. Any more input on this? Please take some time to help me out here.

Thanks again.

Joe

DamonB

Well the guys have given their opinion and I completely agree with them: removing the ABS on a street driven car is not smart.

Pesonally I find it a completely dumb idea that having less weight and less clutter is a good thing when you do it at the expense of stopping the car safely. I guarantee you that since you don't already know what's involved and how to make the brakes work properly with the abs removed you're going to end up with a poorer braking system.

I already know that's not what you want to hear so why don't you just go remove your abs and quit being mad at people who disagree with you?

DamonB

Button at top right corner of the page "search".

lane_change

iTrader: (20)

I removed my ABS from one of my FD's a while ago...I got the how to on a different RX7 enthusiasts website, but it was very simple. I used the Willwood proportioning valve as well.....to adjust it, you simply turn the ****. Accelerate, lock the tires up and have someone not in the car tell you the lockup pattern front to back....once you have it where you want it, leave it alone. Simple....took three stops to set mine. Now it may not be perfect like some road race car, but it worked good for me...and not having all the clutter was worth the work. I had no PS, AC, ABS, AST, etc...on that single turbo FD. It was beautiful how empty the engine bay was.

Now I own another FD that also has no AC, PS, ABS, AST, etc....single turbo....but this one I did not do myself. It is done differently than mine was, but works fine as well.

rynberg

Yeah, it is somewhat balanced in a straightline....now try it on some curves or while trying to dodge something in an emergency action. Or if you are braking on a bumpy or uneven surface? For a little bit of reduced clutter, you have lengthened stopping distances by several feet and reduced directional stability right when you need it most -- trying to avoid hitting something.

How is removing the ABS clearing up the engine bay anyway, it resides neatly tucked away back in the corner?

BTW, as far as stopping distances go -- the current gen Viper stops from 60-0 in about 100 feet. The previous gen took about 120 feet. The only difference is 10mm wider tires and the ADDITION of ABS.

speedx7

good luck in the removal, keep us updated

macdaddy

Many racing series prohibit ABS, so as to reduce cost/complexity and increase the difference that driving skill makes. However, to my knowledge, in all racing series where ABS is allowed, the teams use ABS. This implies to me that the pro drivers recognize that good, modern ABS systems are better than they are - and consider ABS a performance advantage. Just another perspective!

joe13

Hi Guys, a big thank you to all of you for your input... much appreciated.

lane_change... u mentioned that you removed the ABS system from ur first FD by yourself... and that it was not too difficult. If its not too much of a hassle, could you list down what parts were removed and what new thingys were installed? And the plumbing, you fabricated them yourself? Thanks to you in advance.

Btw, are there any websites i can refer to on this?

Thanks again people. Best Regards!!

Sepennkai

ABS does not reduce stopping distance. It makes it easier for the driver to brake at the limit. The Viper's stop distance improved because of softer tires.

ABS stops you faster= .

rynberg

Wow, you're ignorant.

Start here: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake1.htm

Sepennkai

Just to give you the benifit of the doubt, I read the entire link you posted. Evidently, I'm really ignorant, because I found NO PROOF at all that ABS stops the car sooner. Sure it helps you stop safer if you don't know your car, but that isn't the same as reducing stopping distances.

Is this what you were trying to tell me? That doesn't prove your point in the least bit.

ABS only prevents lock-up, the same thing that the driver can do by knowing his car well. If the driver is an idiot, then sure, ABS will take over and perform functions that a competent driver can handle. My FD has no ABS and I have never gotten into a scary situation on the street. Keep you're ABS if you want, let it cover your mistakes. Whatever.

rynberg

No human being can keep the wheels on the edge of locking-up as well as an ABS system can, not even Schumacher. An ABS system pulses several times a second, which is much faster than a human being can do it.

Not only that, but you'll never have all four wheels locking up at the same time, even if the braking system is perfectly setup. One or two wheels will always lock up faster than the other ones, due to weight transfer, slightly different traction conditions, etc. With 3 or 4-channel ABS, this doesn't matter, as the system will work to prevent that individual wheel from locking-up WHILE KEEPING THE OTHER WHEELS AT HIGHER BRAKING PRESSURE. This is impossible to do without an ABS system.

You're either a troll or you're ignorant/deluded. Given your comments regarding the so-called "softer tires" making the current gen Viper stop 20 feet quicker from 60 mph, I'd vote for the latter one.

Sepennkai

"Vote" for which ever one you want. I have been racing since '88. I think that I'll trust my experience over some random guy on a forum. But you have a higher post count, so you must be smarter, right?

As I said before, whatever.

DamonB

Then you certainly understand weight transfer and its effects on traction.

You can be the perfect driver and have the perfect braking system with perfect bias and perfectly balance the tires at threshold each and every time in a straight line. If the car is doing anything other than going perfectly straight on a perfectly flat surface it is impossible for your super driver skills to hold each tire at its limit of grip because you have only one input to all four tires: the brake pedal. The brake bias and your foot can only control brake pressure front to rear. What happens if the car is turning even slightly? What happens if one side of the car is riding over bumps? What happens if one side of the car is on grippier pavement? What happens if somebody kicked up dirt on the inside of the track? You must back off on brake pedal pressure so that the least loaded tire doesn't lock and thus the other tires are forced to brake at the ability of the least grippy tire. You're forced to brake to the limit of the tire with the least amount of grip in EVERY situation. Now maybe you're God and you can do wonderful things with a brake pedal to prevent tires from locking but you will always be forced to brake to the limit of the tire with the least amount of grip. If you choose not to, you lock that tire.

An ABS system is completely different. It takes your one input from the brake pedal and turns that into "perfect" for each and every tire. That is impossible for you to do unless you have 4 feet and 4 brake pedals, one for each tire (or in the case of the 3 channel FD, 3 feet and 3 brake pedals). An ABS system allows you to brake to the limit of the tire with the greatest amount of grip while sending less pressure to the other tires on verge of locking. If you were God himself you could not do that with only a brake pedal and a bias bar. This is why a true ABS system will always stop faster; ABS allows each tire to brake to its greatest ability. A man behind a non-ABS brake pedal is forced to brake to the tire of least ability, regardless of that man's talent.

Sepennkai

Of course I do, and I also understand that ABS takes control of the friction circle out of the drivers hands and puts it squarely in the control of a computer that can't distinguish one situation from another. There are times that I want to initiate a small skid, or tighten a corner by increasing slip angle. Things that are harder, though not impossible with ABS controlling your brakes.

Rynberg said that the new Viper stops 20 feet shorter due to ABS. Stop distance tests like that are performed on prepped surfaces (or are supposed to be, anyway), and on a prepped surface like that, under optimal conditions, ABS will not knock 20 feet off of the distance. Other factors are at play here. I am not saying ABS is useless, I AM saying that ABS is not the reason that the Viper stops shorter now. I don't like people spreading misinformation. ABS is safer and under panic situations can save your *** over and over again. But at the track, MY lap times go down with ABS disabled. It is obviously not the same for everyone. So it seems that his comment earlier about "removing it and reducing braking performance" doesn't hold up too well in my book.

Now that I don't have time to run track days except maybe twice a year, I might just try to get the ABS working in my FD again. When it stopped working and my lap times dropped, I just left it alone, but he's right about one thing. For a street only car, there's no real reason.

DamonB

As long as the driver is in control of the steering, the throttle and the brake pedal he is in charge of the friction circle; ABS or no ABS.

If you're trying to transfer weight off the rear and onto the front by using the brakes to help rotate the car maximum weight transfer is going to occur before any tires lock. Once either of the fronts lock braking force goes down and thus weight transfer to the front also goes down. Once either of the rears lock than either A) the fronts are already locked and the car is skidding thus wasting braking power and rubber B) the rear tire(s) is airborne and thus locking has no effect whatsoever on the car or C) the bias is screwed up.

If locking tire(s) is required to get the car around the track the tires are being used improperly.