WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

One for the welding gurus.
So i shoe-horned an 8374 into my RHD FB and looking to add some more heat shield as it is affecting the immediate ancillaries a lot more than the physically smaller and Ceramic coated TDX i had in there.
Anyways, the easiest and neatest way I can think of doing this would be to tack a couple of threaded bungs to the housing itself so I can make and attach a heat shield.

Was thinking either mild steel or 316 as these are the easiest materials to get hold of. Would this be ok? What type of filler rod would suffice? I have 309L, 316L, r60 and R70 mild steel filler rod handy. Or does it even matter what I use? It will literally be two bungs or nuts with two little tacks on each, and they wont be subjected to any force, just holding a bit of automotive heat sheild.
And would it be ok to do this without removing the housing? Spent 4 days before the new year on my back cutting, welding and wrestling with this twin waste gate contraption, so would be glad not to have to remove it.

Thanks in advance, here's a couple pics of what we're working with.

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

That last pic is deceiving in that it doesnt illustrate just how much bigger a radius the efr t-housing is compared to the garrett.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

first off, nice setup

you are correct to focus on shielding your intake tract from the massive amount of heat from both the turbine housing and downpipe.

typical situations where the front runners are exposed to the turbine housing heat result in the front rotor running more than 1.5 AFRs leaner than the rear. since we generally monitor AFRs in the DP we are getting the average for the two... the average may not representative of the front and rear numbers.

you may be able to park the welder and still get it done.

here's what i settled on...



the most important decision to make is what material will best act as a barrier to heat transfer. just go to EngineeringToolbox and examine the list of materials.

Aluminum 205
Steel 43
Stainless Steel 16
Cast Iron 55
Titanium (alloy) 5.8

MICA .71

the greenish panel between my turbine and LIM is a 1/8th inch sheet of Mica.

prior to installing it i did a little experiment... i exposed it to my propane torch (1300 F) for about 2 minutes, and touched the backside! try doing that w titanium or stainless steel. actually, don't try.

Titanium transfers 8 times more heat than Mica.
Stainless Steel transfers 23 times more heat than Mica.

i suggest you don't do the propane experiment w either stainless or titanium...

a 10 X 12 inch sheet from McMaster Carr costs around $67.
PN 85165K81

you can saw it, drill it. i hung mine off the studs that bolt the UIM to the LIM.
while it is only available as a flat sheet you can cut it and attach to the main sheet at an angle etc.

the sheet is convenient as to size as it can shield your entire LIM...

i also added a PTP LAVA turbo blanket. the Lava is the important part as lava has the same amazing shielding properties as Mica. they have a very interesting U of Texas study re blankets that speaks to concerns re the turbo bearings etc. (PDF on their site). i also use the PTP LAVA heat wrap on my DP.

PTP Turbo Blankets

did you notice that the heat transfer of aluminum was 205?

i am pretty sure our LIM is aluminum... hmmm

Howard

billyboy

I'd be more worried about cooking the master and having no brakes! ^^

I'd probably find someone with a slip roll and make a shield that way.

If you wanted to persist with the idea - assumptions on housing material - BOC sells 347 wire, most welding outlets will break a 5kg pack and sell a handful, I've got 1/2kg here in .8 or .9mm.

Sandvik locally sells 316 in a more machinable grade, that a mold and die maker put me on to, otherwise 303 free machining....if you're going to hand tap.....would be my preference.

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys. Howard your set up is ****. Looks very efficient.

My main concern is the brake booster, steering box and the wiring loom running along the right rail.

The lower intake manifold is pretty well shielded, its coated that gold reflective glass-mat and then the bendable heat shield material covering the whole shooting match. I was thinking to use the same stuff over the turbo as it is easy to bend and shape, doesnt perish, smoke or discolour and seems to do a good job.

So it would be ok to weld these housings BillyBoy? Would 309l filler be ok or do i really need 347?
Also I have some 16mm mild steel rod - which would be very easy to make threaded bungs from without a lathe would it be a problem using this?

How are you guys attaching your turbo heat shields?

I dont have enough room to use a blanket, and not too worried about the thermal conductivity of the shielding - my theory is that as long as line-of-sight radiation is blocked while there is a buffer of (preferably moving) air then job's done.

Speed of light

iTrader: (8)

****, according to a BW document I have, the EFR turbine housings are as cast from [the equivalent of] 310 stainless. Therefore, you should be fine with the 309 rod; TIG of course. I don't see any need to remove the housing if you have adequate access--just be sure to attach the ground directly to the housing you're welding on.

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

Thanks S.O.L, I was looking for that, for some reason i thought it might be a 400 of some type, so thats good news, i think I'll go ahead and use the 309l, in TIG, and yes clamped to the housing - we dont want weird ground arcs going on between moving parts (shudder)

I just knocked up a couple of M6 threaded bungs out of 16mm steel rod, and a cardboard template for the shield. Might just hold off for a bit and see if anyone can suggest a better way of mounting a heat shield.
I'm all ears folks - all input and suggestions welcome - especially with pics!

blue87

iTrader: (2)

I have welded u shaped brackets to the shield itself and then run hose clamps through them around the pipe. You might be able to do that just after the v band on the down pipe. I was thinking of doing that and using the top two exhaust studs with an extra nut to cantilever a shield support off of. I have a lot more room than you though with lhd FD and only the 7076... Good luck and show us more pics along the way looking good.

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

^ Not a bad idea re the hose clamps on the down pipe, I might do something like that to cover the down pipe a bit more, but it already has a full overlap (so double thickness) of DEI Lava wrap so I'll see how it goes and monitor temps with my infra-red thingo now that the t-housing is covered up.
The LIm shield on mine is fastened to the exhaust studs too.

Was a bit apprehensive about doing it , but then just decided **** it gotta break a couple eggs ect.
Was awkward and my hands are shaky but i think its ok. Hopefully there's nothing hanging out on the inside, but dont think so cos I barely got any heat into the housing. The bungs were glowing though!
Think i might get me another sheet of this stuff though and make another neater one that wraps around the bottom of the T-housing a bit better but we'll see how this goes first.

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

Might look into getting a bit of Howard's mica sheet and somehow line the existing LIM heat shield with it - mosaic style. The Ceramic coating on the other turbo really was effective.

billyboy

You could just get more of the ACL sheet, recall a FD or two went that way making a "tunnel"...plenty of empty captive nuts on the body to attach shielding there. Seems exxy stuff for the size, turbo Falcon wrecker nearby?

Pyrotek here sell various 1100C insulations for foundrys, dunno whether they'd sell it as such, as it's virtually worth nothing in the quantities we use, they probably will give it to you if you're nearby. McMaster won't export btw. Those various braided and rubber hoses look very vulnerable!

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

^ Yeah the ACL style stuff is pretty good. Just took it for a drive, thing actually seems to go better, ripping skids all over the place, (it is a cooler day today though), but underbonnet temps were vastly improved just by covering up the T-housing. Can touch the shield with my fingers.
Waved my infra-red thermometre around the engine baywhen i got back just now - this is after idling down my street, opening the gate, ******* around for a couple minutes though, - 90c on the shield, about 120c on the CHRA, about 260 on the wrapped dump pipe, but that stuff gives funny readings - could touch it with my fingers - about 280 on the v-band clamp.

So yeah, its good stuff. might fork out another $60-odd for another sheet and tunnel the dump pipe like you say, and maybe do a MkII turbo shield that protects a bit more stuff underneath the turbo as well.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Hey man, don't mean to go off topic, but on the turbo comparison pic, what are the hotside housing of the TDX and EFR turbo?

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

Tdx61 -1.0
efr8374 -1.05

The efr is phisically bigger in all dimensions despite the similar A/Rs. Had to chop up my manifold and re-fab everything. to make it fit.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Exactly what I DONT want to do. I am running a T04S and with a 1.0 is SUPER TIGHT. Not that I will be buying an EFR anytime soon, but its good info to have for when the time comes

Thanks for the info

Glease Man

iTrader: (5)

I did something very similar for one of our customers. No issues at all. Used 309 filler rod.

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

^ that's good to hear. I'm actually pretty happy with it- it works well and is easy to remove and put back on.