Beast From The East

Those are all great ideas, Gordon. I'm sure Kevin W. has the skills to make that all happen, and I know YOU'VE got the $$$ and the insane desire.....See the PM I sent you last week regarding how much I'm in the project so far. I'm not comfortable releasing a dollar amount to the rest of the group since I have been given special consideration by Checkpoint as the first adopter of this project. You have demonstrated to me that you understand that a custom project like this cost whatever it costs - period. Checkpoint does have WAY more hours in this project than what they've billed me for. However, they have two more on the shelf waiting to go into other cars...

How about the 20B setup you we're talking about in a drag rail :-) or an caged RX-2.....? Could you fit it in a Lotus Super7 clone (hmmmm, that would be even more of a death trap than the old 550 Spyders or the 427SC Cobras.....). As Dave Myers from Checkpoint says - "Speed cost money - how fast do you want to go?"

Beast

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i've been driving the 20b all week. with the stock turbo's at 5psi (wastegate spring) and a 4.5k redline (stock fuel pump) its about stock fd fast, and it feels like a big german v12 with cams.

mike

artguy

beast you said my words that were on my lips...and fingertips.

I wanted to go single...looked at all of them...had to settle with the m2 setup because in cali anything that is not stock will cause you problems both with the law (pulled over for exhaust even if it is quiet etc...)...they will also open your hood when they pull you over to check your intake system. They ticket everything.

I cant even get an officer to sign off on my exhaust even after it has its silencers in...they wont even look at it unless it is stock. bone stock.

they ask lots of questions...if its not stock you are basically screwed in my experience.

fortunately for me they blew it and gave me my registration without seeing my smog info..haha

coulda gone single after all...but who knew.

I got my maps from kdr today on the m2 set...will dyno as soon as i get my map sensor and ignition at the end of the month...have to do some tuning and Im done.

I would be intensely happy with 400 hp.

but i disagree with you on one point gordon...I dont care how much a car has power above 4500 rpms. I drive my car every day on the stop and go streets of LA and Orange County. That kind of machine is worthless to me here. If i lived where there were such a thing as an open road i would feel differently. I need my guts below 5k when Im around town...truly do. that is why i went m2. I have full boost by 2800 rpms.


j

1bad180sx

"after several years of people talking about single turbo "lag" it still turns out the guys who discuss this the most are the guys who haven't driven a big single. a twin may have a little "on throttle" low rpm responsiveness that my T78 doesn;t have, but, when the T78 gets on its still a wild mouse ride that the twins can't ever approach. while you can debate which big single to go with once you've ridden in one, you'll never go back. -gordon"


Gordon, you are so right. I get so tired of listening to people on the internet cry about turbo lag. I drive an SR20DET powered 180sx with a nice sized T04E on it. I originally wanted a hybrid setup with little lag, but then I drove Igy's RX7. I very quickly changed my mind. He was running (I believe) a T04R at the time... and that son of a bitch flew. Sure, the turbo didn't spool for a while, but you very quickly forgot about the lag after the turbo spooled.

Go for big power. If you are already spending so much money, you might as well get what you're paying for.

artguy

1bad...read what i said...i cant go single because of the smog laws here and a big single would be a pain in the *** to drive in the traffic Im forced to drive in.

I hate lag...I hate low end power loss and poor response. If i lived in the country or in a state with more open roads then Id love to have a big single.
but I live in the LA area and I wouldnt be able to enjoy the power band like I do with the m2 setup.

Ill say it again...I hate lag.

j

Beast From The East

I didn't feel like cutting and pasting this all over, so here's the first results of the new twins (cross-posted). Right now the single guys have nothing to worry about:-) but more tuning is to come!

Beast

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...739#post966739

ORX705

here is my dyno results from my old to4B setup [1.15exh housing 0.6 compressor housing, unsure of wheel specs so don't ask] and my new twin TDO518G set up. don't worry about the top end as my clutch was slipping. if u compare both, midrange is almost identical. In the future I will try messing around with 2 turbos from the RB25DET Nissan motor

ORX705

here is the twin TDO5 dyno result

ORX705

heres the twin setup.

Beast From The East

Cross- Posted thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...634#post980634

Beast From The East

All -

It looks like many folks are interested in my setup, since Checkpoint has been getting phone calls, mostly asking for how much power and how much money. In order to answer the power questions, Checkpoint called me and offered to get a quick dyno run done for me just to establish some base-line numbers (without any tuning yet). What the heck, it was free, so I gave them the car this morning.

They did two quick runs. The first run discovered yet another boost leak stemming from the fast idle hose that runs into the back of the intake elbow. For those of us using the Greddy elbow there is no attachment nipple, and we were informed by a reputable source that we could just leave it unattached. Wrong - it vents boost, and needs to be replumbed into the intake. It was pinched off temporarily for the second dyno run, and I have an appointment for next Wednesday to get the new nipple welded onto the elbow.

Here are the numbers from the last run:

330.6 rwhp@7189rpm, 264 ft lbs @5814rpm at 16 lbs. boost, fourth gear pull, 91 octane pos California pump gas.

My wideband indicated that I had the car way too rich, with afr's less than 10.2 - the car was beginning to sputter and pop due to too much fuel. I'm just paranoid to blow the motor, so I jacked them too high. It's also is using the same ignition maps initially set by Ray at SR, when I used the stock turbos. Also remember that I have stock porting on this motor.

Intake temps stayed steady even at full boost, just using one of those little fans blowing in the intake mouth of the front. Unlike the stockers, where the manifold glowed red hot after a run, the manifold stayed a normal color and the piping for the i/c was still cool enough to touch after the charge went through the i/c. (it was sizzling warm on the pipe going into the i/c, but cool afterwards).

Overall, I'm very happy, and optimistic that 400 rwhp is available using this setup. I need to take out fuel, adjust timing, and conduct other tuning activities to get there, We also feel we need to get to ~18 lbs of boost to achieve the number, which is where the turbo builder believes is the efficiency sweet spot for this setup. This will mean a 3 bar MAP sensor and a complete reprogramming of the PFC, I would imagine. If anyone out there has experience with a 3 bar MAP sensor and the PFC, I would appreciate your input as to what I need to do to get it to work.

Speaking of which, after seeing some of the Forum threads and pictures of the GT 35/40 single set-ups, I thought that there was no way that this hybrid twin uses them - the twin housings are just too small. So, I asked Checkpoint to get the right info from the builder, to make sure I'm not giving out false info. Sure enough, this setup is NOT 35/40 - they tried to use that wheel initially, but it was too big for the stock housings no matter how much they were machined. It uses Garrett cartridges with a '60 trim' compressor wheel (which I'm told is similar to a T04B or E size). They are not like the GT30 twins sold by M2. I apologize to the Forum and big single folks who may have been wondering 'how the hell did he get two of those things in there'?

The turbo builder and Checkpoint are reluctant to release any more info about the turbos, such as exhaust wheel and the custom welding, as it is proprietary.

The dyno has the two runs from today AND the old dyno run from when I used the main cat and stock sequential setup, also running too rich. The red dotted line is my old one before the turbos, the red solid line is the first run, and the green solid line is the last. The elimination of the sequential swichover is the most noticeable difference, besides the upshift in the power, of course :-) You can see the upgraded twins catch the bhp and torque of the quick spooling stockers by ~ 3000 rpm.

Unfortunately I just discovered that the dyno .gif is about 550kb, over the limit that I can attach. I'll see if my buddy can host it on his site. If not, maybe he can scruntch it down.

I'll keep you all posted on the next race and dyno runs after tuning.....thanks for your interest, and rotor on.....

Beast

Beast From The East

Checkpoint is beginning to get some better pictures of the hybrid twin setup, including an intake opening compared to stock, the second wastegate, the y-pipe collar, and what the turbos look like hung on the engine. There are all pictures of my turbo and motor.

http://www.checkpointmotors.net/Gallery.asp?albumID=7

We just ordered the 3 bar map sensor from Ray at SR and he'll walk us through the settings on the PFC. After that it's a bit more boost, more dyno tuning and hopefully 400 rwhp out of twins :-)

Did anyone else out there ever get to 400 rwhp with a twin setup? I know there are many out there doing it on big singles......

Beast

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

my friend did 387@ 17 psi n the xs dyno on the stock twins, he is at the point where the stock sized boost control can't raise the boost anymore

mike

artguy

yer friend is also at the point where is turbos are frying like chicken in the deepfryer too long.

Barwick

so in theory.. if you had a BUTTLOAD of money, and someone to do the work for you, there's more potential in a GOOD sequential system than a GOOD single system?

artguy

i wouldnt say that...

there is just potential to pass smog here in cali and still have a smokin fast car that can be driven in stop and go traffic...not laggy in other words.




j

Beast From The East

Here is the dyno sheet which is cross-posted from another thread.

Beast

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=91272