photopaintball

any downsides?

the only one I can think of is you may have to upgrade the fuel system to supply much more fuel and would have to carry more fuel (more weight)


is it just because of the availability of gas? oh and possibly corrosion?


edit-according to wikipedia, e85 is just as capable at e100 in terms of power.

I think that being able to dump 110+octane denatured alcohol in your car and tune for it would be wonderful.


why do people run seperate injectors for alky? Is it because they want to get the right percentage of fuel/alky? cooling?

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

Well first off your fuel system isn't made for 100 percent alky it has to be setup that way. Second off it's illegal to run that on the roads, thirdly most street driven cars don't need to run straight alky. Top dragsters in puerto rico and all over run straight alky but your talking about 7 second rx7's that are only track driven, not your average street tuner.

photopaintball

Does anyone know what would need to be changed for 100 percent alky and if it would be of notable benefit?

It seems like people spend a ton of time messing around tuning for the right percentage of alky and gas.

If your going to have a several gallon tank for alky, why not have two tunes and run it through your injectors?

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

You can run E-85, but you will need to be on a standalone because you will need about 30% or so more fuel. Will also need bigger injectors, larger fuel pump, and upgraded lines. It can be done, but with the price of E85 being what it is right now, its probably not worth it.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

don't forget fuel filter that can handle alky.

Seruy

Illegal? It actually has so much less emissions that ppl who are going to do the sniff test will have their eyes pop out. It is actually preffered to have the car run on pure ehtanol, does not contribute anything to the atmosphere (closed end cycle). The only tricky part is that it takes so much time and work to make ethanol (from plants mostly).

P.S. Google hydrogen powered rotary, that is also amazing what this can do (runs on water man!!!).

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

E85 isnt illegal!

photopaintball

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. I'll be running megasquirt with a carputer so I can do runs and tune with as little dyno time as possible. (I'm cheap)

What about a water/fuel seperator (if possible) like on diesels? Doesn't ethanol absorb moisture?

It is kind of pricey, but I figure I'll run two gas tanks. One 91 oct and one alky gas tank. (not unlike using a seprate tank for a 50/50 injection)


I think more people ought to do this. I guess stand alone is where people say no?

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Diesel is an oil based fuel... Oil and water don't mix, hence why it's easy to seperate water from diesel.

Alcohol is hygroscopic. The water actually gets taken into the chemical structure... Try filtering the water out of your old brake fluid sometime, or from your Scotch on the rocks... It can't be done without evaporation with such a device as a still, which coincidentially, you need for the production of alcohol...



The reason people don't run straight ethanol is because of the availability of it.

Fuel system shouldn't be too hard to get... A good standalone should be around $300. I'm not sure if aftermarket fuel pumps of injecctors are ethanol compatible, but you can scavenge those offa flex fuel vehicles in the scrap yard.

The problem is availability of ethanol. There are like 3 stations in a 100 mile radius of Washington D.C. that sell ethanol. I think some of them are fleet fuel stations that only serve government vehicles or comapny vehicles, not open to the public... Even then, it's E85...

To get your own 100% pure ethanol, you need to build a still and have an alcohol fuel permit... It's a lotta work to produce ethanol. Takes a lotta plant material to make a little batch of it.

zinx

iTrader: (3)

Since when does anyone care about fuels being illegal? I know a ton of people around that run all sorts of leaded race fuels on the street.

A cop is never going to notice the difference between E85 and E100, if they ever ask, just say its e85.

I've heard that ethanol will eat away rubber components so that will be a good one to check as well as a little research to see what else alcohol doesn't like. You will want to get rid of your paper fuel filter too, and make sure your pump will support it both in volume and fuel type.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

ok my bad I could have sworn ethenol was illegal because it's more volitile then pump fuel but I guess i was mistaken. But pele is absolutley right, getting the stuff is going to be hard. I don't even think they sell ethenol around here.

zinx

iTrader: (3)

There are 19 stations within 100 miles of me that have E85 and one is less than 1 mile away. I guess i'm lucky or maybe its because i'm in the midwest.

You can buy 55 gal drums of 100% ethanol. I can get you some sources if you'd like.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I can get E85 at a gas station one block from my house.

BoostedRex

I haven't seen a single E85 station in NorCal.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Thats odd, its hippie ville up there.

photopaintball

I can get leaded 100, but how would I tune with it? Won't it destroy oxygen sensors?

I would only use ethanol when I am racing.


So the eth. fuel pumps and filters use special seals or something that dont corrode from ethanol?

zinx

iTrader: (3)

http://www.e85refueling.com/location...e=CACalifornia

ouch there are only 4 places that have it in CA and only one open to the public and its in SD.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

I still stick by pele's answer. Nothing in lousiana and only a hand full in each state. Good luck with that.

photopaintball

I can buy denatured alcohol. I dont have to purchase it at a pump.

Seruy

Quick question, I didn't do much of a research but in order to run on ethanol you need to have high compression engine right? Aside the better fuel pump and bigger injectors, of course.

photopaintball

People run it on low comp turbo motor all the time I thought?

ikari899

yeah you can run ethanol on any thing BUT it is a harder fuel to tune on, from my personal experience with trying to run it on a turbo charged gsxr 600 motor. i was also talking to a big domestic guy in down about E85 and he thinks its a horrible race fuel because it does not seem to be very consistant. E85 will also corrode AL so you are going to have to get some new fuel rails because it likes to eat away at those and bring the AL into the motor with it, which is never good. and yeah you are going to have to find a fuel pump and filter rated for ethanol.

E85 is used because so much E100 would have to be used to start the motor you are risking flooding the motor. the 15 percent gas makes it easier to start the motor without risking flooding. at least thats what i have read

photopaintball

If I did it I wouldn't use E85 specifically, I would just mix denatured alcohol and 100 octane leaded.

There would be two systems. One with cheap gas, and one with race gas/ethanol mix.

so steel fittings, special hoses that wont corrode, fuel filter, and pump?

will I need special ethanol injectors or just 30% larger ones?

ikari899

well i would go with slightly larger injectors. not necessarily 30 percent, a little bigger would be fine, just to be nice to them and make sure you arent stressing them that much. as long as you are under 80-90 percent duty cycle you will be fine.

Seruy

Thanks for the answers guys. The reason I asked is that pure thanol has like 130 octane number. So... 85 is like ~115. I currently have Civic Si with 10.7 compression engine, this should be fine on mine. So I was wondering how different would it run on rotaries.

BTW, what are the compression #'s on the FD?