What happened to my engine? (RE) (PICs + Video)
05-16-09, 10:30 PM
#76
So why did you put the motor together in the first place if you had such a problem with the ports? Also is it particularly a smart thing to change turbos in a rotary without changing the tune to adjust for the differences in boost/fuel curves amongst other things? Maybe I'm a bit over paranoid about the rotary breaking but if I went from a master power t70 to a Turbonetics t70 I would have my car retuned without thinking twice because it's just that important. Also if there were a flaw in the porting design wouldn't all the motors he ports have this issue? If not what made your motor do it as apposed to everyone else’s BDC ported motors? No offence, just a few questions.
05-17-09, 08:12 AM
#77
Lol, did you read anything before posting?
If I knew the ports were bad before I put them in, I would not have put them in. I had trust in the person that ported my plates and did not know that I needed to verify his ports. I was not aware the ports were this bad until the damage it caused obviously. Did you really just say that?
A bad tune does not blow side seals and corner seals slowly. Even so, my AFRs were perfectly fine and I was only boosting 10 to 11 psi. The port job blew this engine, it is obvious. If there is no way you can see this, you are either blind, have some serious problems you should get checked out soon, or did not read any ANY of the last 2 pages of this thread.
I know you are having work done by BDC, I wish the best of luck to you! Make sure you double check your ports or something before you put them in like you suggest. Send them off to a different person to verify or something, I donno. lol
If I knew the ports were bad before I put them in, I would not have put them in. I had trust in the person that ported my plates and did not know that I needed to verify his ports. I was not aware the ports were this bad until the damage it caused obviously. Did you really just say that?
A bad tune does not blow side seals and corner seals slowly. Even so, my AFRs were perfectly fine and I was only boosting 10 to 11 psi. The port job blew this engine, it is obvious. If there is no way you can see this, you are either blind, have some serious problems you should get checked out soon, or did not read any ANY of the last 2 pages of this thread.
I know you are having work done by BDC, I wish the best of luck to you! Make sure you double check your ports or something before you put them in like you suggest. Send them off to a different person to verify or something, I donno. lol
Then again I can also see it from your standpoint as well being that it seems like there is quite a bit of evidence that would point to a port with no bevel being the culprit. I do have to ask though, why wouldn't this happen on the other side if it is the port that is the problem? Anyways all I'm saying is that both you guys seem to be reasonable people and I'm sure if you sent your iron off to Brian like he asked and found it was a problem with the port I'm sure he would make good on it. What is worst case scenario cost wise to get the motor up and running again? Middle iron, side seals, corner seals, gasket kit and...
05-17-09, 08:15 AM
#78
lol sorry man, drunk posting is not always for the win 
I'm just wanting to see a a good resolution to this instead of a bunch of mud being flung around. As much as some people like to see drama here on the club, I'd rather a nice peaceful place free of girl type drama 
I'm just wanting to see a a good resolution to this instead of a bunch of mud being flung around. As much as some people like to see drama here on the club, I'd rather a nice peaceful place free of girl type drama
05-22-09, 10:34 PM
#79
Wow.. I missed out on all the fun here..
Anyway after looking at those pics i would say your engine failed from the ports...
I would go ahead and get new plates and put your engine back together with factory ports.
You will make more then enough power for what you need and won't risk any reability issues with your engine. Hell my brother's car made over 700hp with factory ports..
Anyway after looking at those pics i would say your engine failed from the ports...
I would go ahead and get new plates and put your engine back together with factory ports.
You will make more then enough power for what you need and won't risk any reability issues with your engine. Hell my brother's car made over 700hp with factory ports..
05-23-09, 08:03 PM
#80
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Hondahater, read the posts on nopistons. They make more sense than someone trying to put it in to words here. Mr Hannover (as he is known over at nopistons) has been dealing with rotaries since before I was born and knows more about them than most people know about cars in a general sense, or perhaps how to use a spoon to eat cereal.
This is not something that would be caused by simply changing the turbo. FOD doesn't show up on the trailing edge of EVERY port. Not very likely that the damage would be symetric either. This was a case of porting error. Everyone makes mistakes, some more often than others. BDC has always had awesome looking ports, but he is no expert, just knows more than most about rotaries. That and I find that he has a great deal of publicity surrounding him considering.
As with many things.... Those in the know should always be willing to learn, especially when mistakes are made. Anyone who wants to learn more than they can handle about porting or general engine building concerning the rotary should take a look at the nopistons engine building forum. Tons of good reading there.
This is not something that would be caused by simply changing the turbo. FOD doesn't show up on the trailing edge of EVERY port. Not very likely that the damage would be symetric either. This was a case of porting error. Everyone makes mistakes, some more often than others. BDC has always had awesome looking ports, but he is no expert, just knows more than most about rotaries. That and I find that he has a great deal of publicity surrounding him considering.
As with many things.... Those in the know should always be willing to learn, especially when mistakes are made. Anyone who wants to learn more than they can handle about porting or general engine building concerning the rotary should take a look at the nopistons engine building forum. Tons of good reading there.
Last edited by dpf22; 05-23-09 at 08:05 PM. Reason: oops
05-23-09, 08:15 PM
#81
Wow.. I missed out on all the fun here..
Anyway after looking at those pics i would say your engine failed from the ports...
I would go ahead and get new plates and put your engine back together with factory ports.
You will make more then enough power for what you need and won't risk any reability issues with your engine. Hell my brother's car made over 700hp with factory ports..
Anyway after looking at those pics i would say your engine failed from the ports...
I would go ahead and get new plates and put your engine back together with factory ports.
You will make more then enough power for what you need and won't risk any reability issues with your engine. Hell my brother's car made over 700hp with factory ports..
I think were on to something ????? lol ...........
06-15-09, 11:51 PM
#82
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Just an update, I finally got back into town, and was able to ship the plate back off to BDC. Should be there by the end of the week. In the meantime, I am still looking for a stock RE intermediate plate. (shameless plug)
06-16-09, 09:28 AM
#83
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when i first got into rotaries, there was a shop that used to build my engines, i would break in the engine no boost or abuse. the moment i decide to get on it, 5 psi, i would have blow by, broken side seals. i would bring it back they would rebuild, no problems then break again. i decided to build myself. upon inspection i found out that it was porting error. the guy who ported the engine had port many more engines that ran fine, that one day his hands moved a little, f-up a port. i've been doing every thing myself since then. my suggestions, if you can pay someone to mess it up for you why not mess it up yourself. don't give up, been through alot of **** with rotaries but i still love them.
06-16-09, 10:51 PM
#85
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I have no opinions only facts. Unlike most of the stuff I read in these posts.
First, the stock secondary trailing edge side seal goes unsupported over the port. Yep, from the factory
without beveled edges, oh my. So we can throw that theory out.
I have no idea what anchient thing Lynn Hanover was talking about, very smart man, but it was most likely a 12A that revs to 10,500rpm and stays between 9,000 and 10,000 for an hour at a time. I would prolly bevel on something like that too.
Second, In looking at the primary ports seen in this post the track for the
leading edge does not fall into the port. Who cares if the trailing edge does.
Its not a problem. So, we can throw that theory out.
So what was the clearence on the side seal to corner seal again?
An open hole in the intake?
Why are those black thingys in the corner seals? Your trash will not function properly
without those in it.
Comon, someone should have known the obvious stuff I pointed out above?
Aww screw it, lets hang Brian by his thumbs
06-16-09, 11:27 PM
#86
The info has been presented to you. The reason Lynn says it is a problem is because it is. Go back and read closer. It has nothing to do with stock ports because of the shape of the port. When you go changing the shape of the port this problem can arise. I had the same problem on my first port job and thanks to Lynn i knew what caused it. I even cut apart an old rotor so i could see exactly what he was describing and it is a FACT! I now keep a cut up rotor around just to verify that the side seals are not colliding with the opening/closing radius of the port. It's not about hanging anyone or punishing anyone, the reason people are contributing information is so others can learn from their mistakes. I think people would be grateful that this info is being made public
06-17-09, 12:55 AM
#87
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Busted for sure, if that was a problem every FC on the road would have it.
I have no opinions only facts. Unlike most of the stuff I read in these posts.
First, the stock secondary trailing edge side seal goes unsupported over the port. Yep, from the factory
without beveled edges, oh my. So we can throw that theory out.
I have no opinions only facts. Unlike most of the stuff I read in these posts.
First, the stock secondary trailing edge side seal goes unsupported over the port. Yep, from the factory
without beveled edges, oh my. So we can throw that theory out.
This has already been stated, but tell me, in your book of facts, what happens when you have too little, or too big of a clearance issue? How could that cause the side seals to break off and disappear? How does clearancing my side seals incorrectly bevel the outside tips of the trailing side of the side seals? I have 5000+ miles on the motor, how did it last that long? How did those marks get on both sides of the primary ports? lol
People run without filters all the time, and the damage was gradual (over 2 days and 500 miles or something), not like I sucked up a bolt. The idea of FOD has been dismissed.
No, it seems as though most people actually read the threads, most have made educated responses, and do not try to pass off random facts that have nothing to do with any of the current issues, because they only browsed the thread and felt they needed to try to post something in defense of the person that did the port job. I am not out to hang Brian, I want to know what happened to my engine, and possibly stop someone else from making the same mistake. (porting it incorrectly or spending money on a port job service that will solely kill their engine.) I have got increasingly annoyed how BDC has handled the situation, especially after all the recent information. I have sent the plate to BDC to get his final opinion. I hope then he will finally see the light learns something, and fixes his porting. Even if he does, it's not like he is going to pay for all the parts for a rebuild and somehow make up for all the stress, lost time, and events I have missed because of his mistake. If he doesn't there isn't much I can do anyways except try and protect other people's projects from his currently obviously inferior services.
06-17-09, 01:30 AM
#88
Busted for sure, if that was a problem every FC on the road would have it.
I have no opinions only facts. Unlike most of the stuff I read in these posts.
First, the stock secondary trailing edge side seal goes unsupported over the port. Yep, from the factory
without beveled edges, oh my. So we can throw that theory out.
I have no idea what anchient thing Lynn Hanover was talking about, very smart man, but it was most likely a 12A that revs to 10,500rpm and stays between 9,000 and 10,000 for an hour at a time. I would prolly bevel on something like that too.
Second, In looking at the primary ports seen in this post the track for the
leading edge does not fall into the port. Who cares if the trailing edge does.
Its not a problem. So, we can throw that theory out.
So what was the clearence on the side seal to corner seal again?
An open hole in the intake?
Why are those black thingys in the corner seals? Your trash will not function properly
without those in it.
Comon, someone should have known the obvious stuff I pointed out above?
Aww screw it, lets hang Brian by his thumbs
I have no opinions only facts. Unlike most of the stuff I read in these posts.
First, the stock secondary trailing edge side seal goes unsupported over the port. Yep, from the factory
without beveled edges, oh my. So we can throw that theory out.
I have no idea what anchient thing Lynn Hanover was talking about, very smart man, but it was most likely a 12A that revs to 10,500rpm and stays between 9,000 and 10,000 for an hour at a time. I would prolly bevel on something like that too.
Second, In looking at the primary ports seen in this post the track for the
leading edge does not fall into the port. Who cares if the trailing edge does.
Its not a problem. So, we can throw that theory out.
So what was the clearence on the side seal to corner seal again?
An open hole in the intake?
Why are those black thingys in the corner seals? Your trash will not function properly
without those in it.
Comon, someone should have known the obvious stuff I pointed out above?
Aww screw it, lets hang Brian by his thumbs
06-17-09, 09:50 AM
#90
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Troll, good god, I had to look that up.
How does my post make me a troll? I stated FACTS directly related to the inquiry of the original poster. If the best you can come up with is to call me a troll then you obviously dont have anything to refute my statements.
What I said stands on its own, anyone who has ever setup their own ports can easily see and
understand how the sideseal will interact with the ports shown in this thread.
Seriously, tell me how Im wrong? Tell me in "your own experience" of setting up ports
where my logic is flawed.
Im sorry my post count is smaller than the number of rotarys Ive
worked on.
From my personal experience it looks like the leading edge
of the side seal is supported all the way across that port. If that is the case
then there is no way that port caused the side seal to break.
Again, tell me how my logic is flawed????
How does my post make me a troll? I stated FACTS directly related to the inquiry of the original poster. If the best you can come up with is to call me a troll then you obviously dont have anything to refute my statements.
What I said stands on its own, anyone who has ever setup their own ports can easily see and
understand how the sideseal will interact with the ports shown in this thread.
Seriously, tell me how Im wrong? Tell me in "your own experience" of setting up ports
where my logic is flawed.
Im sorry my post count is smaller than the number of rotarys Ive
worked on.
From my personal experience it looks like the leading edge
of the side seal is supported all the way across that port. If that is the case
then there is no way that port caused the side seal to break.
Again, tell me how my logic is flawed????
06-17-09, 10:16 AM
#91
Troll, good god, I had to look that up.
How does my post make me a troll? I stated FACTS directly related to the inquiry of the original poster. If the best you can come up with is to call me a troll then you obviously dont have anything to refute my statements.
What I said stands on its own, anyone who has ever setup their own ports can easily see and
understand how the sideseal will interact with the ports shown in this thread.
Seriously, tell me how Im wrong? Tell me in "your own experience" of setting up ports
where my logic is flawed.
Im sorry my post count is smaller than the number of rotarys Ive
worked on.
From my personal experience it looks like the leading edge
of the side seal is supported all the way across that port. If that is the case
then there is no way that port caused the side seal to break.
Again, tell me how my logic is flawed????
How does my post make me a troll? I stated FACTS directly related to the inquiry of the original poster. If the best you can come up with is to call me a troll then you obviously dont have anything to refute my statements.
What I said stands on its own, anyone who has ever setup their own ports can easily see and
understand how the sideseal will interact with the ports shown in this thread.
Seriously, tell me how Im wrong? Tell me in "your own experience" of setting up ports
where my logic is flawed.
Im sorry my post count is smaller than the number of rotarys Ive
worked on.
From my personal experience it looks like the leading edge
of the side seal is supported all the way across that port. If that is the case
then there is no way that port caused the side seal to break.
Again, tell me how my logic is flawed????
Tweakgames illustration on page 2 is pretty spot on man.
Take it for what it is, I have no dog in this fight and I could care less how it turns out. BDC has a good rep and has answered questions for me in the past about porting whenever I asked. Look at some of the more aggressive porting out there and you will see that the opening edge of the port(near the coolant seal) is usually extended higher than the inside(oil ring area) part of the closing edge of the port and has a downward angle. Hopefully that made sense. I seen a couple engines tore down with foreign objects sucked thru them and the damage was much more evident.Take it for what it is, Im sure BDC will work this out with him and all will be good. This stuff happens.
06-17-09, 10:39 AM
#92
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Tweakgames illustration on page 2 is pretty spot on man. Take it for what it is, I have no dog in this fight and I could care less how it turns out. BDC has a good rep and has answered questions for me in the past about porting whenever I asked. Look at some of the more aggressive porting out there and you will see that the opening edge of the port(near the coolant seal) is usually extended higher than the inside(oil ring area) part of the closing edge of the port and has a downward angle. Hopefully that made sense. I seen a couple engines tore down with foreign objects sucked thru them and the damage was much more evident.
Take it for what it is, Im sure BDC will work this out with him and all will be good. This stuff happens.
Take it for what it is, I have no dog in this fight and I could care less how it turns out. BDC has a good rep and has answered questions for me in the past about porting whenever I asked. Look at some of the more aggressive porting out there and you will see that the opening edge of the port(near the coolant seal) is usually extended higher than the inside(oil ring area) part of the closing edge of the port and has a downward angle. Hopefully that made sense. I seen a couple engines tore down with foreign objects sucked thru them and the damage was much more evident.Take it for what it is, Im sure BDC will work this out with him and all will be good. This stuff happens.
of the side seals? You dont know that the factory secondary port sweeps the side seal over the port unsupported? The illistration illistrates what happens on the factory port, if a modified port does the same thing, how is it a problem?
I dont need to "look" at some of the agressive porting out there, Ive made ports as large as they will go. I understand whats involved to make that work well.
Im asking you to identify the leading and trailing tracks of the side seal. Compare that with what factory does then think about it for a sec So again, why would bdc hafta do a thing other than to apease the keyboard mechanics?
You sell rebuilt engines, enlighten me on your porting exprtiese, show me with your porting experience how my logic is flawed??
It may help for some to grab a peice of plexiglass, cut out holes for the dowels and then the factory ports, setup half an engine and see what actually happens.
Ive not just "seen" but actually tore down and rebuilt an engine with fod and an engine with poorly clearenced side seals as well as an engine that had the leading edge of the side seal unsupported. The "damage" on the port looks the same on all 3. Its not till you look at the side seals and the port opening that you realize whats going on.
06-17-09, 10:49 AM
#93
Your sig says you sell rebuilt engines? So you cant Identify the leading and trailing edges tracks
of the side seals? You dont know that the factory secondary port sweeps the side seal over the port unsupported? The illistration illistrates what happens on the factory port, if a modified port does the same thing, how is it a problem?
I dont need to "look" at some of the agressive porting out there, Ive made ports as large as they will go. I understand whats involved to make that work well.
Im asking you to identify the leading and trailing tracks of the side seal. Compare that with what factory does then think about it for a sec So again, why would bdc hafta do a thing other than to apease the keyboard mechanics?
You sell rebuilt engines, enlighten me on your porting exprtiese, show me with your porting experience how my logic is flawed??
It may help for some to grab a peice of plexiglass, cut out holes for the dowels and then the factory ports, setup half an engine and see what actually happens.
of the side seals? You dont know that the factory secondary port sweeps the side seal over the port unsupported? The illistration illistrates what happens on the factory port, if a modified port does the same thing, how is it a problem?
I dont need to "look" at some of the agressive porting out there, Ive made ports as large as they will go. I understand whats involved to make that work well.
Im asking you to identify the leading and trailing tracks of the side seal. Compare that with what factory does then think about it for a sec So again, why would bdc hafta do a thing other than to apease the keyboard mechanics?
You sell rebuilt engines, enlighten me on your porting exprtiese, show me with your porting experience how my logic is flawed??
It may help for some to grab a peice of plexiglass, cut out holes for the dowels and then the factory ports, setup half an engine and see what actually happens.
I doubt that Brian does the *exact* same port on everything. Guy's good but he's human not a CNC.
Unless you have THE plate in question in front of you to mock up and verify, there's no way to say it is or isn't overporting IMO.
Its an odd failure for sure though.
EDIT: But with alot of porting experience, you must realize that going too close to the waterjacket CAN allow the leading edge of the sideseal to drop into the port. And like I said, there's no way to say whether those ports have or have not gone too far without THE EXACT plate in front of you. Anything else is only a guess, yeah?
06-17-09, 10:58 AM
#94
Your sig says you sell rebuilt engines? So you cant Identify the leading and trailing edges tracks
of the side seals? You dont know that the factory secondary port sweeps the side seal over the port unsupported? The illistration illistrates what happens on the factory port, if a modified port does the same thing, how is it a problem?
I dont need to "look" at some of the agressive porting out there, Ive made ports as large as they will go. I understand whats involved to make that work well.
Im asking you to identify the leading and trailing tracks of the side seal. Compare that with what factory does then think about it for a sec So again, why would bdc hafta do a thing other than to apease the keyboard mechanics?
You sell rebuilt engines, enlighten me on your porting exprtiese, show me with your porting experience how my logic is flawed??
It may help for some to grab a peice of plexiglass, cut out holes for the dowels and then the factory ports, setup half an engine and see what actually happens.
Ive not just "seen" but actually tore down and rebuilt an engine with fod and an engine with poorly clearenced side seals as well as an engine that had the leading edge of the side seal unsupported. The "damage" on the port looks the same on all 3. Its not till you look at the side seals and the port opening that you realize whats going on.
of the side seals? You dont know that the factory secondary port sweeps the side seal over the port unsupported? The illistration illistrates what happens on the factory port, if a modified port does the same thing, how is it a problem?
I dont need to "look" at some of the agressive porting out there, Ive made ports as large as they will go. I understand whats involved to make that work well.
Im asking you to identify the leading and trailing tracks of the side seal. Compare that with what factory does then think about it for a sec So again, why would bdc hafta do a thing other than to apease the keyboard mechanics?
You sell rebuilt engines, enlighten me on your porting exprtiese, show me with your porting experience how my logic is flawed??
It may help for some to grab a peice of plexiglass, cut out holes for the dowels and then the factory ports, setup half an engine and see what actually happens.
Ive not just "seen" but actually tore down and rebuilt an engine with fod and an engine with poorly clearenced side seals as well as an engine that had the leading edge of the side seal unsupported. The "damage" on the port looks the same on all 3. Its not till you look at the side seals and the port opening that you realize whats going on.
You got me, I am wrong, hopefully someday I will contribute to this community like you have. This is why I tend to stay clear of these threads. You have people blindly defending other people instead of taking a couple seconds to evaluate the situation. Best of luck to you TweakGames. Heaven forbid anyone think a vendor on this site is capable of a mistake, I mean I know I have personally never made any
Good grief.
06-17-09, 11:11 AM
#95
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I apologize. Ive not contributed much on this board but have quite a bit on others. I also apologize for comming on strong. But I came on trying to clear up some stuff said in this thread that are absolutely untrue. In return I am called a troll and told to look at an illistration that shows what happens on a factory port.
Vendors seem to hold the last word arround here, in doing so, I expect them to know their stuff when making statements.
Im gonna go back to lurking, trying to point out obvious stuff does not get you anywhere arround here.
You got me, I am wrong, hopefully someday I will contribute to this community like you have. This is why I tend to stay clear of these threads. You have people blindly defending other people instead of taking a couple seconds to evaluate the situation. Best of luck to you TweakGames. Heaven forbid anyone think a vendor on this site is capable of a mistake, I mean I know I have personally never made any Good grief.
Vendors seem to hold the last word arround here, in doing so, I expect them to know their stuff when making statements.
Im gonna go back to lurking, trying to point out obvious stuff does not get you anywhere arround here.
You got me, I am wrong, hopefully someday I will contribute to this community like you have. This is why I tend to stay clear of these threads. You have people blindly defending other people instead of taking a couple seconds to evaluate the situation. Best of luck to you TweakGames. Heaven forbid anyone think a vendor on this site is capable of a mistake, I mean I know I have personally never made any Good grief.
06-17-09, 12:16 PM
#96
I apologize. Ive not contributed much on this board but have quite a bit on others. I also apologize for comming on strong. But I came on trying to clear up some stuff said in this thread that are absolutely untrue. In return I am called a troll and told to look at an illistration that shows what happens on a factory port.
Vendors seem to hold the last word arround here, in doing so, I expect them to know their stuff when making statements.
Im gonna go back to lurking, trying to point out obvious stuff does not get you anywhere arround here.
Vendors seem to hold the last word arround here, in doing so, I expect them to know their stuff when making statements.
Im gonna go back to lurking, trying to point out obvious stuff does not get you anywhere arround here.
It is hard for me to decipher who is credible and who isnt on this forum, but you come in with a low post count and I have no way of verifying anything about you so I take your comments for what they were. You claim to point out the "obvious", but your theory isnt obvious to me or about 10 other people in this thread. What is obvious to me is that the trailing edge of the side seal was dipping into the port and hitting the edge of the intake port, but that isnt "obvious" to you. Have you really never seen that happen?
Take it for what it is, but you come in claiming I need to prove my theory but there is absolutely no proof of the theory it was a foreign object, absolutely none. It sure doesnt look like anything I have torn down with a foreign object ran thru it. I dont claim to know it all, and will gladly admit when I am wrong and hope I am proven wrong. However, im far from and internet mechanic and have a decent bit of experience with these engines as well
I stand by my statement, it appears to be just as Tweakgames laid out in his illustration. You wouldnt possibly think I would be speaking from first hand experience/mistakes now would you
06-17-09, 12:21 PM
#97
The info has been presented to you. The reason Lynn says it is a problem is because it is. Go back and read closer. It has nothing to do with stock ports because of the shape of the port. When you go changing the shape of the port this problem can arise. I had the same problem on my first port job and thanks to Lynn i knew what caused it. I even cut apart an old rotor so i could see exactly what he was describing and it is a FACT! I now keep a cut up rotor around just to verify that the side seals are not colliding with the opening/closing radius of the port. It's not about hanging anyone or punishing anyone, the reason people are contributing information is so others can learn from their mistakes. I think people would be grateful that this info is being made public
I skipped over this post earlier apparantly. Couldnt have said it better, we all have different opinions of the "obvious" though.
06-17-09, 12:37 PM
#98
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Nice digs, My experience comes from fixing other peoples mistakes and modifying stock engines. Ive setup my own ports so they dont have these problems.
Again, I ask you, why, if it does this from the factory, is it a problem. Its worse on the factory secondary port from the factory than aftermarket primary. So, how is it a problem. If you cant understand that you have no business posting that it is a problem. Go setup an engine and spin it arround and you will feel pretty stupid.
Also, anyone worth their salt can see the leading and trailing side seal path arround the port in question. If you cant, you shouldnt post. Hell you shouldnt even port without a template you had to buy. Just the distance in relation to the housing marks should be enough to tell you what your loking at.
If you dont know these things, dont post that its clearly the port that caused it cuz with people who know what they are looking at you sound like the catholic church arguing that the earth is the center of the universe.
Again, look at the width on the port, look at the lines on the opening side. Look at a stock secondary port trailing side seal go across a port. Untill you can grasp that, your arguments are just completely bs.
post count does not relate to what Im saying, its all facts, now go learn.
Again, I ask you, why, if it does this from the factory, is it a problem. Its worse on the factory secondary port from the factory than aftermarket primary. So, how is it a problem. If you cant understand that you have no business posting that it is a problem. Go setup an engine and spin it arround and you will feel pretty stupid.
Also, anyone worth their salt can see the leading and trailing side seal path arround the port in question. If you cant, you shouldnt post. Hell you shouldnt even port without a template you had to buy. Just the distance in relation to the housing marks should be enough to tell you what your loking at.
If you dont know these things, dont post that its clearly the port that caused it cuz with people who know what they are looking at you sound like the catholic church arguing that the earth is the center of the universe.
Again, look at the width on the port, look at the lines on the opening side. Look at a stock secondary port trailing side seal go across a port. Untill you can grasp that, your arguments are just completely bs.
post count does not relate to what Im saying, its all facts, now go learn.
Its all good, do what you will. I never called you a troll It is hard for me to decipher who is credible and who isnt on this forum, but you come in with a low post count and I have no way of verifying anything about you so I take your comments for what they were.
You claim to point out the "obvious", but your theory isnt obvious to me or about 10 other people in this thread. What is obvious to me is that the trailing edge of the side seal was dipping into the port and hitting the edge of the intake port, but that isnt "obvious" to you. Have you really never seen that happen?
Take it for what it is, but you come in claiming I need to prove my theory but there is absolutely no proof of the theory it was a foreign object, absolutely none. It sure doesnt look like anything I have torn down with a foreign object ran thru it. I dont claim to know it all, and will gladly admit when I am wrong and hope I am proven wrong. However, im far from and internet mechanic and have a decent bit of experience with these engines as well I stand by my statement, it appears to be just as Tweakgames laid out in his illustration. You wouldnt possibly think I would be speaking from first hand experience/mistakes now would you
It is hard for me to decipher who is credible and who isnt on this forum, but you come in with a low post count and I have no way of verifying anything about you so I take your comments for what they were. You claim to point out the "obvious", but your theory isnt obvious to me or about 10 other people in this thread. What is obvious to me is that the trailing edge of the side seal was dipping into the port and hitting the edge of the intake port, but that isnt "obvious" to you. Have you really never seen that happen?
Take it for what it is, but you come in claiming I need to prove my theory but there is absolutely no proof of the theory it was a foreign object, absolutely none. It sure doesnt look like anything I have torn down with a foreign object ran thru it. I dont claim to know it all, and will gladly admit when I am wrong and hope I am proven wrong. However, im far from and internet mechanic and have a decent bit of experience with these engines as well
I stand by my statement, it appears to be just as Tweakgames laid out in his illustration. You wouldnt possibly think I would be speaking from first hand experience/mistakes now would you
06-17-09, 12:43 PM
#99
Nice digs, My experience comes from fixing other peoples mistakes and modifying stock engines. Ive setup my own ports so they dont have these problems.
Again, I ask you, why, if it does this from the factory, is it a problem. Its worse on the factory secondary port from the factory than aftermarket primary. So, how is it a problem. If you cant understand that you have no business posting that it is a problem. Go setup an engine and spin it arround and you will feel pretty stupid.
Also, anyone worth their salt can see the leading and trailing side seal path arround the port in question. If you cant, you shouldnt post. Hell you shouldnt even port without a template you had to buy. Just the distance in relation to the housing marks should be enough to tell you what your loking at.
If you dont know these things, dont post that its clearly the port that caused it cuz with people who know what they are looking at you sound like the catholic church arguing that the earth is the center of the universe.
Again, look at the width on the port, look at the lines on the opening side. Look at a stock secondary port trailing side seal go across a port. Untill you can grasp that, your arguments are just completely bs.
post count does not relate to what Im saying, its all facts, now go learn.
Again, I ask you, why, if it does this from the factory, is it a problem. Its worse on the factory secondary port from the factory than aftermarket primary. So, how is it a problem. If you cant understand that you have no business posting that it is a problem. Go setup an engine and spin it arround and you will feel pretty stupid.
Also, anyone worth their salt can see the leading and trailing side seal path arround the port in question. If you cant, you shouldnt post. Hell you shouldnt even port without a template you had to buy. Just the distance in relation to the housing marks should be enough to tell you what your loking at.
If you dont know these things, dont post that its clearly the port that caused it cuz with people who know what they are looking at you sound like the catholic church arguing that the earth is the center of the universe.
Again, look at the width on the port, look at the lines on the opening side. Look at a stock secondary port trailing side seal go across a port. Untill you can grasp that, your arguments are just completely bs.
post count does not relate to what Im saying, its all facts, now go learn.
You need to take a spare rotor, iron, eshaft and spend about 10 mins playing around, I promise I wont be the one that is stupid. Look closely at the track the side seal follows, and if you have any sense at all it will become extremely clear why this can/does happen. I give up, for the others reading take my comments for what they are. I am about as far as it gets from an armchair engineer/internet mechanic. My comments and assistance on this forum comes from real world situations and experience with several hundred rotary engines. I did a whole lot of learning/apprenticeship before I started building engines and coming on this forum and spouting stuff off as "obvious facts". Once again good luck to the OP and nothing against BDC, I just have to call it like a see it.
06-17-09, 12:53 PM
#100
~!@#$%^&*()_+
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mpls, MN
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I ask you again, does the side seal drop into the stock secondary port on the trailing edge?
Should be simple to answer since your so "experienced"
You keep dancing arround this. I want a yes or no answer?????
Should be simple to answer since your so "experienced"
You keep dancing arround this. I want a yes or no answer?????
You have to be kidding me, are you serious You need to take a spare rotor, iron, eshaft and spend about 10 mins playing around, I promise I wont be the one that is stupid. Look closely at the track the side seal follows, and if you have any sense at all it will become extremely clear why this can/does happen.
I give up, for the others reading take my comments for what they are. I am about as far as it gets from an armchair engineer/internet mechanic. My comments and assistance on this forum comes from real world situations and experience with several hundred rotary engines. I did a whole lot of learning/apprenticeship before I started building engines and coming on this forum and spouting stuff off as "obvious facts". Once again good luck to the OP and nothing against BDC, I just have to call it like a see it.
You need to take a spare rotor, iron, eshaft and spend about 10 mins playing around, I promise I wont be the one that is stupid. Look closely at the track the side seal follows, and if you have any sense at all it will become extremely clear why this can/does happen. I give up, for the others reading take my comments for what they are. I am about as far as it gets from an armchair engineer/internet mechanic. My comments and assistance on this forum comes from real world situations and experience with several hundred rotary engines. I did a whole lot of learning/apprenticeship before I started building engines and coming on this forum and spouting stuff off as "obvious facts". Once again good luck to the OP and nothing against BDC, I just have to call it like a see it.