artguy

this is by far the best thread of all time.

thanks guys

j

artguy

anyone else have experience with the msd kit?

what companies are making this kit besides aquamist?

I cant believe i was not running this system...Im putting it in.

my car is going for a heavy tuning session and its hard to trust a tuner other than yourself...if ya know what i mean.

thanks again for the input.

I plan on running 18-20lbs and if i am hearing correctly...i could do this on pump gas with the mysting system. true?

j

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

Aquamist has a new 2d kit, an upgrade to the 2c kit. Looks pretty neat.

Click on the '<' sign after the #806-009

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/frm-4.html

Ken

fastrotaries

thank you.........I try to bring positive and alternative things to make our engines more viable. This is old technology mixed w/ modern hardware.

RICE RACING

Yes we have come a long way, two years ago when I was talking about this on here people were laughing at me, reciting exertes from Corky Bell !

Funny thing is I still have my original block, those same people have sold their Turbo Rotaries or gone through multiple rebuilds due to them not being reliable under high power conditions on pump gas

I love the stuff To the point that I could not imagine running an engine without it, the science behind it is hard to dispute. And in my own little way, I have convinced myself that it works exceptionaly well from my long term test on my road car. Plain and simple it lets you do this that otherwise cannot be done any other way especialy when you consider that it is for FREE

WATER is there any better cheaper substance on earth ?

White_FC

Ok reading this thread has totally made my mind up for me to put some water injection on my car (a nearly running series 4 with a N/A engine that now has a turbo on it). So how much should I try to be injecting?
I was thinking about using a headlight washer pump/resivoir I know they don't hold alot of water, but they do allready have an inbuilt level sensor and I have one sitting here doing nothing.
any Ideas for how i could design it to only come on when i'm at WOT and its above a certain RPM?

Node

iTrader: (1)

White FC: you could use an RPM switch

Node

iTrader: (1)

I know you've probably posted this before, but what size tank do you use?
I saw you run 400ml/min@20psi and basically 12% of your fuel flow.
How often do you have to refill your water res.
I was thinking a great res for one would be the RHD (Jspec) washer reserve. (i think thats it, in front of the left wheel by the fuse box on the FC)

RICE RACING

My res is about 5lt in capacity (I'm not sure what that is in Gallons).

When cruising and using little boost I will easily get two tank fulls of fuel (100lt) out of one tank of water. I turn my water on at 2psi boost. My system is variable with boost pressure so the more boost pressure the more water flows, becasue of my boost curve this ratio tends to stay around the %12 to %20 ratio compared to the amount of fuel the engine demands. At WOT and revs from 5500rpm to 8500rpm the ratio of water to fuel currently is about %12 to %15. This type of system (boost pressurised with no pump) works nice and linear if your turbo boost is progressive and happens in the upper regions like mine. If not you will need some other type of system that will allow you to tune it or map the water curve just as you would a fuel curve for your motor, If you go much over %30 water to fuel ratio for any given point you will strike problems in that you will make less power and basically be using far to much water.

The best way is to if you can data log your engine on a road pulling from 2k to your red line and get the injector opening time for this rpm pull at WOT from 2k to 8k, from this it is easy to calculate out how much fuel your car is using at any give rpm and boost point. Once you are armed with this info, simply bench test your system so you get between %10 and %20 water flow for the conditions you want the WI to work over. do this by swithching on the system or pressurizing it (in my case) and measure the amount of fluid output in a minute into a measured container. You will soon see that if your car makes 20psi boost @ 3k rpm you will be injecting say 400cc at this point as well as at 6k, but you will see from your fuel injector log that you are using double the amount of fuel if not more at 6k, which in short means that you will most likley be injecting at a ratio of greater than %30 at these lower revs.

This is where you need a more advanced system, either of your own design of one like Kens (mapable aquamist) to match the characteristics of your engine.

If the system is mapped/setup well you will find that 5lt water capacity is good for the street and short distance races, on some race cars I have seen 12lt water tanks used while injecting at a ratio of %12 or there abouts. I would size it as one tenth of your fuel tank capacity, as this means that at an injection ratio of %15 you would be very hard pressed to use all the water before the time you need to next fill for fuel on the street, as the unit will not be injecting all the time, in a race car it is a different story depending on when you have the system set to turn on.

My big tip is map the system well to your engine requirements, and take the time to know these as it will show in your end result Dont just expect to "slap it on" with no set up as you will find the results disapointing, but it will stop detonation if you are injecting enough fluid. From my testing ratios below %7 or there abouts do not work well enough in higher HP applications, so please test your flow rate before install.

Node

iTrader: (1)

What about running an additional fuel injector? I'd assume that fuel injectors would work just fine with water.
Do you keep your reserve in your engine bay or in the hatch?

RICE RACING

Not sure? I have been asked that a few times, never tested it for long term effects, worth a try though as it would solve the mapping issues.

I keep the tank in the engine bay. (no real concern about engine bay temp)

Node

iTrader: (1)

I can't think of any long term problems that water would cause in a fuel injection system that fuel wouldn't cause as long as you keep it contaminant free

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

This is what I use for a water container:
http://flathat.woodstream.net/LUV94RX7/DVC00348.JPG

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...06&prmenbr=361

Number 547-250-005-01

Ken

Node

iTrader: (1)

Run the same fuel map, with a properly sized injector and have the water pump be turned on by a pressure switch.

White_FC

Hmm very interesting, I'll have to do some more brain storming tonight and see what ideas I can come up with on how to keep it at about a %12 ratio with the fuel...

Marcel Burkett

I read somewhere that normal F.I components are unsuitable for water injection because of the accelerated wear on these components , 'cause gasoline has lubricating properties that contribute to the life of these parts . If you want to use an injector that is designed for WI , you should concider the AQUAMIST HSV (high speed valve) it flows as much of 500mls @4bars and the coil resistance is about 13ohms so it can be easily connected to your existing system . you will also need a nozzle if you decide to go that way.

Freaky Monkey007

Is it possiable to make a system that you can turn on/off as well as run at a certin psi? Like say you are running low boost and have it tuned w/o water can you switch to high boost and have the water come on? Or would it just be better to tune it for water injection above a certin psi and keep it there instead of switchin from low-hi? Another question, can you have seperate maps for hi/low boost for fuel and everything? Sorry if this sounds really stupid to you guys.. I dont really understand all this and am trying to.

fastrotaries

Regular Fuel injectors won't work, but i think you could make the injectors used for Methanol or alcohol work though.

Node

iTrader: (1)

Should work if your computer can handle switching between multiple maps and handle water injection or triggering it.
The new haltechs (E11 and the ones to come) can handle multiple maps. I'm not sure if MoTeC's can handle switching between multiple maps.
And I mean this by holding 2 maps on the computer itself and not needing to load from a laptop or anything.

fastrotaries

but for now those of us who just got an E6K will stick to the more traditional method of injection.

Marcel Burkett

But why would you need multiple maps ?, you just need to tune certain points of you fuel and ignition maps for the WI , what I am saying is , if you like do a data log and see that you hit 15# at amout 4000rpm and you want to inject at that point , just tune for water at and above that point , when you are under that "cut in " point (in boost ) you should be running the tradition settings , also boost pressure is the best trigger to use for starting the injection , since you can pull to 7000rpm if you like with out making mush boost .
As for the switching idea , forget it , you WILL forget to turn it on some time and blow your motor to bits , just use a pressure switch to start things going at a pre set pressure (where ever you decide , normally 12-14psi) and it will operatein a fully automatic way .

RXTASY1

I just bought a Aquamist 2C to run with my Haltech E6K.
Has anybody successfully done this?
I'm having a problem figuring out how to control it with the E6K.
Somebody said to wire it to a injector wire, but wouldn't it run all the time if I did that?
I don't see a PWM for anything closely related to this?

ZoomZoom

iTrader: (2)

I am in the market for the aquamist kits. Any one have one the need to sell?

RageRace

I see alot of you are using water injection in correlation with the Haltec, is anyone out there using it with a PFC? Is it possible? Also can distilled H2O be used or does the H2O need to be more purified? This is a very informative thread that everyone who is posting should be proud of!!!

ZoomZoom

iTrader: (2)

I am buying the Aquamist 2D system and will be running it with the PFC. The unit I believe runs on its own and is tied in to work with injector pulse and boost pressure. It adds water as the pressure rises and can be set to come on at a specified boost level so its not just running out when your off throttle.